Messed up somewhere

ICU2012

Member
Hey guys, looking for some guidance here. I have a 1 year old male chocolate lab that I’ve been training. He has some weird quirks that I haven’t seen before. The most annoying of them being he is super inconsistent with bringing a dummy back to my hand if we’re on dry ground. 90% of the time he drops it 5’ in front of me then comes to heal and just will not go back and pick it up. Now in water, swimming, he’s solid as a rock. I have a momash dog stand and he brings everything back to it flawlessly. My big concern obviously is that he won’t work on a dove hunt or if I duck hunt in super shallow water where he doesn’t need to swim or use his stand. Y’all can be pretty harsh on me, I got thick skin. But some pointers on how to work this out would be great. Thanks for your time
 

baddave

Senior Member
think hard before force fetching .. some people swear by it .. i don't like it mainly because i feel like it hurts my dog and i just don't think it's necessary if you live w/ that dog .. pros do it but they have to get this dog out .. i had a blk dog that did something like that because he was just a hammerhead .. i had good luck w/ the collar. you are right , you have to do something soon
 

krazybronco2

Senior Member
think hard before force fetching .. some people swear by it .. i don't like it mainly because i feel like it hurts my dog and i just don't think it's necessary if you live w/ that dog .. pros do it but they have to get this dog out .. i had a blk dog that did something like that because he was just a hammerhead .. i had good luck w/ the collar. you are right , you have to do something soon
force fetch when done correctly does not hurt the dog. improper use of a E collar can ruin a good dog a lot faster than pinching an ear or squeezing a toe can.
 

baddave

Senior Member
i agree w/that .. definitely a mild shock when using for that purpose ... but i came closer to ruining a dog w/ force fetching than i have w/ collar .. i don't really know how to force fetch "right" but that's what i'm saying .. we're saying the same thing but the truth is different strokes for different dogs.. i will say , i'd rather have a dog work w/ a smile on her face than scared . but i've never been accused of being traditional:cheers:
 

Joe Overby

Senior Member
Soooo...you self admittedly dont know how to force fetch "right" yet you advocate using an ecollar fo fix this mans problem all the while telling him that ff could ruin his dog??? Yeeeaaaahhhhhh....just stop.....

OP...I've ff'd literally hundreds...the ecollar is a vital part of ff but not the answer nor even the most vital. FF, when done correctly, teaches a dog how to properly deal with pressure. It is not, as its name misleads most, a forced version of the complete retrieve. The consequence of proper ff IS a complete, conditioned retrieve free of any nonsense. This happens because the dog learns a standard of behavior and how to properly function when things aren't "their way". If you've got any questions, feel free to message me.
 

baddave

Senior Member
icu-- the truth is you're going to have to read and figure your dog .. i would recommend reading as much as you can and use the ideas you think will work for you and your dog . i read water dog and i feel it was ok .. the best book for me was @ the library by james lamb free i believe was his name . it made a lot of things click w/ me.. i believe a well rounded retriever needs to know more than any kind of working dog anywhere. people in law enforcement would argue .. retrieving to hand will be a minor detail in the big picture and JOE - sorry to offend you but read what i said again .. not saying it doesn't work just saying be careful -- chill brother
 

Joe Overby

Senior Member
Dave...I ain't offended...I just think you're giving dangerous advice to a rookie trainer. Both books you mention are, IMO, outdated as well.

OP, if it's a program you seek go with one of the big 3....
Smartwork by Evan Graham
Total Retriever Training by Mike Lardy
Bill Hillman
Pick one and stick to it. DO NOT pick and choose from multiple sources...DO NOT jump around...just pick one and follow it. I recommend Smartwork. It's really not the mountain folks make it out to be...
 
Lassie was force fetched and he was not even a Retreiver
 

wildlands

Senior Member
I forced fetched one of the hounds in my picture just to see if I could. I was working with some very knowledgeable people. To this day she will still hold something if told to and not drop it till asked. Get a mentor who knows what they are doing and work with them. As Joe said done right no problem and the E collar will come in later and be a tool that you use.
 

Kline2054

Member
If you have not done force fetch before then I STRONGLY suggest reading the Smartowrk by Even Graham as well as Total Retriever by Mike Lardy just as Joe mentioned. However after reading I do not suggest going forward with doing it yourself. I suggest you take the knowledge you learned and then pay a pro to force fetch your dog while you accompany them in the learning process. The books will allow for your to be more familiar with the process and ask intelligent questions and understand what is going on. Also, getting a pro to do it does not mean getting a buddy to do it sho claims they did it on their dog

Force fetch is one of the most crucial pieces to a dogs development and training and needs to be done properly. It teaches the dog that a way out of pressure is compliance, it teaches a dog that you are in charge if one of its most crucial parts of its anatomy... their mouth

The pressure of force fetch and principles taught in it will carry over into nearly every other piece of training once force fetch is turned into proper collar conditioning.
 
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