Leading atheist defends aborting babies with Down's syndrome

They're the rudiments of morality. They're the impulses that were the origins for moral codes. Mix in a bit of overcrowding and free time and you get all the common and diverse moral codes we have today.
Rudimentary is the perfect term. I see what you mean now.
 

Israel

Senior Member
He should learn the utility, the positive effects, of trying to minimize the needless suffering of conscious creatures.
There you go!
See how simple!
Welcome to the school of Christ!

"If you know these things...happy are you if you do them"
 

Israel

Senior Member
I'll bedazzle with bull at times but I'm still me.
I am jerk for calling out another for being a jerk. We are all jerks siding with other jerks who together convince themselves that others are even bigger, worse or different jerks.
Yikes...does that make me crazy for thinking sanity had gripped you in such eloquence?

If that was the start of a book...I'd find it a real page turner!
 
Yikes...does that make me crazy for thinking sanity had gripped you in such eloquence?

If that was the start of a book...I'd find it a real page turner!
Sadly, it is a one page book.
$19.95 plus seperate S&H

But wait, there's more...
 

Israel

Senior Member
Sadly, it is a one page book.
$19.95 plus seperate S&H

But wait, there's more...
Huh? Not a RONCO slicer/dicer/mincer/choppermatic with chrome wheels and AM/FM stereo receiver built in too? With the manicure and pedicure attachments?

And just in time for the holidays!

Put me down for 3!
 

Israel

Senior Member
and here I am preparing a special place for it!






jerk.jpg
 
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Spotlite

Senior Member
By being more vocal about one kind of sin (homosexuality) than you are about another kind of sin (killing embryos for invitro fertilization).
Embryo??? You mean the “baby” that is like a couple of weeks after fertilization??

No, we don’t promote abortion.
 
Huh? Not a RONCO slicer/dicer/mincer/choppermatic with chrome wheels and AM/FM stereo receiver built in too? With the manicure and pedicure attachments?

And just in time for the holidays!

Put me down for 3!
Will do buddy!
 

ambush80

Senior Member
Embryo??? You mean the “baby” that is like a couple of weeks after fertilization??

No, we don’t promote abortion.
Do you think that destroying extra embryos produced form the process of invitro or experimenting on them in a way that results in their death should be called abortion?
 

Spotlite

Senior Member
Do you think that destroying extra embryos produced form the process of invitro or experimenting on them in a way that results in their death should be called abortion?
I don’t claim to be a reproductive expert by any means, but based on my understanding, you don’t have an embryo until after fertilization?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embryo

In vitro is the process of fertilization in a tube, etc.?

Based on my understanding of this, yes I feel that destroying an embryo is the same as abortion. If I am misunderstanding, I’m willing to listen and then decide.
 

ambush80

Senior Member
I don’t claim to be a reproductive expert by any means, but based on my understanding, you don’t have an embryo until after fertilization?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embryo

In vitro is the process of fertilization in a tube, etc.?

Based on my understanding of this, yes I feel that destroying an embryo is the same as abortion. If I am misunderstanding, I’m willing to listen and then decide.
I have no argument against calling a fertilized egg "alive", or "a person". In that sense we are in complete agreement about what it is. My argument is about what kind of rights it has.
 

Spotlite

Senior Member
I have no argument against calling a fertilized egg "alive", or "a person". In that sense we are in complete agreement about what it is. My argument is about what kind of rights it has.
Gotcha. It is my opinion that if it’s alive, it has a right to live.

If we based it on evolution; the process in which a living thing reproduces another living thing, there isn’t a space or gap of “not living” in that process?
 

ambush80

Senior Member
Gotcha. It is my opinion that if it’s alive, it has a right to live.

If we based it on evolution; the process in which a living thing reproduces another living thing, there isn’t a space or gap of “not living” in that process?

That principle isn't linked to evolution specifically. It's linked to biology, which evolution draws heavily from, but I'll not quibble on a point that we agree on.

Are you interested in discussing what kinds of rights patents have in regards to their children or what kinds of rights children have at different ages?
 
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Spotlite

Senior Member
That principle isn't linked to evolution specifically. It's linked to biology, which evolution draws heavily from, but I'll not quibble on a poit that we agree on.

Are you interested in discussing what kinds of rights patents have in regards to their children or what kinds of rights children have at different ages?
I’m just generally speaking in terms of life reproducing life. I realize the egg / sperm soon dies without fertilization, but once fertilization happens, it’s then a beginning.

As far as rights at different stages, they can be very opinionated. It’s my opinion that the right to live begins when life begins. for me it’s fertilization.
 

Israel

Senior Member
Discussing what a right is could be first necessary.
 

WaltL1

Senior Member
I’m just generally speaking in terms of life reproducing life. I realize the egg / sperm soon dies without fertilization, but once fertilization happens, it’s then a beginning.

As far as rights at different stages, they can be very opinionated. It’s my opinion that the right to live begins when life begins. for me it’s fertilization.
That's a pretty solid position to take. It eliminates all the technical questions that I wrestle with concerning abortion.
 

Spotlite

Senior Member
That's a pretty solid position to take. It eliminates all the technical questions that I wrestle with concerning abortion.
I agree, Walt. I once got caught up in the tangled jungle of technical questions and realized that the only thing that was solid is if we leave this fertilized cell alone it will continue to develop through time to become a senior citizen. The second we destroy it, or nature itself ends it, it is no longer “living” at whatever stage it’s in and the development process is over.
 
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