Obey God?

[BANDERSNATCH]

16Therefore let no one judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a festival, a New Moon, or a Sabbath. 17These are a shadow of the things to come, but the body that casts it belongs to Christ.

Impending things, the reality yet to come, a shadow of the things to come.

So, these things haven't came?

Paul states here, written well after Jesus had ascended, that they were a shadow of things to come. Isaiah tells us plainly that we will still be celebrating festivals (Tabernacles in particular) throughout the millennium and also New moons and Sabbaths.

You know, over the last 2000 years people have accused Paul, falsely, of preaching against Moses' Law and telling people not to circumcise their children (Acts 21) and people are still accusing Paul of the same thing today. When Paul arrived in Jerusalem, James warned him that there were "thousands of Christ-believing Jews there who loved the Law" and that they had heard that Paul was preaching against Moses. (Keep in mind, this was late in Paul's life, right before he was taken to Rome) James said, "Just so that we can show them that THERE IS NOTHING TO WHAT THEY HAVE HEARD, we want you to do this...." Then he said, "that way they will all know that you, too, WALK UPRIGHT, KEEPING THE LAW" What was the evidence of Paul walking "Upright"? It was because he kept the law!

In II Peter 3:15-17, Peter warns his readers (written to the Galatians primarily) that Paul's writings were "hard to understand" and that when they listen to naysayers they will be "led away with the error of LAWLESS men, and FALL FROM THEIR SECURE POSITION" (Implying that believers can fall from their secure position if they listen to the words of lawless men.

Anyway, Acts 21 sums up Paul's position, but Christians still today accuse Paul of the same stuff. If you only went by the word's of our Messiah, you'd never thing God didn't want us to obey Him. "If you love me, keep my commandments" Jesus...speaking for the Father.

 

[Artfuldodger]

Paul states here, written well after Jesus had ascended, that they were a shadow of things to come. Isaiah tells us plainly that we will still be celebrating festivals (Tabernacles in particular) throughout the millennium and also New moons and Sabbaths.

You know, over the last 2000 years people have accused Paul, falsely, of preaching against Moses' Law and telling people not to circumcise their children (Acts 21) and people are still accusing Paul of the same thing today. When Paul arrived in Jerusalem, James warned him that there were "thousands of Christ-believing Jews there who loved the Law" and that they had heard that Paul was preaching against Moses. (Keep in mind, this was late in Paul's life, right before he was taken to Rome) James said, "Just so that we can show them that THERE IS NOTHING TO WHAT THEY HAVE HEARD, we want you to do this...." Then he said, "that way they will all know that you, too, WALK UPRIGHT, KEEPING THE LAW" What was the evidence of Paul walking "Upright"? It was because he kept the law!

In II Peter 3:15-17, Peter warns his readers (written to the Galatians primarily) that Paul's writings were "hard to understand" and that when they listen to naysayers they will be "led away with the error of LAWLESS men, and FALL FROM THEIR SECURE POSITION" (Implying that believers can fall from their secure position if they listen to the words of lawless men.

Anyway, Acts 21 sums up Paul's position, but Christians still today accuse Paul of the same stuff. If you only went by the word's of our Messiah, you'd never thing God didn't want us to obey Him. "If you love me, keep my commandments" Jesus...speaking for the Father.

Concerning how Jesus taught about the Kingdom and obeying the commandments, etc. some people say that was during an overlap period of the two covenants. So since Jesus had not died on the Cross yet, he had to teach his followers to keep his Father's commandments.The 40 year period of covenant transitions.

I think some see that period as ending at various times, the Cross, the temple destruction, 70AD, etc.

Paul though as you stated said, a shadow of what "is" to come.

I wonder why so many read it as it having already came? I'm beginning to see why people have trouble understanding what it means to obey God.
That was the whole concept of my question when I started the thread "Obey God"

I've never really been sure what that means. I was slow to even receive answers. Even when I did they were vague.

I'm still not completely sure, but at least I'm learning. I do remember when I was a child to obey God was more than it is now. The 10 commandments were huge. They hung in our Church.

Maybe back then, we needed a "list."

 

[Artfuldodger]

John 13:34-35
A new commandment I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so also you must love one another. 35By this all men will know that you are My disciples, if you love one another.”

John 15:10
If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father's commands and remain in his love.

12 This is my commandment: Love each other in the same way I have loved you.

Why is this a new commandment and why is Jesus telling us to keep "his" commandments just as he has kept his "Father's" commandments?

Does this new commandment from Jesus supersede those of his Father? If by keeping Christ's commandment, are we not obeying God?

If this is enough though, what about when Paul showed up with all his rules? I mean if Loving God and neighbor nullified all the old ones from the Father? Meaning if we truly show God and our brother love, why did Paul have to come along and mess it up with a brand new list?

It's like we had a list, Jesus comes up with a new shorter list, then Paul comes out with an even longer list. If Jesus only said Love, why did Paul have to spell it out with his sin lists?

 

[BANDERSNATCH]

John 13:34-35
A new commandment I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so also you must love one another. 35By this all men will know that you are My disciples, if you love one another.”

John 15:10
If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father's commands and remain in his love.

12 This is my commandment: Love each other in the same way I have loved you.

Why is this a new commandment and why is Jesus telling us to keep "his" commandments just as he has kept his "Father's" commandments?

Does this new commandment from Jesus supersede those of his Father? If by keeping Christ's commandment, are we not obeying God?

If this is enough though, what about when Paul showed up with all his rules? I mean if Loving God and neighbor nullified all the old ones from the Father? Meaning if we truly show God and our brother love, why did Paul have to come along and mess it up with a brand new list?

It's like we had a list, Jesus comes up with a new shorter list, then Paul comes out with an even longer list. If Jesus only said Love, why did Paul have to spell it out with his sin lists?

The "new" commandment is not new...it was already in Leviticus....to love your neighbor as yourself. God said that His law was perfect and that we were not to add to it or take away from it. The greek word there could also mean "Fresh", and probably meant 'fresh' as the commandment was already well known. Also, Jesus said that His doctrine "was not His own" but from the One that sent Him. Jesus also said that what He was speaking was the Father's Words. When the disciples asked Jesus to show them the Father, Jesus said (paraphrased) "He's standing right in front of you for a while now!"

 

[BassMan31]

I believe that once we are (truly) saved, we will have evidence in our lives to reflect that, i.e. obedience to God and His commandments.

James 2:18 - But someone will say, " You have faith, and I have works." Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith BY my works.

"Truly" is an interesting word, to me. Can one be "falsely" saved?

 

[BANDERSNATCH]

Well, actually no one is saved yet, as the bible tells us that "those who endure to the end, will be saved"....just like the Hebrews that came out of Egypt. We are actually "being saved" as listed in I Corinthians 1:18 I believe...

 

[StriperAddict]

I served that terrible moralistic shamed based view of myself for years until the gravity of the cross and the grace of God began unraveling the distortions of the fruit of that first tree. Spiritual death, specifically, loss of God-man union can be swallowed up in Another's perfect obedience. It's a matter of deliberate direction then, not so much the how-to means of my lousy law-based obedience. Knowing the gift of Life and the Life Giver is so much more enjoyable (restful) as our trust and growth in truth is settled in dependence on vine-branch reality. We can't push the fruit along in our self-sufficiency! He promised to live in and thru us, wow ... a perfect work for man to be indwelt ! The cross and resurrection worked then. How precious (cool) is that?

 

[BANDERSNATCH]

I agree, Stripe! A true vine-branch relationship will produce fruit that can be seen by others! I started my walk in Christ when I was like 13, and accepted our Lord through faith in His atoning work. I was grace-based for the next 40 years, only accepting what He had done for me and not giving back and ignoring His pleas to show Him love. When I stopped ignoring the front of the book, and learned that the only way He has asked us to show Him love is by obeying Him FROM OUR HEART, my walk with Him changed! He promises...

John 14:21 HE THAT LOVETH ME, and keeps my commandments, he it is that loveth me: and he that loves me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, AND MANIFEST MYSELF TO HIM!

I've never felt Him closer than I do now since I started honoring Sabbath and learning what His ETERNAL covenant was. "This is love for God, by keeping His commandments, and His commandments are not a burden" He wants us to have a circumcised heart, not one that only accepts the gift He gave us - salvation- but a heart that LOVES HIM and wants to show Him that we love Him the ONLY WAY HE ASKED US TO SHOW HIM