Loss of Salvation

[BANDERSNATCH]

It amazes me at the number of people who think that just because someone gets saved and accepts Christ that they instantly become unable to fall into 'bad sin'. I've been saved since I was like 13 and trust me, I have to continually guard myself....especially when it comes to women!

In reference to the I Cor 5 scriptures, I could easily do the same kind of thing if I'm not careful. Married or not, and I'm sure many of you out there agree....when a leggy blonde with a rack walks by I look like the rest of you! Satan doesn't quit tempting you when you accept Jesus..... Or am I alone here?

To say that the guy in I Cor 5 could never have been saved....that's rediculous! To say otherwise is to build a strawman....it never says that he was anything but a member of the church....and the Corinthian church was 'proud' that God's grace was covering this sin......

Bandy

 

[garndawg]

I agree with Bandersnatch's statment about constantly having to guard yourself. Especially around women.

I'm wondering, though, about my ability to sin w/o guilt. I can't pursue that '10', because I'll get sick at my stomach about the thought of breaking Christ's heart. Not to mention my wife's. There are guys who don't seem to have as much trouble with that. Beats me how they accomplish that feat and still think they're pursuing Christ. :

My men's group has a 3-second rule. If you've looked at eye candy for three seconds, you should feel under conviction. If you don't, you might want to find out why.

The Book is full of examples of men after God who fell off. David, Samson, Abram, etc. God will help me resist Temptation, but only if I want/ask Him too. If I am willfully disobediant, God will let me follow my own path, but I shouldn't be surprised when He lowers the Boom on me. He's told me before hand what's coming.

 

[PWalls]

Bandersnatch,

I don't think anyone here has said that just because we are saved that we become unable to sin.

Everyone of us is a sinner, plain and simple. The biggest difference is that now that we have Christ inside us, we have a choice, to sin or not. Before a person is saved, there is no choice. They don't know anything differently other than to continue to live in their sin.

What I disagree with you is that you don't "fall" into any sin. Sin is a wilfull disobediance to God's Word. When that long-legged blonde walks by, I am sure everyone looks at her. However, there is a huge difference in just looking and staring and wishing and picturing the two of you in your wife's bed going at it. That is adultery of the heart which is a sin. I have a Christian friend that tells me to develop a bouncing eye (that is to look but then bounce off and not think about it anymore).

Anyway, Sin is not accidental, nor do you fall into it. It is a choice a person. If a person can easily make that choice, then I question their true salvation.

Do I sin? Yes. Is it my choice? Yes. Do I ask for and receive forgiveness when I do sin? Yes.

 

[duckbill]

Man, we've got some awefully confident Christians on here! Folks, when you become saved you just placed a big bullseye on your back. Satan has no need to attack non-Christians. He stands much more to gain by causing us to slip. For a Christian to sin in front of non-Christians, the damage is deep.
Do not be fooled. We will not be sinless until we meet Him in Heaven.
The story of the prodigul son speaks the loudest in my opinion. Here is a father and his child (we,as Christians are now children of God). The child willfully chooses to abandon his relationship for the ways of sin. Did the relationship ever change? Absolutely not. Did he suffer from his consequences? Yes. Important - he lost his inheritance, but never lost his place in his father's house.

Folks, the closer we walk with God the better we live as Christians. Not every one walks close to God and that is where they get in trouble. It happens to ALL of us.

 

[Keith48]

PWalls,

Very well said!!

I first heard the "bounce your eyes" deal in a life-changing book for me. It is called, "Every Man's Battle." We do have a choice as to whether or not we look. And sometimes it is very hard not to. But we are responsible for our own actions. It takes discipline to do (and trust me, I have not "arrived!"), but to be a disciple, you must be disciplined!

 

[BANDERSNATCH]

Well...that is where we disagree. I believe a christian can 'fall' into sin. Satan is subtle....and a man can get into big sin a little at a time. A man doesn't wake up one day and say "I think I'll destroy my family today over an affair"

Also, all sin is not a willful disobedience. There are sins that we are unaware of....I forget the word that is used in the OT for known sin and unknown sin. (Maybe someone can help me out here) There are many times that I'm driving down the road and i'm going 5-10 miles over the speed limit and never have a clue until I look down at the meter.....not willful, but unintentional.

Anyway....I'm glad that we can discuss things like this and stay 'brothers'.

you guys are

Bandy

 

[robema31]

1 Cor 10:13

I believe this verse should sum up the whole conversation of known sin. If we know that we are tempted, God does provide a way out. You are correct in stating that we have known sin & unknown sin, my 3 year old is selfish, has a temper and does not share his toys, however, there is an age when he recognizes this as sin and is held accountable for that sin.

To use your analogy of speeding, yes if I get pulled over there would be consequences for that action. Whose fault was it that I was speeding? Mine. The same is true in sin, it is noones choice in my life to sin but mine.

I believe that God is gracious enough to help us by the Holy Spirit understand the times in our life when we sin. It is our responsibility to how we respond, do we repent or do we ignore the Holy Spirit. Jesus stated that there in only one unpardonable sin and that was grieving the Holy Spirit. I take that to mean that if we ignore His pleas for us to repent, how can we receive salvation in the first place.

I believe there are a lot of people out there who are fooled into believing they are saved because they said a little prayer or were dunked in a baptistry when they were small. The fact is there was no repentance, no forgiveness and in a sense no salvation. True salvation only comes through true repentance.

 

[hpurvis]

I finally found one of the books I have been looking for.

Dr. Charles Stanley wrote a book: Eternal Security- Can You be Sure?

This would be good reading for any of you who wonder about eternal security.

One point he makes on the Hebrews 10:26-31 section is number 1 often times it is taken out of context and that when he made the sacrifice he made it once and for all and there is no more sacrifice. If there was then he would have to be nailed to the cross again. Also he ask the question: which of your sins did he die for and which ones did he not die for.

you may want to look at Hebrews 10:12-14 also.

 

[BANDERSNATCH]

I've read the 'Eternal Security' book by Stanley....and I think he does a good job of covering scriptures that point at eternal salvation, but to the best of my memory he does not address the scriptures that seem to show that you can lose it, as mentioned in previous posts. (1 Cor 5, Hebrews 6:4,etc)

I believe that he also says that to have one's name "blotted out of the Lamb's book of life" means only that someone will lose their physical life. That is far fetched if you ask me.... :

Bandy

 

[PWalls]

Great thread. I also love a place where we can talk about these issues.

I gotta head out of town for the next couple of days so I'll see you guys later.

One parting shot however, if you believe that you can just "fall" into sin or that Satan is so powerful that he can make that happen, do you doubt the power of the Holy Spirit within you to prevent that from happening. If you have a relationship with God based on a strong faith and open communication, then I still don't see how it can happen.

Anyway, Bandersnatch, I'm with you. Awesome place to talk with your brothers.

 

[dave]

Loss of salvation

Like most topics discussed in the Canon (aka Man's Bible), there's a lot of room for agreement and disagreement.

I personally believe that once saved, always saved.

 

[edge]

Mr. Holt,

Again I find myself agreeing with you to the point that I didn't even read past your second post. You sound like you have been around a long time...!
Not to say that you are always right, just that I haven't found a whole lot to argue with you about yet. : Interesting replies.

Read some more...REFRESHING that this topic can be discussed in a candid and mature manner. And I've learned that alot of people on this board are as I am...a very imperfect man made perfect in God's eyes through Christ. But no where near perfect in the world's or my mind!

 

[CRANEMAN]

AT ONE POINT IN TIME SATAN WAS ONE OF GOD'S GREATEST ANGLES. HE WAS CAST OUT OF HEAVEN. I'D SAY HE LOST HIS SALVATION, WOULDN'T YOU?