Let's Talk Spikes

[Jim McRae]

Fri PM, I was sitting in one of my bow stands w/ my muzzle loader, a white oaks dropping nearby. About deerthirty, a huge spike walks out in front of me, about 40 yards walking right to left. First thing I thought of was, he looked like an older deer, and he had 12 inch spikes. Belly saged a little and his face appeared kind of long. Now this property has a tendancy to produce a lot of spikes that look identical to this deer and I've got trailcam pictures to back this up. Well, in short, I dropped him in his tracks. Now what were the chances that this deer would have reached trophy status, he was at least 2 1/2 yrs. old and weighed in at 150 lbs. What'd you guys think?



Jim M.

 

[willbuck]

Sounds like bad genes. I would say zero chance and did what you did - take him out of the general population. IMO

 

[PHIL M]

If he was a 2 1/2 year old or older, he probably didnt have trophy potential. there is probably a management plan to fix the spike problem. Im sure that shooting older spikes would be a part of it. from what I have read. spikes are a result of buck fawns being born late in the year. so it may be possible that you have a over population of does. (does are being bred during the second or third estrous cycle)

 

[GeauxLSU]

I've read studies that 'conclusively' state that spikes will likely stay spikes and others that equally 'ensure' that spikes could be 8 pointers the very next year and then be 4 pointers the next. :
I'd venture that shooting a 2 1/2 year old spike is not a bad thing (neutral at worse). It will taste just as good as (probably better than) a trophy rack.
Hunt/fish safely,
Phil

 

[HayBurner]

How would you guys handle this in a four on one side county. :
Do you think you would shoot an illegal deer to get him out of the gene pool.
HB

 

[seminoleslayer]

A Spike Is Not Always A Spike.what If He Was Born Late The First Yr Then Had A Drought The Next Yr So Browse Quality Was Poor.i Would Work On My Summer Plantings If You Have Alot Of Spikes.co Rules Say 4 On One Side Means 4 On One Side But Let A Freak Walk By Me And Its Brown On The Ground.

 

[PHIL M]

I dont guess there is much you can do in that situation. we take alot of does of of our place. probably on average 8 does per 1 buck. I dont know if it has anything to do with it or not, but we rarely see spikes on our place. maybe 1 a year. most of the time the young bucks are 4 or 6 pts.we have even seen a few 1 1/2 year old 8 pts.

 

[FootLongDawg]

Very good question Hayburner. I hunt in Hancock Co. (Antler restricted Co.) and we continually see "older" spikes. So far we have abided by the rules, and not taken any of these older spikes. But there may come a time....

Phil M.... I think the reason you do not see that many spikes on your lease is EXACTLY related to the number of does you shoot. Especially at an 8 to 1 ratio. I know a lot of folks do not care about or listen to QDMA facts and stats, but this is what they have been preaching for years. On this point, I believe them.

 

[Dean]

I think for your own future

reference I would pull the jaw bone and age the deer. If it is a 2.5 year old, then maybe you should have given him another year (yea, I know it is too late now) but you mentioned a saggy belly, that is an indication of a much older deer -- don't think many 2.5 year old bucks have that saggy belly.

If you age him by his teeth to be 3.5+ then , it was probabaly the right cull. Anyway, my point is why not age the jawbone and try to learn something more about this bucks true age. Just my .02c.

 

[Buzz]

The problem when you allow "cull bucks" in your club is that you really have to know the members very well. It's one thing to shoot a 15" spike but as soon as you allow "cull bucks" you will likely have guys bringing in 90# yearling spikes.

I for one don't buy the "once a spike always a spike argument." The one you shot sounds sounds like it wasn't in his genes to become much of a racked buck. It doesn't matter now though, enjoy the meat.

 

[DSGB]

I agree with Dean on this one. Get the jaw bone aged so that you can be sure it was an older deer.

 

[sks/hunter]

spikes

so you guys are saying that a spike is always a spike I have watched several spikes become 6pt and 8pt in just two years on trail cams and can identify those deer in-particular due to their whit chest patches. I have also seen a button head have 6 pts basket rack the next year... any info would help... thank you

 

[sks/hunter]

scrub buck vs spike

ok guys i keep hearing the term scrub buck but what is a scrub buck is it a spike i have shot a 140lb deer with two points on one side and a bull horn on the other that came down around his face is this a scrub buck... any info helpful thanks

 

[PHIL M]

Its been proven over and over that the once a spike always a spike theory is wrong. there is a chance that every now and then it happens. just like sometimes a buck might not ever be more than a 6 pt. its even been shown that a spike can even have a 10 pt rack on its second year. I look at it like this, I can only remember seeing 1 spike in my life that I think was older than 1 1/2 years. how many spikes have you seen that would go 150- 200 lbs? just because they have spikes on their head, doesnt mean they dont eat and grow year after year. Im through rambling now! this is just what I believe.
p.s. this is a good topic!

 

[Dean]

I don't adhere

to once a spike always a spike - as it has been posted, pen raised whitetail deer (spikes for first antlers) have become trophy 10 pts with the proper protein sources. Generally speaking I don't believe most clubs or hunters can call 'cull bucks' on the hoof. The way we do it is by trail camera and video footage - a group in our club must agree that the buck is a management buck. What typically classifies a management buck, well on our club a 2.5 yr old spike is NOT a cull buck, just to early to tell. On the other hand, a buck deemed 4.5 years or older (again buck has been captured on film for study and eval) based on body size, sway back, stomach, etc.. but is a marginal 8pt, then he is probably the right management buck to remove from the herd. If he is a marginal 8 pt at that age, then genitically he just doesn't have the genes to be more.

Like I posted earlier, pull the jaw bone and age him - if he was a 2.5 year old, or big body 1.5 year old buck, then , you didn't really help your herd by removing him.

 

[How2fish]

My take from personal experenice is that most 1-1.5 year old deer that are spikes can be better bucks as they age. However if you see a 2.5 or older deer and they are pretty easy to tell from the younger ones...drop them like a bad habit. 5-6 years ago I killed a 190lb live wt 5 year old spike with 13 and 14 inch spikes. Last year on the same lease I saw a 150 lb+ spike with 10 and 12 inch spikes that I couldn't shoot as I had already taken a buck,but a buddy killed it the next week. He was 3 years old! These are not normal spikes as they are BIG bodied deer and bigger than the normal 2 year old 8 pt bucks normally are..I'm for letting 1-1.5 spikes walk I tend to agree they can grow into a nice buck...the older spikes and these were both healthy animals..need to be culled..now here is the tricky part our club is right across the river from Hancock Co....were these are deer under the new QMA rules can NEVER be taken legally...I can't help but think that the big spike I killed was breeding most of the does in the area he was a Hoss...so how long can you let bucks like that breed and not have a negative impact ?? Not a easy question...most spikes should be allowed to grow...but a few that are Mature deer should IMO be taken.Just my 2cents...

 

[Jim McRae]

Well, well, some discussion on Woody's w/o name calling.

I've got a few pictures developed yesterday and I have two 8 pointers w/ good potential on it. No pictures of the spike I took out, but I did get one of a much younger spike that was obviously not a cull. I've also got a huge cowhorn w/ velvet still on his horns. He's got to be close to 200 lbs and I 've got pictures dating back 4 years of this same deer. He has always been a spike and he always still velvet covered. Now my question is, with this deer still in velvet, even past Thanksgiving(past pictures) , is he capable of breeding? I've heard the velvet covered antlered bucks that never lose their velvet have injured a testicle or only have one , cannot breed. Thought?

BTW, Thanks for all the responses and you guys play nice


Jim M.

 

[Etter1]

It's hard to say. You needed to pull the jawbone cuz if he weighed 150, he might have been 3.5 years. I killed a 2.5 year old spike on redlands a few years ago. He had big bases and probably 11 inch spikes. I doubt he would have ever gotten much past that.