Loss of Salvation

[Madsnooker]

It is possible to fall away after becoming a christian...

Hebrews 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, 5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, 6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.



This guy was a christian member of the Corinthian church....
1 It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife. 2 And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you. 3 For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed, 4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, 5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.


I do believe as many of you do that your salvation is hard to lose, and that it would be one's own choice to deny Him. I would have to count His blood as an 'unholy thing'.

 

[Todd E]

Keith,

Out of all the many posts you have written(they've been good), that last paragraph was the most well written, most impacting, straight to the point, easy to understand part of a post. Thanks for bringing it across the way you did. As I said, there are many scriptures for both sides and many Godly men on both sides. Does the Bible contradict itself on this issue? I say NO. Do I feel you can lose it? NO. Is this an issue that would pit me against Keith or any other believer? NO. There are many lost souls out there who just need to find salvation in Christ.

 

[Derek]

I don't think that people realize that being a "good person" is not going to get you into heaven. Being "religious" will not get you into heaven either. Also, when we get to heaven it is not going to be divided by denomination. It will be all born again believers. I do not believe in denominations. God never meant for the church (his people) to be divided.

 

[robema31]

Salvation

"My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand. "My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. John 10:27-29

I think the real question here is, were you really in the Father's hand to begin with. If we sin, we know it. You stated that if you go out and kill someone and end up with the death penalty, would you still end up in heaven.

I believe there is more to it than just that, God in some way was tryinig to reach out to that person to prevent the life that they were heading towards.

Sometimes it is so easy for us to judge others and their behaviour rather than dive into every circumstance or situation that person has come across.

I have met people who believe that a child molester can not receive salvation if they repent while in prison. Who are we to determine who God gives grace to and who He should not give it too.

With that all being said, who are any of us to receive His gift of grace. If He chooses to keep us until the day of redemption, we need to rejoice and be thankful.

Here is a question for you, what if you lost your salvation everytime you sinned??? Hopefully on the day that you die, you accepted Christ for the umpteenth millionth time and you are on the good side and not the bad. Just ramblings from another believer.

 

[Madsnooker]

Robema,

As I stated previously, I think it is very hard to lose your salvation, but what I have read in the new testament, it can happen but it's your choice.

You don't lose your salvation becuase you slip up and sin. What I'm talking about is those that sin willingly over time can fall away.

 

[hpurvis]

Keith

Hilton,

You know my true friendship with and respect for you, so please know that I am not being confrontational. The Bible is very clear on living a life of obedience and holiness. I do not consider the sacrafice that Jesus made to be a common thing; that is, I do not live my life like I want to knowing that all I have to do is ask forgiveness. Hebrews 10:26-27 says, "For if we sin deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a fearful prospect of judgment, and a fury of fire which will consume the adversaries."

Thanks for the kind words. I appreciate the fact that we can discuss serious things and not get all bent out of shape. I also hope no one thoguth I was confontational as I did not intend to be. I respect your's and all opinions.

My take on Heb 10:26-27 is this. "For if we sin deliberately(willfully or continue) after receiving the knowledge of the truth(Jesus), there no longer remains a sacrifice(Jesus) for sins, but a fearful prospect of judgment(God's wrath and discipline on us), and a fury of fire(God's flaming retribution and indignation) which will consume the adversaries."

Now I see nothing in that verse about losing you salvation.

Now being Baptist, I was brought up and taught the eternal security of the believer. See I don't think a loving God will give us salvation only to take it back. Now if I willfully sin then I will pay the consequences of my sin(as God determines) and not Jesus, because I would in effect be crucifying him all over and I believe he died once and once was good enough.

 

[Ga-Spur]

These are good thought provoking post.

 

[BANDERSNATCH]

Did anyone have a comment on Madsnooker's post of the 1 Corinthians 5 verse???

I Corinthians 5:1-5
1 It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife. 2 And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you. 3 For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed, 4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, 5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

this guy was a christian already....as stated in verse one. He was part of the Corinthian church...

Bandy

 

[coastga]

For those who believe you can not lose your salvation, God says "he will bot your name out of the Lambs book of Life" -----------here is the Jaw-breaker, for your name to be blotted out, it had to be in the lamb's book of life first. So, who is in the Lambs book of life?-----All those redeamed by the blood of Jesus Christ.

Amen!

Live holy and righteous before the LORD!

 

[coastga]

BANDERSNATCH.

This is what that scripture means (I Corinthians 5:5) is that you turn the person over to Satan So that the person will come back to Christ and repent, that the spirit maybe saved. Remember the parable about the protical Son? Same thing, the flesh was given over to rioughtes living but the spirit was saved when he came back to the father.

GO HOLY GHOST GO!

 

[BANDERSNATCH]

so if they didn't come back to Christ and repent, then their spirit would not be saved?

Bandy

 

[mpowell]

bandy,

personally, i think repentance is BIG. we're all sinners, yes. but, IMO, we HAVE to ask for forgiveness and fight those sins! God will help us.

i'm going to share something a little personal here, but . . .

my older brother leads the "alternative lifestyle" so to speak. now, i know many don't think someone like him could be a Chrisitian, be saved, or possibly go to Heaven. and, i'd appreciate those that read this DON'T turn this thread into a gay bashing thread! that's not what Christians do. anyway, his only sin that makes him any different than me is his choice of lifestyle. he's was raised the same, attended church the same, same loving parents, etc. now, where he lives in california, he's a very involved member of the episcopal church where he lives. he teaches Bible study, attends sundays/wednesdays, and for all intents and purposes he's does a much better job of living a Christian life than i do! i'll confess that.

but, my sticking point with him is his obvious choice to live a lifestyle that is a sin with NO repentance. to me, it's like thumbing your nose at the Lord. if you sin, you must recognize your sins, ask forgiveness, and let God help you overcome your sins. if you don't do this, then i don't think you're truly trusting God to lead your life as a saved person would.

 

[Keith48]

This not meant as gay-bashing, because I do not bash anyone. But if your brother is a homosexual, I can tell you with all certainty that he will NOT go to heaven. How can I be certain? Because the Bible is very clear. There is no interpretation needed, but I will interpret it anyway.

The passage is 1 Corinthians 6: 9-10 " Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolators, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God (NKJV)." Now when you interpret that, it actually means, "Neither fornicators, nor idolators, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God."

But yet, he can repent and be saved! Now a question for all you that hold to eternal security - Can a person accept Jesus and be defined in this list and still retain their salvation? I honestly just want to know how you come to that belief. I know someone that was an evangelist that led many people to Jesus. He is now a practicing homosexual living in sin and does not hold to Biblical truth. Will he go to heaven?

 

[BANDERSNATCH]

KM,

My understanding is that the can't-ever-lose-your-salvation group believes that references to "inheriting the Kingdom of God" means only that their share of the inheritance will be a lot lower than someone who kept theirself clean. They see a difference between 'eternal life" and 'kingdom of God inheritance'.

Still..having your name 'blotted out of the Lamb's book of life' and "that the spirit MIGHT be saved in the day of the Lord" are scary and nearly point-blank warnings to not turn away from Christ.

interesting discussion....

Bandy

 

[PWalls]

I know I am new and all, but how can you accept Jesus as your Lord and Saviour and then all of a sudden do these things that have been listed above?

There is a physical and spiritual change in a person that occurs when he gives his life to Christ and accepts Him in. That is a fact as I am walking proof of it (plus several that I know).

That is where I (and most Baptists) would question the person's original salvation. When you experience a true salvation, you want to please God and Jesus, you want to follow his commandments and spread his Word. I just don't see how you can all of a sudden stop wanting to do that (by becoming or accepting homosexuality or just hauling off and killing someone).

 

[Randy]

PWALLS,
I don't understand how people do it either but, my Baptist upbringing says we all sin an fall short of the Glory of God. We are just human, We just do. Some happen to sin more than others. I really don't know what makes a person turn his/her back on God other than as God says. The way is narrow and hard! Some just can not keep up the hard work.

 

[garndawg]

For some reason today, I've really felt to the need to write a lot!

Can you lose your salvation? I'm not sure that's the way to phrase it. I prefer:

Q; Can you give your Salvation back if you decide you don't want it?

A: Probably not. I think that some people, when presented with the Gospel, play around with it for a while. Treat Grace like some kind of mind puzzle, trying to find the holes in the logic. I guess they walk the isle for whatever reason, but don't really commit. Kinda' like a conditional acceptance, with the option of a 30-day return policy. Seems most make up their minds quickly, at or maybe even before the Altar Call. Those others take years. But sooner or later, everyone either Accepts or Rejects Grace absolutely.

I'm told that Grace is a gift that I can either accept or reject freely. It's either I can do it own my own Thankyouverymuch, or I-can't-do-it you-have-to-do-it-for-me-God. Paul says that when you finally make that choice, you exchange your sinful nature for a life of Grace. Or, as Paul phrases it, you are no longer slaves to sin, but slaves for Righteousness. (Romans 6) God says no one can pluck you out of his grasp, so you can't have it taken away, as someone has already referenced before.

But you can decide if you don't want it in the first place...

That's the way I see it.

 

[Vernon Holt]

Can You Lose Your Salvation

Did anyone have a comment on Madsnooker's post of the 1 Corinthians 5 verse???
[Bandy Quote]''this guy was a christian already....as stated in verse one. He was part of the Corinthian church"...
******************************************
I have no comment concerning Bandy's post, but I will comment on 1 Cor 5.

The Corinthian Church, as do all Churches today, contained "tares" which were growing among the wheat. These are generally regarded as hypocrites, or pretenders, people who prided themselves in church membership, but yet openly practiced sin. Such were those who involved themselves in sexual sins.

Paul, being the strong advocate for Church Discipline that he was, did not hesitate to instruct the Church to "deliver such an one to satan". Paul was simply saying that since he belongs to satan already, get him out of the Church by the quickest and most expedient way possible.

I take issue with Bandy's statement that this fornicator was saved by virtue of him being a member of the Church. Church rolls all over, as was the case in Corinth, are filled with names of people who have not simply departed from their "first love", but have never loved Christ in the first place.

Vernon

 

[hpurvis]

Keith

I know someone that was an evangelist that led many people to Jesus. He is now a practicing homosexual living in sin and does not hold to Biblical truth. Will he go to heaven?

How do you know he was saved. I know Pastors, Deacons, SS teachers, etc that are not saved, but claim to be. There are false teachers all around.

Only God knows for sure. I cannot willfully sin without God getting all over me. If I even think of it I get strong vibes from the Holy Spirit. There is absolutley no way I can willfully sin, the Holy Spirit is hollering and screaming at me, NO , NO , NO.

 

[Keith48]

Hilton,

I absolutely agree 100%!!