Let's try a different direction. I think WE are lost.

[SemperFiDawg]

Does it strike anyone as wrongheaded that this forum spends more time debating various trivial doctrines and issues than rejoicing and announcing to each other what God has done for us today? Honestly WE have come to represent all that is wrong about religion instead of all that is right about Christ, being that mirror reflection of God that others see. This from a group of self-proclaimed Christians. Putting MYSELF at the head of this list, but WE should be ashamed. How about you tell how God worked in YOUR life today, a miracle that you saw today, what God said to you today. If we are who we really claim to be, this shouldn't be a problem. I will post later today when I have some time to put something together in a coherent manner......hopefully.

 

[j_seph]

Two replies
http://forum.gon.com/threads/sharing-your-testimony-your-experience-of-grace.915674/

 

[j_seph]

After seeing this in my life, did I mess up after...............YUP but God has been great in my life, even when I was walking the opposite direction instead of towards him. This I posted back in 2013 it took me a few years to see what that statement in the 1st sentence meant.

 

[LittleDrummerBoy]

For me, it's a matter of WWJD?

Jesus spent considerable time and effort confronting Pharisaical bullies who claimed the rules they wanted to impose were found in Scripture. So did the Apostles.

In my efforts to make disciples, the main barriers I've seen are folks' past negative experiences with Christian hypocrites and Pharisaical bullies who focus on teaching stuff Christ never commanded like don't drink, don't smoke, don't dance, and go to church on Sundays.

 

[SemperFiDawg]

For me, it's a matter of WWJD?

Jesus spent considerable time and effort confronting Pharisaical bullies who claimed the rules they wanted to impose were found in Scripture. So did the Apostles.

In my efforts to make disciples, the main barriers I've seen are folks' past negative experiences with Christian hypocrites and Pharisaical bullies who focus on teaching stuff Christ never commanded like don't drink, don't smoke, don't dance, and go to church on Sundays.

Yeah, uhhhh. Wrong thread.

 

[Artfuldodger]

God has lead me to believe that no matter how hard I tried to save myself by deeds, I still could not be righteous enough and needed His son's imputed righteousness.

That now my Christ likeness is from Christ. That one day we will see Jesus as he is and become like him.

Also to be a more spiritual person and in the physical, to help and feed Jesus.

 

[welderguy]

The Lord delivered me from a strong temptation today. He made a way of escape for me, and for that I am truly grateful. His mercy is overwhelming to my soul, more than I can describe. He is touched with the feeling of my infirmities. He is for me and not against me. He is my life. I praise Him!

 

[SemperFiDawg]

A couple of months ago there was a span of 3 days where I suffered several devastating emotional blows back to back to back. One involved my direct family, the other was the death of my closest male relative and friend, and the other involved an unprovoked personal attack on me at my job that threatened my entire career. It was without a doubt the most emotionally painful and lonely time in my entire 53 years. I sat one evening feeling like the very fibers of my soul, my sanity, my health, and indeed reality itself, was disintegrating with each passing breath. I was in a meeting, for the most part just trying to hold it together until it was adjourned, and almost oblivious to what was being said, when the person sitting beside me said something that made me smile, and it wasn't even funny. I thought "Oh how good it feels just to be able to feel 'that' emotion, and that simple thought saved me just long enough to survive the meeting. Driving home immediately, I was again just as distraught when God spoke to my heart. "You need to thank me for the pain." It was very concise. No more, No less, and I thought "That's insane. This has finally driven me insane.", but the impression had been made, the command given. Still highly doubting my sanity, I called a good friend and Godly mentor who was intimately aware of my recent troubles. I told him what had happened, and asked if he thought I was going insane. At this point I had truly begun to distrust my sanity, and I needed an opinion from someone who I was sure was NOT insane. He told me that while he didn't understand why God told me to do that, and "No, Thanking God for the pain I was going through didn't exactly make sense to him." that he was pretty sure I wasn't insane yet and so to go ahead and do it: he could see no harm either. I hung up the phone and immediately hit my knees doing exactly as I had been instructed. I thanked God for the pain I was feeling. It was a very short prayer.

When I stood up, before i even got fully erect every bit of my emotional pain and anguish vanished. I was still aware of the losses and the consequences, but it didn't hurt. There was an assuring peace where the anguish had been, and that peace surrounding those has lasted. THAT'S GOD STUFF RIGHT THERE!

 

[SemperFiDawg]

The Lord delivered me from a strong temptation today. He made a way of escape for me, and for that I am truly grateful. His mercy is overwhelming to my soul, more than I can describe. He is touched with the feeling of my infirmities. He is for me and not against me. He is my life. I praise Him!

Details Man. Details.

 

[Israel]

I received a revelation...understanding...clarity as it came to me in the shower last evening, as is not an unusual place/activity in which I find them. Somehow it seems my naked cleaning of myself lends itself to something that helps a door be more open.

Anyone else ever find a kind of stacking of one door being cracked...that leads to another, then another? I think as those still dealing in some manner with time we tend to seek an understanding of the when in a thing, and for the sake of honor the "when" of this particular string appears in some measure with Welder's excellent reference to the wicked and plowing. His post hit me, directed me, captured me. It is working still.

"The plowing of the wicked is sin"

I've said some of what I see in that in another post, even to the provoking of a thread in regards to another scripture "That which is not of faith is sin".

I won't belabor the things I saw of that, and wrote briefly, to that time in the shower last night.

I saw how when originally captured by that verse "that which is not of faith is sin" the operation of being captured to it, had begun. And I don't believe in my speaking/writing (if to brothers) my experience of journey can be much different...unless I am no brother, at all.

Can we face it squarely? Do we, head on? I would say "dare we" but that might imply that we are being challenged by something or someone...when I am convinced that challenge to truth is found more "within us" than a thing being proffered by God. God doesn't challenge us to believe...Jesus doesn't give us hoops...we are being told "how things are"...and I am trusting the wiser will see that is where we may experience what feels as challenge, or as being "challenged" for we sense an opposition...to being told...anything. Something immediately rises when when we feel choice is not left us in the being told "how things are"...not how you or I may want, or hope, or think "things" should be.

"The plowing of the wicked is sin"
I will leave off the many implications beyond the physical and material sight of a three or four bottom grinding up the earth.

But we can consider these elsewhere if needed.

Just taking the very plainest "view" that a thing of seeming "necessity" if one is to sustain himself (doing to earth what is necessary for food) does not escape being sin if done by the wicked. No action is neutral, but all is touched by nature of the actor.

Now...if we can face it, we all know a man who cannot believe everything he does, touches, says, thinks, imagines...could ever consider, is all of wickedness. He is willing...no propelled to "but here, at the least, in this one thing...I have been at least right and not evil"

Oh, it's a very strict and all encompassing condemnation. And its testimony of truth is even born out by the actions it provokes in the wicked...to try and take a stand to find the "something good" of action to present! I love my children! I do! I am diligent at work! I (even) go to church! Preach the gospel. Talk and think a lot about Jesus Christ! Wherever presentation of "our doing" comes up in ourselves, or is then expressed to others as escape from this all encompassing removal of place to stand in anything we do...there is the implicit admission of wickedness. Talk about despair! Talk about being undone. Talk about sensing...hopelessness. All is being stripped away. Talk about being "broken into". A thief in the night...has surely come.

Here it does not matter at all of preference, of what light one would like to see cast upon ones self. Not at all, not a whit. And there is a sure knowing of its rightness...its inexplicable and inescapable rightness that such a man be caught. It is not even that there is no energy of defense...there is the sure knowing of even raising ones voice to it....will only add to a further condemning. There is no finding of anything...but further...down. Of only "more" if I dare try and do the one thing I have all compelling to...escape. I cannot bear....period. We might like to stutter or think we could "b-b-b-b-but I am a believer" There is nothing to be said in that moment. Of such sureness, of such clarity. There is nothing in that moment of all exquisite perfection of truth, moment of truth...found to "reach out" with. I am the man! I know it...but I cannot say it...the light steals even breath. And the knowing is like work of vacuum within, the more knowing of it, the more collapsing in upon myself...and the knowing is irresistible, like an echo in mind that cannot be stopped...cannot be silenced. I have received the end of all my work. Myself. My self.

I cannot explain grace, God help me I have tried, or thought in some way I could. I have thought I was made able by observation of a thing to "reverse engineer it" to prove source, to make source appear in either myself, or to others. Please, for the love of Christ....laugh with me. Laugh at me. Laugh. Laugh at what brought this ragged shred, propelled this ragged shred to that very moment...the thinking it could do "anything". Laugh at how it was tripped into a fire by its own motions. Laugh, for the love of Christ! Laugh!

For something is given there. Was given there. Is given there. In the light that steals all breath. Breath. Breath in the place of total absence of breath. Breath in the place where breath is not necessity, in a fire that is not air dependent. Breath to say the one and only thing that is true to a thing of all untrueness, breath given to all wickedness of such evil and sin...to say the only thing to be said:

"I agree". And that...is all of grace.

I am not a wise disciple. Seeing wisdom is no longer mistaken for apprehending wisdom. Observation can...might even perhaps must...work in a thing to a reasoning of such vanity that says "because I see a thing, I now apprehend that thing"...and it may take us precisely (as it must?) to a place promised to be shown. Jesus is not smart. Jesus Christ is not intelligent. Jesus knows. He is the intelligence, He is, not a reason, or even the reason...He is reason. As he is Wisdom. As he is Righteousness. As He is Justification. As He is all of grace. He knows the very how of all things. And the how His word shall work in man to this thing:

but I will show to you, whom ye may fear; Fear him who, after the killing, is having authority to cast to the gehenna; yes, I say to you, Fear ye Him. YLT

I agree. Jesus knows. Jesus shows.
Laugh, for the love of God our Father...laugh.

 

[gordon 2]

God's work in my life today?

A) On right and wrong in the short term :Taking the law into one's own hands is akin to Eve eating her famous apple. People and nations who take the law into their own hands not only sin against people, and against nations, but especially God.

B) On right and wrong in the greater scheme of things:

Let the one who does wrong continue to do wrong; let the vile person continue to be vile; let the one who does right continue to do right; and let the holy person continue to be holy." Rev. 22:11

C) On being right and wrong about speaking for God due to claims of being to Him.

The testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy. (Rev. 19:10) Jesus' testified as to the will of the Father. The testimony of Christians is the spirit of prophecy. Do Christians testify of the will of Jesus? All claim to. All have claim to some especial discernment especially due to some born again experience, or on a claim of being saved.

Yet, we knowingly or unknowingly applaud the taking of the law into our own hands personally or as a nation which is what Eve did from the get go to upset the apple cart. And, thought we talk a good talk on "What scripture says..." we loose out in the short and longer view of what is right and wrong. What is perhaps worse than a natural man's morals, is my claim of superior moral discernment, and seeing myself a cut above the rest with an intimate knowledge of God's will---because I'm a born again believer. I am so Christian that I can totally disregard what scripture says in Rev. 22: 11. And because I'm to Him I can talk for Him, my thoughts are His thoughts, as what powers I have are His powers. What gifts I have are from Him, I cleave to His lights... and...

And so at any given time I call good evil, and evil good and am more lost than a gentile worshiping the singular strong instincts of self preservation which would mitigate my moral instincts as to good and evil.

This is God's work in my life today. July 12, 2019.

 

[gordon 2]

Today I picked berries. And had a whole field to myself. I was alone all day and ... I got angry alot for a bit. Very, very angry. So maybe I got very angry for 20 mins into the day-- but it was intense. Good thing no one was with me. As I was by myself I count is as a blessing, because I did not have to work out my anger with people. It was between me and .... Hum.

I was very angry at a close person to myself and my wife. A friend of sorts. This person to which my anger was directed, was not there in the field thank goodness. And I'm over my anger now.

It occurred to me that the person I was angry at claims to have discernment and yet I know the person is generally in a professional and social capacity a spin artist, and occasionally a liar in inter-personal relationships.

And it occurred to me that I don't think you can claim to have discernment and be a liar. Either you have discernment or you are a liar. You can't have both.

Anyway... I'm over my anger toward this person, it is exorcised. I think this conversation is on going between me and the Lord, however.

 

[Israel]

I had this scripture on my heart this morning. "...and will make the Valley of Achor a door of hope..."

And then midday a sister (with whom I had not spoken) had posted it...I am very encouraged.

 

[SemperFiDawg]

I had this scripture on my heart this morning. "...and will make the Valley of Achor a door of hope..."

And then midday a sister (with whom I had not spoken) had posted it...I am very encouraged.

With God there are no coincidences or accidents. Just go ahead and say it. That's God speaking to you right there.

 

[SemperFiDawg]

Today I picked berries. And had a whole field to myself. I was alone all day and ... I got angry alot for a bit. Very, very angry. So maybe I got very angry for 20 mins into the day-- but it was intense. Good thing no one was with me. As I was by myself I count is as a blessing, because I did not have to work out my anger with people. It was between me and .... Hum.

I was very angry at a close person to myself and my wife. A friend of sorts. This person to which my anger was directed, was not there in the field thank goodness. And I'm over my anger now.

It occurred to me that the person I was angry at claims to have discernment and yet I know the person is generally in a professional and social capacity a spin artist, and occasionally a liar in inter-personal relationships.

And it occurred to me that I don't think you can claim to have discernment and be a liar. Either you have discernment or you are a liar. You can't have both.

Anyway... I'm over my anger toward this person, it is exorcised. I think this conversation is on going between me and the Lord, however.

I've had to deal with a lot of anger recently. God really humbled me on it and showed me that when I get angry the person that is hurt by my anger is ME!!!!!!!! I just direct that pain toward the person I find at fault for it. I credit God for showing this tom me. It came after a lot of very intense prayer and then listening for him to speak.

So this is how I try to deal with it now. I've shared it with a friend with severe anger and PTSD, and he said it worked great for him. It's easy to remember. Just P.R.A.Y.

Pause
Remember that the person I hurt the most with my anger is me
Ask and ***. Ask God to save me from becoming angry and show me a way to actually help the person who made me angry. Until then, get my butt away from the situation.
Yesterday it. In other words forget about it. Put it in yesterday.

Hope this helps.

 

[SemperFiDawg]

Speaking of anger and how it affects a person and how God has spoke to me about mine. Biblically speaking, anger is simply unforgiveness, and we all know what God has to say about that. A while back I had a personal situation arise in my life that left me devastated and angry. About 6 weeks ago the same situation re-occurred and again I became very angry. It was then that God spoke to me and showed me how MY anger injured ME and ME only. He spoke to my heart and showed me how to deal with it. Last week, the same exact situation occurred again. This time I felt no anger at all, only sorrow at seeing how the other person involved was hurting. In fact I have so much peace, it's almost scary. I had to talk with a very spiritually mature Christian mentor to make sure I wasn't nuts. The peace I have these days is nothing short of miraculous, and I give thanks and glorify God for it.

 

[sea trout]

God led me to this thread today

 

[sea trout]

I loved reading this cool story and needed this today!!!!
God has worked like this in my life before. I believe He's working all the time but the couple /few intense times when God unmistakably speaks to the heart and demands His will be done at once....WOW.... just awesome!
Great story SemperFi! Learn and be forever strong!

 

[Israel]

The above posts (about anger) bring to mind an exchange Hummer was having (in which I believe he was as misunderstood as any man can be) to which I was witness.

It had to do with communications, being honest brokers vs invoking subterfuge in which to hide derision. At least that's how I saw it.

I don't think this is ever a small matter our trying to "balance out" things to our own balancing in matters by injection of agenda to our balancing...(like putting a pinky on the scale). I don't know any man that has not, in some way, mastered this. How to propose a thing that already, in the way of proposing, the manner of presentation...has sought to set any source of non-agreement already as ludicrous. I also don't imagine any of us who call ourselves believers are unfamiliar with being addressed purposely to a provoking so that any response is already rendered to the advantage of another.

Hey, that's fine, that's OK...BUT we also must see what we believe, and speak is in itself provocational to all resistance.

We must learn what is being said in "have you stopped beating your wife?" How to deal with spirits of deception and cleverness. "You still believe in talking donkeys though, right?" Or, God forbid..."still on your way to he11, are you?"

Anyway, Hummer had pointed out that from the onset of communication, resort to invoking insult...masked in many ways, and some too plain to call masked at all, has already made any attempts at communication vain. This was not received at all. (Again, as I understood the conversation)

It was too easily turned to "oh, so you are offended in our appraisals of what you yourself claim is your stance" In other words...to reduce to the absurd...a christian is "a man who believes in talking donkeys". I think we have all been there. Or, "you believe in what we would call no less than a flying spaghetti monster." Invisible friend. God without power to address evil...etc...etc...

This cunningly got turned to "you are so easily offended...so thin skinned" (not verbatim, but I believe implied) to the point that any noting of what might hinder honest exchange was in itself, the error. The offense. The evil thing. In simpler terms "nothing can be offensive"...just because you say it might be...stealing then all ground of judgment.

I don't believe Hummer was ever trying to make the case of what anyone should or shouldn't do, how to speak or not speak, what terms should be agreed to as "off limits"...but was making appeal, in hope, that some might see intentional motive to deride, and its recognition when employed...could, if identified in use and abandoned, would be a helpful thing to communication. But it appeared none would have it. It resulted again, I believe, to a "if you are offended, it only is because offense is in you...and therefore..."...leaving a man no place to actually judge the rightness of anything. It was the claim "if you see anything that could appear as out of order, that is manifest proof you are out of order" Ridiculous to the extreme. It makes any report of a crime then (if there be such thing as crime) as the fault of the reporter. Hummer saw and understood how this would...to the extreme...make report of rape...unreportable...lest the reporter of the thing/action done in alleged depravity...only show the depravation of the reporter...and not the committer of such act. So it got easily turned to "now you are saying rape is the same as a verbal insult?" I would laugh except as witness to it...

So now...there were another set of barrels loaded. And all because one (who never made any claim to being perfect...or even right in his own communication) dare point out there can be healthy vs unhealthy means employed to benefit in that activity.

It's as if "no one is allowed to see such"...which is really the whole of contending against the gospel..."no one could possibly be allowed to know God...and that through Jesus Christ". No one is allowed...to see. (We know that speaker) He has no light in him...and condemned to not seeing, despises sight...and light. What is pleasure to us, is utmost torment to him.


All of that to say this. Jesus did say "offenses must come". Sometimes liars claim discernment. (it is a vexation!) Sometimes there really is offense...! And our sense of it, that such may come, may even must come...does not diminish our experience of it. God remains in truth, against all lies. He is not pleased with them. And we must be prepared to be those as accused of bringing to light the very thing which "no man is allowed to see" as operating in cleverness and decpetion. We are given to see both the pleasure of God in Jesus Christ, and the condemnation that remains upon what is not of Christ. He who believes is saved, he who believes not is already condemned. But, it is not for us, at any point in time to determine what is determined to remain "outside". That we are told some are "in" some will continue to "out" is only for us a truth. Nevertheless we are told to address deeds of darkness to their exposure...even should we get burned by appeal for such light.


There are twisted and evil things to be dealt with...but they are principalities and powers, and they are not ignorant of turning a thing to lay accusation against the one who sees their working. Their best work is in not being seen at all, imagined to be part and forever parcel of man himself...so the man who senses their judgement may be (as long as allowed) to imagine it is Christ accusing him of being unworthy. And therefore any who carry the gospel are easily accused of those being "always and only men set to condemn others". The tighter one is bound in agreement with those principalities...the more he will experience in himself their judgement (now is the Prince of this world judged) and feel Christ is all source of condemnation to man.

But we know this is not so. But we also dare not forget in carrying the gospel, we are a living invitation for men to accept their own death as truly, and already accomplished. And, if that in itself is sometimes painful in the outworking...even for the disciple...how much more horrid it must appear to those who have not yet tasted the comforts and encouragements of Christ given in the endurance of that truth!

If we would see mercy toward ourselves it must no less have little hindrance in ourselves to the flowing out. Yes, we are men placed in an impossible position that only God resolves to us, and for us. God does not despise resistors...but cleverness? Devious manipulations? Kisses to purposely conceal a blade? Jesus didn't. Doesn't. He never sought to hide the intent He is.

"I'm here to burn this whole thing down...make no mistake" I am the burning of this whole thing down...make no mistake. The consuming of "old".

Now is the axe laid to the root of the tree. "Today" he said to those round about, "This scripture is fulfilled in your hearing" To hear...is to hear the roar of that flame...not only as coming, but as come. But not without promise..."Behold I make all things new".

There is righteous anger that is to no shame in the sensing. There is also the wrath of man, that cannot work anything of righteousness. If there be any hope of help, first for ourselves...(and perhaps even through to any other) we cannot but be brought to acknowledge not all sensing of anger or disapproval automatically means it is God's, anymore than we dare assume there are no activities/workings/motives in which the Lord is not absolutely pleased to delight and fully indulgent toward man. There's some stuff God not only doesn't like, never accepted, won't accept...and is judging through Jesus Christ.

Our privilege and honor is to see, and learn how He handles this sort or matter through Christ.

"Those who sin rebuke before all that others may fear" But first this must work toward us...before it may work through us. But we should make no mistake..."judgment must begin in the household of God, and if it begin with us, where will the sinner and the ungodly appear?"

Yeah, there's some stuff that really angers the Lord. Christ is no benign idiot. But just knowing this means in no way that I judge it rightly. It's just enough to encourage trembling.


We are men made ready to call down friendly fire upon our own coordinates...and if we perish, we perish. Nevertheless...we live...yet not us...

 

[SemperFiDawg]

Was in a meeting about a month ago where spiritual matters were being discussed. God put something to say on my heart, yet I was indecisive about speaking. The person sitting beside me said to me, "Was you about to say something?" I said, "Why do you ask?" He said, "Because you just cleared your throat." which I was unaware I had done. GOD. So I spoke up and said what was on my heart. After the meeting a lady came up and stopped me. She said, "I'm glad you said what you did. I'm going through some things, and it was just what I needed to hear." MORE GOD.

Please tell me I'm not the only one here that sees God in their life like this constantly. Either God is completely sovereign over EVERY event that happens or he's not. If he's not why does one trust him at all? Job above all realized this.

"The Lord gave, and the Lord has taken away; BLESSED be the name of the Lord.”
This wasn't said by Job out of apathy, with a sigh of resignation. This was actual Praise.
Job was hurting, and he may have not understood why, but he still trusted that God loved him. If you can have that type of trust, then you will have peace regardless of the circumstances.

Over the last months God has taken me and completely broken me back down into dust. It's been the most painful thing I have ever endured., but there hasn't been ONE instance where:
1) God wasn't there with me the entire time, even when I doubted.
2) He didn't use the experience to grow and fundamentally transform my relationship with him from knowing ABOUT God to KNOWING GOD.
3) The pain, no matter how bad it was, was nothing compared to the reward. I would gladly do it all again and worse.

It's to the point I look at personal tragedy, and Brothers it seems to just keep on coming and coming, and say, "OK, God. I'm ready." That's all I need to do. Be ready. He will do the rest. I just watch for his hand, listen for his voice, and I thank him and praise him for every painful emotion and every tear I shed. I can do this because he has demonstrated to me, without a doubt, his love for me, and I have come to realize that we don't grow when life is good. Life is good because we grow. But spiritual growth itself comes through pain, not pleasure which always breeds complacency, stagnation and eventual apostasy. Speaking from personal experience here on that.

That's why I now pray, (what seems counterintuitive if not total foolishness to most) "Lord break me, grieve me, give me more troubles so I can sing your praise even more often, louder, and more clearly, that I can better relate to all-the-more people who are suffering and will listen because of their suffering, and that my suffering may become a living testimony to your love, mercy, power and majesty. Break me unto death, only let it glorify your love for me, and let those who know me and see me understand this love you have shown me is no more than you yearn to show to even the worst sinner. May Your will be done, and may I do it continually and forever. Amen.