Obey God?

[Artfuldodger]

Ephesians 2:2
You used to live in sin, just like the rest of the world, obeying the devil--the commander of the powers in the unseen world. He is the spirit at work in the hearts of those who refuse to obey God.

How does one obey God?

 

[Artfuldodger]

Looking at how we obey God? To be good and not evil. Even though we were washed, scripture paints a good vs evil thing concerning salvation to a certain extent.

James 2:24
You see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith alone.

Matthew 13:49
This is how it will be at the end of the age. The angels will come and separate the wicked from the righteous.

 

[Artfuldodger]

Maybe it's by loving and caring. Helping and forgiving or is it to stop being greedy, jealous, angry, a cheater, lying, fornicator, or a drunkard?

What good was the washing if I can't actually never stop sinning? What happens at the resurrection if I'm saved but separated as a goat for my life of sinning?

When the angels come and separate the wicked from the righteous?
Does the blood of Jesus give me the imputed righteousness to qualify?

 

[Artfuldodger]

Back to obedience, perhaps it's more than commandments and keeping Law. I mean if Christ died to cover us for that aspect of obedience, maybe now our obedience is something differnent.

Spreading the Gospel maybe or going to Church maybe. Confession maybe. In the sheep and goats separation it seemed to be a lot about not helping.
There were those who didn't help feed, clothe, and visit vs. those who did. That that was a big part of evil vs. righteousness for a transition into the Kingdom.

What I'm getting at is I can see why people ask; Is believing enough?
Is it really that easy? Especially if you believe God lead you to Jesus.
I would think that to be enough.
If God lead me to Jesus then I'd think He would keep me but then I read about obedience and evil vs righteousness as the test for salvation.

Ephesians 2:4-5
But because of His great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, 5made us alive with Christ, even when we were dead in our trespasses. It is by grace you have been saved!

Ephesians 2:8-9
For it is by grace you have been saved through faith, and this not from yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9not by works, so that no one can boast.

 

[RegularJoe]

.

What I'm getting at is I can see why people ask; Is believing enough?
Is it really that easy? Especially if you believe God lead you to Jesus.
I would think that to be enough.
If God lead me to Jesus then I'd think He would keep me but then I read about obedience and evil vs righteousness as the test for salvation.

not by works, so that no one can boast.

For me ... here is how I have found that I find myself associating Believing, & Obedience (aka "works").

Regarding BELIEVING: I accept that being Saved is
as simple as believing Christ is my Savior, etc.
And, AT THE SAME TIME
in order for me to authentically believe I must know WHY.

Regarding OBEDIENCE: In the wake of BOTH, above
I then resultingly end up being so grateful that I find myself routinely trying to do what I can do to be obedient ... not out of guilt or need to serve Him,
just purely out of gratitude.

 

[Artfuldodger]

.

For me ... here is how I have found that I find myself associating Believing, & Obedience (aka "works").

Regarding BELIEVING: I accept that being Saved is
as simple as believing Christ is my Savior, etc.
And, AT THE SAME TIME
in order for me to authentically believe I must know WHY.

Regarding OBEDIENCE: In the wake of BOTH, above
I then resultingly end up being so grateful that I find myself routinely trying to do what I can do to be obedient ... not out of guilt or need to serve Him,
just purely out of gratitude.

How would you describe this obedience? Love, helping, forgiving others?

Maybe not cheating, stealing, overeating, anger, or being jealous.

Worshiping, going to Church, witnessing, or visiting prisoners?

 

[gemcgrew]

How does one obey God?

By being in Christ.

 

[RegularJoe]

How would you describe this obedience?

Apologies in advance if the following seems on the vague side...
I personally dislike vagueness, & yet,
this is only as precise as I am capable of replying.

For me, what I have to do is try to keep aware
(& I am not saying I do a very good job at this :- )
of whatever my most current collective understanding is of how to serve Him,
wherever,
at any moment that I think about it,
I am.

I see me as fully responsible for keeping my above, so called :- ),
'collective understanding' current ....
some examples of means that help me do this is:
1. Review the spritually, including atheistic, posts (all sub-topics) on GON.
2. Spend 5 minutes a day in some kind of Scripture, e.g., www.TheBible.bz
3. Prioritize/ask the most important Q.s,
of the ba-zillion that emerge in my mind and heart,
of thoughtful folks such as you Artfuldodger,
on GON or church or wherever.
Then spend time thinking thru the answers ...
this SURE helps me see what I have been missing.
I REALLY benefit from the thoughts/questions of others.

 

[BassMan31]

Salvation is in Christ alone. The thing is far above and greater than my ability to add or detract.

 

[j_seph]

This comes to mind in obedience.
Seek what we are told to seek, and seek counsel before you do something, which is where I fail at often. I actually know one preacher that is not much older than me and he will pray about when and sometimes even where just to go buy groceries.

Matthew 6:33

33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.


Proverbs 11:14
14 Where no counsel is, the people fall: but in the multitude of counsellors there is safety.


Proverbs 19:20-21

20 Hear counsel, and receive instruction, that thou mayest be wise in thy latter end.

21 There are many devices in a man's heart; nevertheless the counsel of the Lord, that shall stand.

 

[formula1]

The heart knowledge that you have been set free by your heavenly Father completely transforms who you are. Obedience then is not a word or a way to measure yourself but it is new life in honor of the one who made you free.

Most of us struggle to fully comprehend our freedom in the Spirit. Indeed it is difficult to see when almost everything in this world works against it.

Perhaps we should consider preparation for eternal life we are called to and not to the one we exist in! Perhaps that is obedience!

 

[Artfuldodger]

Salvation is in Christ alone. The thing is far above and greater than my ability to add or detract.

Ephesians 2:2
You used to live in sin, just like the rest of the world, obeying the devil--the commander of the powers in the unseen world. He is the spirit at work in the hearts of those who refuse to obey God.

Maybe asked this way; how does one obey the devil? The devil is the spirit at work in the hearts of those who refuse to obey God.

 

[Artfuldodger]

The heart knowledge that you have been set free by your heavenly Father completely transforms who you are. Obedience then is not a word or a way to measure yourself but it is new life in honor of the one who made you free.

Most of us struggle to fully comprehend our freedom in the Spirit. Indeed it is difficult to see when almost everything in this world works against it.

Perhaps we should consider preparation for eternal life we are called to and not to the one we exist in! Perhaps that is obedience!

I do feel I have that freedom until I read Ephesians 2:2. I want to believe the washing took the place of the Devil working in my heart to make me not obey God.

I would like to have that yoke of slavery removed. I'm usually there until I read a certain passage on works and the resurrection. Probably a part of my early childhood indoctrination.

As you are aware, I still get on the religious roller coaster. Just not as often.

 

[BassMan31]

Ephesians 2:2
You used to live in sin, just like the rest of the world, obeying the devil--the commander of the powers in the unseen world. He is the spirit at work in the hearts of those who refuse to obey God.

Maybe asked this way; how does one obey the devil? The devil is the spirit at work in the hearts of those who refuse to obey God.

I see this as a simple thing: I once existed only in sin, now I don't. It was not something I did, but something did for me.

Should one not obey God, they obey the devil. They who aren't for the kingdom are against it. There are no, "fence sitters." Those who are saved have, by definition, obeyed God. Those who do not obey God are not saved and, by definition, obey the devil.

I would step back and examine why you're conflating a fairly trivial doctrine. God is not the author of confusion.

 

[Artfuldodger]

I see this as a simple thing: I once existed only in sin, now I don't. It was not something I did, but something did for me.

Should one not obey God, they obey the devil. They who aren't for the kingdom are against it. There are no, "fence sitters." Those who are saved have, by definition, obeyed God. Those who do not obey God are not saved and, by definition, obey the devil.

I would step back and examine why you're conflating a fairly trivial doctrine. God is not the author of confusion.

I have thought about the "believing" being the obedience. Some verses though sometimes make me feel that there is more. The Ephesians passage says we used to live that way. That by grace we have been saved from the wrath of living that way.

I wonder why Paul said the devil is the spirit at work in the hearts of those who refuse to obey God? If the obey part is just believing? If salvation is from God. If "all" is from God, why did Paul provide so much instruction? Why isn't that the end of it? We are saved, it's all from God. Why did we need Paul?

What really got me looking at obeying God was not even the Ephesians passage. It was reading about the resurrection of good and evil. I started wondering why it isn't the resurrection of the saved and unsaved.
The sheep and the goats separation. The goats never helped, fed, or clothed the people therefore never helped, fed, or clothed Jesus.
The goats never visited Jesus in prison.

Keep my commandments, love thy neighbor, forgive others, walk in obedience, stand firm until the end, love your enemies, do the will of my Father, not only hear but do the word of God, and justified by works and not by faith alone.

I do understand that we are a new creation. Yet I still see and find many verses about obedience. Obedience to God appears to be more than believing. More like following the great commandment and forgiving others.

How can I add or detract from these scriptures when I know that they are there? How can I understand a resurrection of the good and evil if the reality is it's a resurrection of the saved and unsaved?

 

[Artfuldodger]

Jesus taught us to do the will of his Father. Should I assume Jesus is referring to believing? Is that what Jesus meant when he said to act on the Words of scripture instead of just reading them? That obedience means believing?

All that means just believing? If believing brings "all that". If believing brings all the obedience, then why all the instruction? From Jesus, from James, from Paul?
I can see grace fueled obedience but it still appears to be more than believing.

Even though we are saved by grace and not of works. Even though the one who believes has everlasting life. The obedience requirement isn't optional.
So if it's not optional and such a big part of the foundation of Christianity, what is it?

John 14:15
"If you love me, obey my commandments.

Obedience?

 

[Artfuldodger]

How much does obedience to God have to do with our Salvation? Now again I know people will say I'm looking at it all wrong, Christians don't need to dwell on sin, just the Grace of God. The obedience to God will be evident by our fruit. I understand all that and I understand grace, faith, and repentance.
What I don't understand is why are commandments and obedience such a big part of Paul's teaching?

1 Corinthians 7:19
For it makes no difference whether or not a man has been circumcised. The important thing is to keep God's commandments.

Romans 7:12
So then, the law is holy, and the commandment is holy, righteous and good.

Romans 8:7
The mind governed by the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to God's law, nor can it do so.

 

[Artfuldodger]

My other side, and it's all from Paul;

"For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord." Romans 8:38-39

"For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive." I Corinthians 15:22

"Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ" Galatians 4:7

"Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him." Romans 5:9

"There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit" Romans 8:1

"For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death." Romans 8:2

"And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may also be glorified together." Romans 8:17

"Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. "II Corinthians 5:17

Galatians 2:16 - "man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ... for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified."
Ephesians 2:8-9 - "not of works"
2 Timothy 1:9 - "not according to our works"
Titus 3:5 - "not by works of righteousness which we have done"
Romans 3:21-22 - "by the works of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight"
Romans 4:4-5 - "Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt."
Isaiah 64:6 - "all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags"

 

[BANDERSNATCH]

obedience is how you show God you love him I john 5:3

 

[BANDERSNATCH]

Salvation is a gift IF we truly believe that Jesus was God's son and died and rose again. Obedience, though, is a choice we make in showing God that we love Him and appreciate what He's done. Jesus Himself said that the Law would not pass away (even though Christians typically believe He did away with it) and Jesus said that if you keep the commandments OF GOD, and teach others to keep them, YOU WILL BE GREAT IN HEAVEN.