Jesus Christ Is Not the Father or the Holy Gost
- Thread starter Banjo Picker
- Start date
Some people believe Jesus laid aside the use of his divine attributes and used the divine attributes of his Father.
Which technically meant he cease to be God while incarnate. He ceased to act in his Godly persona.
Jesus said "I do not seek my own will, but the will of Him who sent me."
John 3:34
For the one whom God has sent speaks the words of God, for God gives the Spirit without limit.
God then gives Jesus the Spirit without limit. So he's not exactly God but he might as well be. He's the image of his Father. Not the Father but the image of the Father. He is the one whom God sent. Jesus didn't send himself. Jesus doesn't perform his will. Jesus performs with the Spirit from God, the one who sent him.
Which technically meant he cease to be God while incarnate. He ceased to act in his Godly persona.
Jesus said "I do not seek my own will, but the will of Him who sent me."
John 3:34
For the one whom God has sent speaks the words of God, for God gives the Spirit without limit.
God then gives Jesus the Spirit without limit. So he's not exactly God but he might as well be. He's the image of his Father. Not the Father but the image of the Father. He is the one whom God sent. Jesus didn't send himself. Jesus doesn't perform his will. Jesus performs with the Spirit from God, the one who sent him.
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Let's look at what God did. Then we can look at what his Son did as well. First off, God gave his son, God sent his son.
John 3:16
For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.17For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through Him.
John 3:34
For the One whom God has sent speaks the words of God, for God gives the Spirit without limit.
John 5:36
"I have testimony weightier than that of John. For the works that the Father has given me to finish--the very works that I am doing--testify that the Father has sent me.
John 6:29
Jesus replied, "This is the work of God: to believe in the One He has sent."
John 6:38
For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but to do the will of Him who sent Me.
John 6:57
Just as the living Father sent Me and I live because of the Father, so also the one who feeds on Me will live because of Me.
Can we agree that God sent his Son? The Son didn't send himself. He may have preexisted in more than Word but he did not send himself.
John 3:16
For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.17For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through Him.
John 3:34
For the One whom God has sent speaks the words of God, for God gives the Spirit without limit.
John 5:36
"I have testimony weightier than that of John. For the works that the Father has given me to finish--the very works that I am doing--testify that the Father has sent me.
John 6:29
Jesus replied, "This is the work of God: to believe in the One He has sent."
John 6:38
For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but to do the will of Him who sent Me.
John 6:57
Just as the living Father sent Me and I live because of the Father, so also the one who feeds on Me will live because of Me.
Can we agree that God sent his Son? The Son didn't send himself. He may have preexisted in more than Word but he did not send himself.
Let's continue with what God did to and through the Son.
Acts 10:38
how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and power, and how he went around doing good and healing all who were under the power of the devil, because God was with him.
Acts 2:22
“Men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, a man attested to you by God with mighty works and wonders and signs that God did through him in your midst, as you yourselves know.
Mark 2:10
But I want you to know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins." So he said to the man,
Matthew 28:18
Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.
1 Corinthians 15:27
For he "has put everything under his feet." Now when it says that "everything" has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ.
"Everything but God himself who put everything under Christ."
God gave, sent, anointed, gave authority, and healed others to and through Christ. Christ was an exact image of God. If you saw Jesus, you saw the Father.
Yet it was God himself that sent his Son and gave him authority and anointed him with His Spirit.
The Son did not send himself. The Son did not anoint himself. The Son did not heal with his own divine attributes. The Son did the will of his Father.
Acts 10:38
how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and power, and how he went around doing good and healing all who were under the power of the devil, because God was with him.
Acts 2:22
“Men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, a man attested to you by God with mighty works and wonders and signs that God did through him in your midst, as you yourselves know.
Mark 2:10
But I want you to know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins." So he said to the man,
Matthew 28:18
Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.
1 Corinthians 15:27
For he "has put everything under his feet." Now when it says that "everything" has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ.
"Everything but God himself who put everything under Christ."
God gave, sent, anointed, gave authority, and healed others to and through Christ. Christ was an exact image of God. If you saw Jesus, you saw the Father.
Yet it was God himself that sent his Son and gave him authority and anointed him with His Spirit.
The Son did not send himself. The Son did not anoint himself. The Son did not heal with his own divine attributes. The Son did the will of his Father.
What did Jesus do. That's a little harder to answer. Can any of us do much without God? He resisted temptation. He prayed to God. He got angry. He wept. He got hungry and thirsty. He learned as a child.
He died a painful physical death. He was forsaken by God if only for a short while.
Luke 22:42-44 “Father, if you are willing, take this cup from me; yet not my will, but yours be done.” An angel from heaven appeared to him and strengthened him. And being in anguish, he prayed more earnestly, and his sweat was like drops of blood falling to the ground.
Who sent the angel to strengthen Jesus?
He died a painful physical death. He was forsaken by God if only for a short while.
Luke 22:42-44 “Father, if you are willing, take this cup from me; yet not my will, but yours be done.” An angel from heaven appeared to him and strengthened him. And being in anguish, he prayed more earnestly, and his sweat was like drops of blood falling to the ground.
Who sent the angel to strengthen Jesus?
two different things,
John 3:6
That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
God is a Spirit.. a body thou has prepared
Heb 10:5
¶
Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
John 3:6
That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
God is a Spirit.. a body thou has prepared
Heb 10:5
¶
Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
I'm not sure Hebrews 10:5 says that Jesus' body was the body of God.
Therefore, when Christ came into the world, he said: "Sacrifice and offering you did not desire, but a body you prepared for me;
God prepared a body for Christ. If one believes we are pre-existng spirits in more than Word, then this should be easy to see.
Therefore, when Christ came into the world, he said: "Sacrifice and offering you did not desire, but a body you prepared for me;
God prepared a body for Christ. If one believes we are pre-existng spirits in more than Word, then this should be easy to see.
Bible says that God is not man'
'God is not a man’ (Numbers 23:19)
‘For I am God, and not man’ (Hosea 11:9)
Maybe this was because it was written before he became a man. Maybe because God is Spirit.
So what is John 3:6 saying about Jesus? What does it say about us?
What does Jesus have that we can't attain? Can we become like him when we see him as he is? Will we become adopted children and heirs of this Kingdom Jesus speaks of. Is this spiritual or physical?
We are adopted children of God. We have the Holy Spirit. We are progressing to be more like Christ. We can pick up some of those attributes.
We can't complete the journey as of yet;
1 John 3:2
Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when Christ appears, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is.
The man Jesus? The God Jesus? The Trinity Jesus? God as Jesus? Exactly how will we see Jesus? Physically? Spiritually?
God is Spirit. Man is flesh. We must be born from above.
'God is not a man’ (Numbers 23:19)
‘For I am God, and not man’ (Hosea 11:9)
Maybe this was because it was written before he became a man. Maybe because God is Spirit.
So what is John 3:6 saying about Jesus? What does it say about us?
What does Jesus have that we can't attain? Can we become like him when we see him as he is? Will we become adopted children and heirs of this Kingdom Jesus speaks of. Is this spiritual or physical?
We are adopted children of God. We have the Holy Spirit. We are progressing to be more like Christ. We can pick up some of those attributes.
We can't complete the journey as of yet;
1 John 3:2
Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when Christ appears, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is.
The man Jesus? The God Jesus? The Trinity Jesus? God as Jesus? Exactly how will we see Jesus? Physically? Spiritually?
God is Spirit. Man is flesh. We must be born from above.
We (they) shall see as He is ....God
God who became the son of man will be shown to us clearly. not a physical existance, but as all are in Heaven.
The physical is limited to the universe made for us, the bad guys . When we are redeemed we can know Him as He is... God.
Then, We shall know as we are known.
God who became the son of man will be shown to us clearly. not a physical existance, but as all are in Heaven.
The physical is limited to the universe made for us, the bad guys . When we are redeemed we can know Him as He is... God.
Then, We shall know as we are known.
I thought we could have the Father and the Son. Even from a Trinity perspective, the Son stays the Son and the Father stays the Father after the Son hands over the Kingdom. He then sits at the right hand of his Father.
Now even if this is spiritually, he is at the right hand of his Father. I'm not saying that it's not a spiritual kingdom we end up in but Jesus is at the right hand of his Father. He stays the Son. He continues as the Son.
Maybe this is the human part of Jesus that does this. Jesus was also 100% man. This part of Jesus could be the part that sits at the right hand of God. The part that resurrected. The part that ascended. The part that will return with the saints. The part that was given authority to rule and judge. The part that will turn over the kingdom to his Father. That part, the man part, which still could be spiritual, will sit at the right hand of God.
Now even if this is spiritually, he is at the right hand of his Father. I'm not saying that it's not a spiritual kingdom we end up in but Jesus is at the right hand of his Father. He stays the Son. He continues as the Son.
Maybe this is the human part of Jesus that does this. Jesus was also 100% man. This part of Jesus could be the part that sits at the right hand of God. The part that resurrected. The part that ascended. The part that will return with the saints. The part that was given authority to rule and judge. The part that will turn over the kingdom to his Father. That part, the man part, which still could be spiritual, will sit at the right hand of God.
Even if God incarnate, Jesus was incarnate as a human man. That is more than just flesh. He was 100% man. He was born with everything I have.
Now he may have had more in relation to divinity but he definitely had a human soul.
If Christ didn’t have a human soul, He wasn’t fully human. If Christ didn’t assume a human soul, He didn’t redeem human souls. If Christ didn’t have a human soul, He couldn’t suffer or die. He had to be capable of sin. He had to take on our sin.
1 Peter 3:18
For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit, 19So he went and preached to the spirits in prison-
This part of Jesus that was still Jesus and separate from his Father's did this.
Again, maybe this was his human soul or spirit.
Now he may have had more in relation to divinity but he definitely had a human soul.
If Christ didn’t have a human soul, He wasn’t fully human. If Christ didn’t assume a human soul, He didn’t redeem human souls. If Christ didn’t have a human soul, He couldn’t suffer or die. He had to be capable of sin. He had to take on our sin.
1 Peter 3:18
For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit, 19So he went and preached to the spirits in prison-
This part of Jesus that was still Jesus and separate from his Father's did this.
Again, maybe this was his human soul or spirit.
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Somewhat related and as we discussed, let's assume like Jesus that we preexisted. We can see that perhaps as spirits we also had gender. Jesus was a Son. So if his or our pre-existance is true, or Jesus pre-existed, spirits have gender. Jesus didn't become the Son at his incarnation, he already was the Son. This is a basic Trinity belief.
I would assume that once we get to the afterlife we will still be either adopted sons or daughters even as spirits.
Whatever Jesus was before he came to the earth, his body was still created just as ours was. He became a male human.
Just how far can one loose who they were as a human once their spirit leaves their body, I don't know. I would venture to bet Jesus is still the Son of God today in Heaven even if he no longer has a human body.
The Trinity is still in place. It didn't change to a Oneness once the Son ascended.
Was it a Oneness until Jesus came to the earth and it changed to a Trinity until he ascended and now it's back to a Oneness? I don't think so.
I would assume that once we get to the afterlife we will still be either adopted sons or daughters even as spirits.
Whatever Jesus was before he came to the earth, his body was still created just as ours was. He became a male human.
Just how far can one loose who they were as a human once their spirit leaves their body, I don't know. I would venture to bet Jesus is still the Son of God today in Heaven even if he no longer has a human body.
The Trinity is still in place. It didn't change to a Oneness once the Son ascended.
Was it a Oneness until Jesus came to the earth and it changed to a Trinity until he ascended and now it's back to a Oneness? I don't think so.
Acts 7:55
But Stephen, full of the Holy Spirit, looked up to heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God.
There is only one throne in Heaven and God sits on it. Jesus sits at his right hand. Eventually Jesus will return his Kingdom to his Father and once again be at his Father's right hand.
This happened at his ascension.
Ephesians 1:20-23
that raised Christ from the dead and seated him in the place of honor at God's right hand in the heavenly realms.21 Now he is far above any ruler or authority or power or leader or anything else--not only in this world but also in the world to come.22And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church,
Maybe this is the human part of Jesus sitting at the right hand. The human spirit. The human soul. I guess one could believe he parked his body at the gates of Heaven if one doens't believe Heaven to be a physical place.
Still no matter how you look at it spiritual or physical, Jesus is sitting next to his Father. He's got to be somewhere. He was a man even if God. Once he became a man, he picked up a human soul/spirit along with a body.
All of that human part of Jesus has to be somewhere even if it is just spiritual. I don't have a problem believing that it is just spiritual but still the man Jesus, the Son Jesus has to be somewhere.
But Stephen, full of the Holy Spirit, looked up to heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God.
There is only one throne in Heaven and God sits on it. Jesus sits at his right hand. Eventually Jesus will return his Kingdom to his Father and once again be at his Father's right hand.
This happened at his ascension.
Ephesians 1:20-23
that raised Christ from the dead and seated him in the place of honor at God's right hand in the heavenly realms.21 Now he is far above any ruler or authority or power or leader or anything else--not only in this world but also in the world to come.22And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church,
Maybe this is the human part of Jesus sitting at the right hand. The human spirit. The human soul. I guess one could believe he parked his body at the gates of Heaven if one doens't believe Heaven to be a physical place.
Still no matter how you look at it spiritual or physical, Jesus is sitting next to his Father. He's got to be somewhere. He was a man even if God. Once he became a man, he picked up a human soul/spirit along with a body.
All of that human part of Jesus has to be somewhere even if it is just spiritual. I don't have a problem believing that it is just spiritual but still the man Jesus, the Son Jesus has to be somewhere.
