Leading atheist defends aborting babies with Down's syndrome

https://www.premier.org.uk/News/UK/...Down-s-syndrome-on-Premier-s-Big-Conversation

In the absence of a Moral Law Giver this is where pragmaticism takes you. The ideology of Nietzsche and Hitler are alive and well in our Western institutions.
SFD, when will you grow up and stop your nonsense? So some atheist is a jerk. It can be countered with examples of jerks who also happen to be Christians (and every other belief or non belief affiliation).
If you need to assert that this particular jerk's actions are because of the lack of a moral law giver...then you need to explain why believers in the Christian God are just as big a jerks for doing and saying similar things being they believe in a moral law giver. And explain how if in fact there is a moral law giver, why isnt it capable of getting its morals through to people who believe and do not belive in it.
Maybe this guy who is a jerk and christians who are equally jerks is in fact because there is no ultimate moral law giver. You are making your own case against yourself.
 

ambush80

Senior Member
When my brother and sister in law had invitro fertilization done they fertilized some number of eggs, I think maybe a dozen. If they had found that one of them had downs syndrome and decided not to implant it and have it destroyed is that murder? How about the rest of the eggs that they didn't use? If they had them destroyed are each one of those little murders too?
 

Spotlite

Senior Member
It can be countered with examples of jerks who also happen to be Christians.
It usually is used as an argument against Christianity........due to an action of jerk(s).

The difference is we get accused of being “better” or saying they didn’t “do it right” when we condemn the jerk.
 
https://www.premier.org.uk/News/UK/...Down-s-syndrome-on-Premier-s-Big-Conversation

In the absence of a Moral Law Giver this is where pragmaticism takes you. The ideology of Nietzsche and Hitler are alive and well in our Western institutions.
I almost hope there is a judgement after death solely for guys like SFD to have to answer for all the time they spend pointing fingers at others for doing the same things they spend a lifetime doing themselves.
I'd love to see your highlight reel SFD.
You are a Christian by self appointment only.
 
It usually is used as an argument against Christianity........due to an action of jerk(s).

The difference is we get accused of being “better” or saying they didn’t “do it right” when we condemn the jerk.
For good reason. I have not found one religious person that is any better morally or otherwise than anyone else.

I always used to shake my head at all the people in church who are raising their hands and singing the praises to Jesus, who are reciting scripture and wagging their fingers at others on Sundays, are/were the same people sleeping around on their spouses, lying, cheating, being raunchy, racist, and acting like the moral dredges of society every other day of the week.
 
Thread starter #7
I almost hope there is a judgement after death solely for guys like SFD to have to answer for all the time they spend pointing fingers at others for doing the same things they spend a lifetime doing themselves.
I'd love to see your highlight reel SFD.
You are a Christian by self appointment only.
Well I see you didn’t waste any time debating the premise and went straight to denigrating me. BTW Peter Singer, THE PETER SINGER,is not just some hot headed jerk. What he said was not to shock or grab headlines. He said it because honesatheist like he and Dawkins realize those are the logical conclusions one has to conclude given: “No God/ No Moral Law Giver”.

As for my “highlight reels”, you are correct. I am the lowest of the low. That’s why I’m so grateful to CHrist. All my salvation rest in him alone.
 
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Spotlite

Senior Member
For good reason. I have not found one religious person that is any better morally or otherwise than anyone else.

I always used to shake my head at all the people in church who are raising their hands and singing the praises to Jesus, who are reciting scripture and wagging their fingers at others on Sundays, are/were the same people sleeping around on their spouses, lying, cheating, being raunchy, racist, and acting like the moral dredges of society every other day of the week.
I can agree with you here. Just curious if you can agree with me in regard to your original comment that I quoted in regard to jerks, that these folks don’t represent a group of anything. I ask that with particular attention to the “good reason” comment.
 
Well I see you didn’t waste any time debating the premise and went straight to denigrating me. BTW Peter Singer, THE PETER SINGER,is not just some hot headed jerk. What he said was not to shock or grab headlines. He said it because honesatheist like he and Dawkins realize those are the logical conclusions one has to conclude given: “No God/ No Moral Law Giver”.
If there is a moral giver as you said we would all have the same morals. They would be universal.
If there is no moral law giver the morals would be as they are. Varying and changing as needed.
 

ambush80

Senior Member
Well I see you didn’t waste any time debating the premise and went straight to denigrating me. BTW Peter Singer, THE PETER SINGER,is not just some hot headed jerk. What he said was not to shock or grab headlines. He said it because honesatheist like he and Dawkins realize those are the logical conclusions one has to conclude given: “No God/ No Moral Law Giver”.

Let's play a game. Imagine that we just got poofed up on a planet, maybe 30 of us, men women and children and we didn't have any moral code. Do you think that we might come up with one? Would we descend into chaos and kill eat and rape each other? Would we learn to work with each other for our mutual benefit? Would we all just spread out, only grouping with our immediate families?
 
I can agree with you here. Just curious if you can agree with me in regard to your original comment that I quoted in regard to jerks, that these folks don’t represent a group of anything. I ask that with particular attention to the “good reason” comment.
Like in everything the bottom line is individuals like to lump themselves in with larger groups but we are responsible for what we do or say individually.
Is anyone really a Christian or Atheist, or Muslim or Cowboys fan??.."We" is so broad that it is meaningless. Nothing can specifically define All because every individual is so different from the next.

I am jerk for calling out another for being a jerk. We are all jerks siding with other jerks who together convince themselves that others are even bigger, worse or different jerks.
 
Well I see you didn’t waste any time debating the premise and went straight to denigrating me. BTW Peter Singer, THE PETER SINGER,is not just some hot headed jerk. What he said was not to shock or grab headlines. He said it because honesatheist like he and Dawkins realize those are the logical conclusions one has to conclude given: “No God/ No Moral Law Giver”.

As for my “highlight reels”, you are correct. I am the lowest of the low. That’s why I’m so grateful to CHrist. All my salvation rest in him alone.
We have done this conversation ten times before. That's why I cut to the chase.

You are the typical Christian so don't feel so bad. You absolutely need something beyond this planet to hang your hopes in order to deal with the past and reality now.
Good for you but I suggest making good with people you have wronged now instead of hoping it happens after you are dead later. You'll feel better and won't have to constantly bring up things that have been throughly talked about ten times over. Your immoral atheist schtick has worn thin.
 
Thread starter #13
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For good reason. I have not found one religious person that is any better morally or otherwise than anyone else.
Well to be fair you haven’t found any evidence of God yet either, despite living in a universe created by him, using intelligence and communication only attributable to him, living a “life” upheld solely by his will, so one has to wonder just how acute your perception is.
 
For good reason. I have not found one religious person that is any better morally or otherwise than anyone else.

I always used to shake my head at all the people in church who are raising their hands and singing the praises to Jesus, who are reciting scripture and wagging their fingers at others on Sundays, are/were the same people sleeping around on their spouses, lying, cheating, being raunchy, racist, and acting like the moral dredges of society every other day of the week.
Which great Athesist was is it that said these acts are immoral ? Many cultures embrace these acts !
 
Thread starter #15
We have done this conversation ten times before. That's why I cut to the chase.
You’re right. IT always ends in denigration when you won’t accept what is patently obvious to believers and atheist alike. Guess I should be grateful for you saving me the time and cutting right to the denigration.
 
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Thread starter #16
We have done this conversation ten times before. That's why I cut to the chase.

You are the typical Christian so don't feel so bad. You absolutely need something beyond this planet to hang your hopes in order to deal with the past and reality now.
Good for you but I suggest making good with people you have wronged now instead of hoping it happens after you are dead later. You'll feel better and won't have to constantly bring up things that have been throughly talked about ten times over. Your immoral atheist schtick has worn thin.
It’s not mine. Take it up with Dawkins and Singer if you find it immoral. They will tell you flat out evolution and atheism have no accommodation for morals beyond what is pragmatic. You just don’t like their answers.[/QUOTE]
 
Thread starter #17
When my brother and sister in law had invitro fertilization done they fertilized some number of eggs, I think maybe a dozen. If they had found that one of them had downs syndrome and decided not to implant it and have it destroyed is that murder? How about the rest of the eggs that they didn't use? If they had them destroyed are each one of those little murders too?
I’m not God, and I won’t pretend to know his will as far as this goes. That said, I believe life begins at conception and every one of those fertilized eggs that was destroyed is murder. I work in medicine and there’s a maxim I follow: “Just because you can do something, doesn’t necessarily mean you should.”
 

ambush80

Senior Member
I’m not God, and I won’t pretend to know his will as far as this goes. That said, I believe life begins at conception and every one of those fertilized eggs that was destroyed is murder. I work in medicine and there’s a maxim I follow: “Just because you can do something, doesn’t necessarily mean you should.”
Why don't you know His will on this one but know exactly what His will is concerning other things? Why should this one be harder to figure out than any other question about His will?
 

WaltL1

Senior Member
https://www.premier.org.uk/News/UK/...Down-s-syndrome-on-Premier-s-Big-Conversation

In the absence of a Moral Law Giver this is where pragmaticism takes you. The ideology of Nietzsche and Hitler are alive and well in our Western institutions.
In a survey released Monday that was sponsored by the pregnancy center support organization Care Net, researchers from the Christian research group LifeWay found that about 70 percent of women who had an abortion self-identified as Christians, while 43 percent say they attended a Christian church at least once per month or more at the time they aborted their child.
christianpost.com
 
Thread starter #20
Why don't you know His will on this one but know exactly what His will is concerning other things? Why should this one be harder to figure out than any other question about His will?
Well I guess to know his complete will I would have to be God. I know his will for me and that is enough.
 
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