Jehovah Witnesses

[j_seph]

J_Seph
Why would you say he is wasting his time?

I did not say that.

 

[j_seph]

Go back to Matthew 24 and you will see that these are the words spoken to the disciples from Jesus

25 Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.
2 And five of them were wise, and five were foolish.
3 They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them:
4 But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.
5 While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept.
6 And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.
7 Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps.
8 And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out.
9 But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.
10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.
11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.
12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.
13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.
14 For the kingdom of heaven is as a man travelling into a far country, who called his own servants, and delivered unto them his goods.
15 And unto one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one; to every man according to his several ability; and straightway took his journey.
16 Then he that had received the five talents went and traded with the same, and made them other five talents.
17 And likewise he that had received two, he also gained other two.
18 But he that had received one went and digged in the earth, and hid his lord's money.
19 After a long time the lord of those servants cometh, and reckoneth with them.
20 And so he that had received five talents came and brought other five talents, saying, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me five talents: behold, I have gained beside them five talents more.
21 His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.
22 He also that had received two talents came and said, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me two talents: behold, I have gained two other talents beside them.
23 His lord said unto him, Well done, good and faithful servant; thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.
24 Then he which had received the one talent came and said, Lord, I knew thee that thou art an hard man, reaping where thou hast not sown, and gathering where thou hast not strawed:
25 And I was afraid, and went and hid thy talent in the earth: lo, there thou hast that is thine.
26 His lord answered and said unto him, Thou wicked and slothful servant, thou knewest that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I have not strawed:
27 Thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the exchangers, and then at my coming I should have received mine own with usury.
28 Take therefore the talent from him, and give it unto him which hath ten talents.
29 For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath.
30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

 

[kmh1031]

Sorry J_Seph
Read the poster wrong on cell phone.
Apologize

 

[Artfuldodger]

Go back to Matthew 24 and you will see that these are the words spoken to the disciples from Jesus

I wonder why verse 32 includes "nations?" "before him shall be gathered all nations"

 

[Artfuldodger]

Go back to Matthew 24 and you will see that these are the words spoken to the disciples from Jesus

One other thing that I've always struggled with is that this "division" of the sheep and goats is based on works. The sheep earned being sheep by feeding, helping, visiting, etc. The goats didn't do any works.

 

[j_seph]

I wonder why verse 32 includes "nations?" "before him shall be gathered all nations"

I would say that to me means that ALL will be judged

 

[j_seph]

One other thing that I've always struggled with is that this "division" of the sheep and goats is based on works. The sheep earned being sheep by feeding, helping, visiting, etc. The goats didn't do any works.

Psalms 100:3 - Know ye that the LORD he [is] God: [it is] he [that] hath made us, and not we ourselves; [we are] his people, and the sheep of his pasture

Reckon a good Shepard could tell the difference between goats and sheep? We are his sheep (those saved) those goats that do not belong in the flock are removed as they are not sheep.

 

[kmh1031]

Sorry
Love to respond and I will later, reading a little bit every once in awhile...
3 day meetings and dinner... great content though

 

[Artfuldodger]

Psalms 100:3 - Know ye that the LORD he [is] God: [it is] he [that] hath made us, and not we ourselves; [we are] his people, and the sheep of his pasture

Reckon a good Shepard could tell the difference between goats and sheep? We are his sheep (those saved) those goats that do not belong in the flock are removed as they are not sheep.

I try really hard to take works out of the salvation equation. I'm doing really good until I read verses like the sheep and goats which is all about works.

At the end of the age there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous for judgment: sheep and goats, wheat and weeds, good-doers and evil-doers, etc.

Why not just a resurrection of the saved vs the not saved?

 

[Artfuldodger]

I'm re-reading Matthew 24 and 25.

Matthew 24:12-13
12Because of the multiplication of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold. 13But the one who perseveres to the end will be saved.

How does the love of most grow cold but some persevere? Also noticed in Matthew 24 the destruction of Jerusalem. Then the Gospel goes out to all the nations and then the end comes.

What I'm trying to understand is at what point in Mattew 25/25 does the storyline change from Jerusalem to the World? Maybe verse 14;

And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

 

[Artfuldodger]

Well it didn't change in verse 14 because in 15 it's back to Jerusalem. The destruction was cut short to save the Elect.

Verse 30 goes back to the whole world or "all the tribes of the world." Then Jesus goes into the parables. So how do we know in these two chapters if it's Israel, all nations, or individuals from the whole world?

 

[Artfuldodger]

Moving on, "this generation will not pass away until all these things have happened."

The Son doesn't even know when it will happen, only the Father. Yet the Son is back in Heaven with the Father. Waiting for the word to return. Waiting on his Father to give the command.

It's going to take a lot of people by surprise.

What is it they must do to prepare? What must they do to heed this warning? Works? Persevere? Don't let your love grow cold? Feed the hungry? Help the sick?

Jesus is giving them a warning to prepare. If one is saved, what else must he do? Why do we need a warning to persevere?

 

[Artfuldodger]

Reading on in parables, it's always the evil ones that are thrown in the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

The whole message of these parables is a works based salvation. The one who beats his fellow servants and eats with drunkards. People who don't feed and help. The Shepard does know who his Sheep is and he gives the reason as to why they are Sheep. It's based on their actions.

46And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life." It doesn't sound like Jesus is talking about "imputed" righteousness in this parable either.

 

[j_seph]

Trying best I can here Art, when it talks about all nations/tribes and such. The way I understand that is that everyone on this planet (maybe even Mars if it has life LoL) will have heard of Jesus Christ and will have that opportunity to accept him. I understand that the Love growing cold. I know some people who can be the best people you know yet they will not accept Christ do not believe in him. Even though they are good people, they have not Christ and that Love we see will go away, where those with the Love of Christ in them will not grow cold. "You have Jesus in your heart"
Where it talks about vs 35 36 is how I understand it you accepted Christ.
Yes it will take folks by surprise, in the twinkling of an eye. We are not promised our next heartbeat.
What must you do, accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior, believe in him with all your heart. I do feel that works are being obedient and doing what God ask you to do, trying your best to walk in the tracks of Jesus not outside of them and knowing you will screw up but being quick to repent and not going back to your old way. I also feel that when we get out of his will and we are saved by his grace we will pay for our sins on this side.

Heard one of our church members the other day talking about when he was called to preach. He said no, ran from that calling for 5 years. Decided himself he would just be song leader, that is what HE wanted not what God called him to do. Go back to the Talents part of that scripture. He was leading choir one night and got choked on a life saver. Some how he managed to get that sucker swallowed down and immediately announced his preacher calling.

 

[Artfuldodger]

I guess the warnings to prepare for Christ's return then are for non-Christians? Yet in Matthew 24, the warnings are for Christians. Flee to the mountains, etc.

Persevere to the end sounds like a heed to Christians. The whole two chapters seems to be geared more for Christians to be ready, not non-Christians. Like no one really knows so we must all be ready.

Watch out that no one deceives you. Many will come and say the are Christ and deceive many. They will lead many astray. Many will be killed in the name of Christ and many will fall away. False prophets will mislead many. Isn't this a warning to Christians?

The love of many will grow cold but those that persevere to the end, will be saved.

16then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17Let no one on the housetop come down to retrieve anything from his house. 18And let no one in the field return for his cloak.

Again, it sounds like a warning for Christians.

 

[Artfuldodger]

Those "new" scrolls? The ones that will help us gain knowledge for the Judgement Day, after our resurrection. Where is it in scripture that says they will be available? If not in scripture, where did we find out about them?