Jesus Christ Is Not the Father or the Holy Gost

Thread starter #103
I think most Trinitarians would agree that Jesus is the name given to the second person of the Godhead when he became a man.

The only ones that believe the Father became Jesus are of the Oneness belief.

What was the second person of the Godhead known as before his incarnation? Son perhaps? Christ?
TRINITY. This means the union of three persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit in one (unified) Godhead or divinity, so that all three persons are one in unity and eternal substance, but three separate and distinct persons as to individuality (1 John 5:7, 8; Dan. 7:9-14; Matt. 3:16, 17; 28:19; Acts 7:56-59).
 
Thread starter #104
Jesus Christ Is Not the Father or the Holy Ghost

The Bible never speaks of the Father dying, but it does say that the Son died (Rom. 5:10; Heb. 6:6; John 3:16-18). The Son died in the same sense that other men die--the inner man left the outer man (James 2:26). This proves that the Father and the Son were two separate persons.
 
Thread starter #105
Jesus was "the only begotten of the Father" and "his only begotten Son," and He had to be separate persons from the Father in order to be begotten by the Father, and the Father had to be a separate person from Jesus in order to beget Him (John 1:4, 18; 3:16-18; 31-36; 1 John 5:1). No person can beget himself, or be begotten by himself, and no person can be his own father or son. Neither can any person beget part of himself , or be begotten by part of himself.
 
Jesus was "the only begotten of the Father" and "his only begotten Son," and He had to be separate persons from the Father in order to be begotten by the Father, and the Father had to be a separate person from Jesus in order to beget Him (John 1:4, 18; 3:16-18; 31-36; 1 John 5:1). No person can beget himself, or be begotten by himself, and no person can be his own father or son. Neither can any person beget part of himself , or be begotten by part of himself.
But you do believe these three separate persons are a part of the one God, correct? The unity of the three separate persons is still just one God, right?
 
Thread starter #107
Many statements in the gospel of John prove that Jesus did not claim to be the Father, but He did say that God was His Father and His God (John 5:8-45; 10:18-36; 14:28; 20:17; Rev. 3:12); that God worked only through Him, and that He COULD DO NOTHING OF HIMSELF (John 5:19, 30); that He not only COULD NOT, but that He DID NOT DO ANYTHING OF HIMSELF (John 5:30; 6:38; 8:28; 12:49, 50); that He did only the Father's will and live BY THE FATHER, as men are to do His will and live BY HIM (John 6:57); and that the work of God was to believe on the whom the Father had sent (John 6:29; 5:18; 8:54; 14:1).

He said that His doctrine was not His, but the Father's (John 7:16, 17; 8:26, 38; 10:18; 12:49, 50; 14:10, 11; 17:8, 14) and that if anyone would do the will of God he should know that He did not come to SPEAK OF HIMSELF, but that he spoke of the Father who had sent Him (John 7:16-18).

He claimed that His message was true because He did not SPEAK OF HIMSELF but that He spoke of the Father (John7:18; 5:30-38; 14:10, 11), that He spoke only what He had HEARD FROM THE FATHER (John 8:26-28, 38-40), that He taught BY THE FATHER and that His teaching was not of Himself (John 8:28), that He did not PLEASE HIMSELF, but He lived to please the Father (John 8:29), that He was the "Son" of the house and not the "Father" of it (John 8:35, 36; Heb. 3:6), and that He had THE SAME RELATION TO THE FATHER that the Jews had to their father the devil (John 8:16, 35-44; 9:4).
 
Many statements in the gospel of John prove that Jesus did not claim to be the Father, but He did say that God was His Father and His God (John 5:8-45; 10:18-36; 14:28; 20:17; Rev. 3:12); that God worked only through Him, and that He COULD DO NOTHING OF HIMSELF (John 5:19, 30); that He not only COULD NOT, but that He DID NOT DO ANYTHING OF HIMSELF (John 5:30; 6:38; 8:28; 12:49, 50); that He did only the Father's will and live BY THE FATHER, as men are to do His will and live BY HIM (John 6:57); and that the work of God was to believe on the whom the Father had sent (John 6:29; 5:18; 8:54; 14:1).

He said that His doctrine was not His, but the Father's (John 7:16, 17; 8:26, 38; 10:18; 12:49, 50; 14:10, 11; 17:8, 14) and that if anyone would do the will of God he should know that He did not come to SPEAK OF HIMSELF, but that he spoke of the Father who had sent Him (John 7:16-18).

He claimed that His message was true because He did not SPEAK OF HIMSELF but that He spoke of the Father (John7:18; 5:30-38; 14:10, 11), that He spoke only what He had HEARD FROM THE FATHER (John 8:26-28, 38-40), that He taught BY THE FATHER and that His teaching was not of Himself (John 8:28), that He did not PLEASE HIMSELF, but He lived to please the Father (John 8:29), that He was the "Son" of the house and not the "Father" of it (John 8:35, 36; Heb. 3:6), and that He had THE SAME RELATION TO THE FATHER that the Jews had to their father the devil (John 8:16, 35-44; 9:4).
In your own words how do you view this Father and Son relationship? If the Father was the God of the Son, the Son did nothing but the will of his Father, and was only spreading the message of his Father, was he in fact God the Son?
 
Thread starter #109
He taught that He, Himself, honored the Father as all men should (John 8:49); that He did not seek HIS OWN GLORY, but that there was "one" (not Himself, but ANOTHER the Father) that honored Him and sought His glory (John 8:50, 54; 12:26-28; 14:12-15; 17:1-5, 10); that He and the Father knew each other, but they were not each other (John 8:55; 10:15); that the Father loved Him for His unselfishness (it takes two people to love and be loved, (John 10:17, 18); that He had received commandments from the Father, and they were not His own (John 10:18; 12:49, 50; 15:10); and that the Father gave Him His disciples (John 10:29; 17:1-25).He further claimed that He was equal to the Father as to deity and some things, but not equal in other things (Mark 13:32; John 5:17-39; 8:13-19, 29-42; 19:18, 24-29; Acts 1:7; 1 Cor. 11:3; Rev. 1:1); that He was not a "Spirit" being like His Father (Luke 24:39; John 4:24; Phil. 3:21); that He and the Father were in each other (united as one) in the same sense He and the believers were one (John 10:38; 14:10, 11, 23; 17:11, 21-23; 2 Cor. 5:17); and that He was the only way to the Father (John14:6). Such simple language as that in all the above-listed passages cannot be understood except in connection with two separate persons.
 
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