Oldest artfacts so far

[KentuckyHeadhunter]

Very interesting find in Idaho. It appears stemmed points pre-dated the Clovis points in this case. How deep will it go?

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/culture/2019/08/coopers-landing-idaho-site-americas-oldest/

 

[Nicodemus]

That`s interesting. I still think as we learn more about the Solutreans, we will find out that occupation on this continent will be pushed many thousands of years further back into prehistory. And the race of these people will be a shocker to many. And a heartbreak to many.

 

[Sixes]

I wish it would of shown examples to see the differences instead of going on carbon dating

 

[KentuckyHeadhunter]

Hey Sixes if you Google image search Cooper's Ferry artifacts you will get some images. The points remind me of Adena contracting or vanishing stem points.

 

[KentuckyHeadhunter]

Here is a Clovis compared to a point that is possibly 3 thousand years older.

 

[Sixes]

Thanks for the pic, no similarities at all.

They favor Solutrean points.

 

[NCHillbilly]

The archaeologists are so locked into the Clovis-first theory that they immediately discount anything that goes against it. The Topper Site in SC, Meadowcroft in PA, Cactus Hill in VA, are all pre-Clovis sites that have been bashed by the closed-minded elites.

They did the same thing for a long time refusing to believe that people were here in the Pleistocene times. All the prevailing theories gave humans 200-3000 years in the Ameica at most. All the first finds of mammoth kill sites and such were discounted offhand by Hrdlicka and his cronies who ran the American archaeological community. It took the folks at the Folsom site sticking to their guns and almost forcefully bringing the big boys in to witness what could not be refuted -fluted Folsom points imbedded in situ in extinct bison-before it was accepted that there were Ice-age people here. I think people have been here for a long, long time. Many different races of folks, to boot.

 

[Philhutch80]

The archaeologists are so locked into the Clovis-first theory that they immediately discount anything that goes against it. The Topper Site in SC, Meadowcroft in PA, Cactus Hill in VA, are all pre-Clovis sites that have been bashed by the closed-minded elites.

They did the same thing for a long time refusing to believe that people were here in the Pleistocene times. All the prevailing theories gave humans 200-3000 years in the Ameica at most. All the first finds of mammoth kill sites and such were discounted offhand by Hrdlicka and his cronies who ran the American archaeological community. It took the folks at the Folsom site sticking to their guns and almost forcefully bringing the big boys in to witness what could not be refuted -fluted Folsom points imbedded in situ in extinct bison-before it was accepted that there were Ice-age people here. I think people have been here for a long, long time. Many different races of folks, to boot.

Classic uniformitarianism way of thinking in academia today. It is unfortunate that their ego's are so large they cannot have their theories questioned. Are you a fan of Randall Carlson by chance?

 

[QSVC]

I'm a big Graham Hancock/Randall Carlson fan. Laugh all you want but they are fact-based, compelling and vindicated by new finds each and every year. If they are even 1% right the entire human record in N. America is upended. EG: Hancock's book, America Before, published earlier this year talks about the significance of Moundville, AL site and its connections to for ancient mythology. I ran into an archaeologist just now researching this a few months ago and everything she said is basically what's in the book. She'd never heard of it.

 

[NCHillbilly]

Classic uniformitarianism way of thinking in academia today. It is unfortunate that their ego's are so large they cannot have their theories questioned. Are you a fan of Randall Carlson by chance?

Not so much. He has some interesting theories, but a lot of it needs to be taken with a grain of salt. I find Graham Hancock to be more interesting. I don't agree with a lot of their thinking, but some of it makes sense for sure. I think it's dangerous to get locked into any mindset. Guys like that keep the speculation going, and may very well be right on some or more than some things. There is a whole lot that we don't know, and probably a lot that we think we know but don't.

 

[NCHillbilly]

I do tend to agree quite strongly with Bruce Bradley and Dennis Stanford and their theories.

 

[Philhutch80]

Not so much. He has some interesting theories, but a lot of it needs to be taken with a grain of salt. I find Graham Hancock to be more interesting. I don't agree with a lot of their thinking, but some of it makes sense for sure. I think it's dangerous to get locked into any mindset. Guys like that keep the speculation going, and may very well be right on some or more than some things. There is a whole lot that we don't know, and probably a lot that we think we know but don't.

It's funny that you mention Graham as I think Randall's theories are more concrete than some of what Graham has proposed. I do like to listen to all sides though and their points (no pun intended) about the Clovis people and how it ties in with the Younger Dryas events are very interesting when compared with some other geologist's theories from out west. I try to question everything and put an amalgum of their thoughts and more mainstream theories together.

 

[Philhutch80]

I do tend to agree quite strongly with Bruce Bradley and Dennis Stanford and their theories.

Those are two additional folks I have been told I need to research myself. If you have some recommended reading I am all ears.

 

[Nicodemus]

Those are two additional folks I have been told I need to research myself. If you have some recommended reading I am all ears.

Here`s one for starters.

https://www.amazon.com/Search-Ice-Age-Americans/dp/1586850210

 

[NCHillbilly]

Those are two additional folks I have been told I need to research myself. If you have some recommended reading I am all ears.

Dr. Bradley has a website with a bunch of info and links on it. One book I find quite interesting that deals more with the lithic aspect of the Paleo peoples is Bob Patton's Peoples of the Flute.

 

[Philhutch80]

This thread turned into a gem of information sharing. Thank you gentlemen for giving me some other avenues to explore. Do either of you enjoy the Youtubes for some of the varying information?
One thing I have wanted to speak with some geologist about as well as Randall is how Georgia got some of it's hanging valleys it has. There are very few but if you know where to look, they are there. Would like to go hunt for points up hill from some of these areas as well as downstream where water would have slowed down.

 

[QSVC]

Here's the first (I believe) Joe Rogan podcast with the 2 of them.

If you can listen to that and not be intrigued at least I don't know what to do for you.

 

[Bigga Trust]

That`s interesting. I still think as we learn more about the Solutreans, we will find out that occupation on this continent will be pushed many thousands of years further back into prehistory. And the race of these people will be a shocker to many. And a heartbreak to many.

A majority of archaeologists and anthropologists reject the Solutrean "hypothesis". It doesn't fit their world view and not politically correct. If this was proved with indisputable evidence, you would see Govt public schools drop any curriculum regarding ancient America like hot pow wow chow.

 

[Philhutch80]

Here's the first (I believe) Joe Rogan podcast with the 2 of them.

If you can listen to that and not be intrigued at least I don't know what to do for you.

I’ve watched all of those as well as Randall’s Geocosmicrex YouTube channel. I also follow the Central Washington U’s channel. Nick Zetner is the geologist there. Interesting hearing how vastly these theories differ yet how much more concrete Randall’s theories are starting to be accepted as a result. Great stuff. Thanks for sharing.

 

[NCHillbilly]

Scott Silsby once showed me an almost classic Solutrean laurel leaf point that was dredged up off the coast of Virginia by a fishing net or some such (in an area that would have been dry land during the Pleistocene.) It was made from high-grade Pennsylvania rhyolite.