Morality

WaltL1

Senior Member
Doggone it Walt you done spooked the fish.
Nah, nothing I could say would matter.
To be spooked would mean your question and what I said were actually considered, thought about, and caused some sort of "alarm" at the obvious implications.
None of those things happened.
It was just a drive by "rah rah sis boom bah gooooo imaginary absolute morals" ;)
 

Israel

Senior Member
Jesus Himself often stood accused of "breaching" what men had established for themselves as the absolutes. Seen as drunkard by some, of bad choice in friends, and bad practice relative to man's understanding of the Sabbath. This is hardly an exhaustive exposition.

Jesus well understands the mechanism of projection, too well in fact, for the comfort of man. Nevertheless He let man 'work out" on him all those things by which they stood in self accusing and condemnation. And took it all.
 
Jesus Himself often stood accused of "breaching" what men had established for themselves as the absolutes. Seen as drunkard by some, of bad choice in friends, and bad practice relative to man's understanding of the Sabbath. This is hardly an exhaustive exposition.

Jesus well understands the mechanism of projection, too well in fact, for the comfort of man. Nevertheless He let man 'work out" on him all those things by which they stood in self accusing and condemnation. And took it all.
Why do you have to speak for someone who apparently is capable of speaking for himself?
 
Jesus Himself often stood accused of "breaching" what men had established for themselves as the absolutes. Seen as drunkard by some, of bad choice in friends, and bad practice relative to man's understanding of the Sabbath. This is hardly an exhaustive exposition.

Jesus well understands the mechanism of projection, too well in fact, for the comfort of man. Nevertheless He let man 'work out" on him all those things by which they stood in self accusing and condemnation. And took it all.
He doesn't understand anything because he is dead, if he ever lived at all.
 
He doesn't understand anything because he is dead, if he ever lived at all.
All a person has to do to not only become an authority on what 2000 year old dead people think, want, like, dislike, love, hate, feel...but also speak for the person and tell others what the corpse understands...is to read a book.
The beauty is since the dead person didn't write down a single thing, these new self appointed authorities just say whatever the heck they want about any situation while asserting and claiming that those are the words and thoughts and actions of someone and more often something that they not only never knew but can never possibly know.

Actually, it is not much different than what the anonymous authors who wrote the gospels did.

It's wonderful entertainment.
 
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Israel

Senior Member
And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.

But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.


I must work the works of him that sent me, while it is day: the night cometh, when no man can work.
 
And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.

But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.


I must work the works of him that sent me, while it is day: the night cometh, when no man can work.
That dog is like taxes, he just don't know when to stop.
~F L
 

Israel

Senior Member
That dog is like taxes, he just don't know when to stop.
~F L
That's an interesting take; "just doesn't know when to stop".
To what end?

Is there an overlooked benefit to stopping of which such a man might be unaware?
 
That's an interesting take; "just doesn't know when to stop".
To what end?

Is there an overlooked benefit to stopping of which such a man might be unaware?
When the audience is no longer captivated by the act the performance is unappreciated. A performer that continues on acting as if unaware of his audience's interest fools nobody but himself.
Self control may be the benefit.
 

Israel

Senior Member
It's no longer...entertaining? That is good.

But, you are not audience. All performance is being watched and weighed.
 
It's no longer...entertaining? That is good.

But, you are not audience. All performance is being watched and weighed.
Ohhh, brownie points for the invisible.

We are purposeful chosen audience by you. You know what makes us tick. You know what type of conversations hold our interest and you know what we take seriously.
You avoid the audience a few floors up to come here with the things that have nothing to do with apologetic conversation.
 
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And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.

But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.


I must work the works of him that sent me, while it is day: the night cometh, when no man can work.
You can accuse us of walking on the dark side but we aren't the ones worshipping a zombie.
 

Israel

Senior Member
Our words are currency.
 
All a person has to do to not only become an authority on what 2000 year old dead people think, want, like, dislike, love, hate, feel...but also speak for the person and tell others what the corpse understands...is to read a book.
The beauty is since the dead person didn't write down a single thing, these new self appointed authorities just say whatever the heck they want about any situation while asserting and claiming that those are the words and thoughts and actions of someone and more often something that they not only never knew but can never possibly know.

Actually, it is not much different than what the anonymous authors who wrote the gospels did.

It's wonderful entertainment.
and there isn't a culture in the world where people don't put their own "spin" on things even if they don't mean to. It's human nature - it's how our brains are wired. Humans are natural story tellers because we have imagination & emotions. That's why ten witnesses give ten slightly different stories of the same car accident/birthday party/combat zone/movie they saw. Our brains can only process so much data in real time, and we all have our preconceived "filters" so much of the pertinent data might be lost or distorted right from the git-go and never get processed. Factor in time and the amount of people stories get passed along to and by the time it's written down it may have zero credibility, even if based on an actual event or idea.

One thing that hit me recently is a big "plot hole" in the New Testament. Much of it (no kidding it's the point of the book) is devoted to Jesus and His disciples teaching early churches how to do Christianity right to get things off to a good start. But wait a minute here....Jesus hadn't been crucified yet! If Christianity is all about worshipping a crucified then resurrected Jesus how can Christianity exist yet if he was still alive at the time? I would think not that many people would be so devoted to & changing their lives around someone who claims to be the Son Of God yet hadn't really proved it yet except through some miracles. And these miracles didn't prove holiness like being dead & coming back to life would. They are truly "going on faith" I guess because there were possibly a lot of Jews at that time making similar claims and shaping Jewish religious ideals.

So it leads me to the conclusion that Christianity could very well have developed at the earliest a few years (or even a generation or two) after his death and the crucifixion/resurrection/quick return to heaven stories gave Jesus' reputation some traction, something larger than life worth starting a religion over.
 
and there isn't a culture in the world where people don't put their own "spin" on things even if they don't mean to. It's human nature - it's how our brains are wired. Humans are natural story tellers because we have imagination & emotions. That's why ten witnesses give ten slightly different stories of the same car accident/birthday party/combat zone/movie they saw. Our brains can only process so much data in real time, and we all have our preconceived "filters" so much of the pertinent data might be lost or distorted right from the git-go and never get processed. Factor in time and the amount of people stories get passed along to and by the time it's written down it may have zero credibility, even if based on an actual event or idea.

One thing that hit me recently is a big "plot hole" in the New Testament. Much of it (no kidding it's the point of the book) is devoted to Jesus and His disciples teaching early churches how to do Christianity right to get things off to a good start. But wait a minute here....Jesus hadn't been crucified yet! If Christianity is all about worshipping a crucified then resurrected Jesus how can Christianity exist yet if he was still alive at the time? I would think not that many people would be so devoted to & changing their lives around someone who claims to be the Son Of God yet hadn't really proved it yet except through some miracles. And these miracles didn't prove holiness like being dead & coming back to life would. They are truly "going on faith" I guess because there were possibly a lot of Jews at that time making similar claims and shaping Jewish religious ideals.

So it leads me to the conclusion that Christianity could very well have developed at the earliest a few years (or even a generation or two) after his death and the crucifixion/resurrection/quick return to heaven stories gave Jesus' reputation some traction, something larger than life worth starting a religion over.
And......
Jesus taught to follow the Old Testament.
He wasnt asking for a new religion.
Paul wanted that.
 
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