Paul's salutations, no Holy Spirit?

Thread starter #1
  • To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ (Romans 1:7).
  • Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ (I Corinthians 1:3).
  • Grace be to you and peace from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ (II Corinthians 1:2).
  • Grace be to you and peace from God the Father, and from our Lord Jesus Christ (Galatians 1:3).
  • Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ (Ephesians 1:2).
 
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John 17:3
And this is the way to have eternal life--to know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, the one you sent to earth.

In Jesus name we pray to the Father.
 
I don't consider this a disconnect, Art. The Ephesian believers, for instance, were claimed by God for Himself, and He put His seal, the Holy Spirit, upon them (Eph. 1:13).

God's Holy Spirit enables the believers enjoy that incredible place of nearness/oneness and liberty God had given to them before the Father. This is seen in all the epistles, yes?
 
Thread starter #4
John 17:11
I will remain in the world no longer, but they are still in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, protect them by the power of your name, the name you gave me, so that they may be one as we are one.

What about the Holy Spirit? There seems to be a lot more Father and Son in scripture and not so much Holy Spirit. Maybe it was like the gospel. It was always there but people didn't see it. Grace was always there but people didn't see it. The true children were always there but people didn't see it.

You's think though by the time Paul came around, he would have been more on top of the Trinity. He could have used his revelation to explain it more. Unless that wasn't part of his revelation.
 
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Thread starter #5
Paul does teach the Holy Spirit as well as the others. Pentecostals really teach the Holy Spirit.

Jesus wanted the disciples to experience the unity he had with his Father. No mention of the unity he had with the Holy Spirit. Jesus will turn the Kingdom over to his Father. No mention of turning the Kingdom over to the Holy Spirit.

John 17:5
And now, Father, glorify Me in Your presence with the glory I had with You before the world existed.

John 17:24
"Father, I want those you have given me to be with me where I am, and to see my glory, the glory you have given me because you loved me before the creation of the world.

Christianity seems to be more about the relationship or unity of God the Father with his Son than with the Holy Spirit.

The unity of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is there. It's just not mentioned as much as the unity of the Father and Son.
 
Thread starter #6
I don't consider this a disconnect, Art. The Ephesian believers, for instance, were claimed by God for Himself, and He put His seal, the Holy Spirit, upon them (Eph. 1:13).

God's Holy Spirit enables the believers enjoy that incredible place of nearness/oneness and liberty God had given to them before the Father. This is seen in all the epistles, yes?
Followed with Ephesians 1:14
who is the guarantee of our inheritance to the redemption of the acquired possession, to the praise of His glory.

Goes along with your Grace thread perfectly as well.

I guess what I feel and is in your phrasing "God's Holy Spirit" is it's the Father's spirit. In other words when I hear the word "God" I think of the Father. God's spirit or God's son. Even if they are all in unity, to me it's the Father's son and the Father's spirit.
Just my way of thinking I guess.
 
Jesus will turn the Kingdom over to his Father. No mention of turning the Kingdom over to the Holy Spirit.
Romans 14:17
17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.

According to this text, the Holy Spirit is already very much involved in the kingdom.
 

1gr8bldr

Senior Member
God is Holy, God is spirit. Thus the NT's use of "Holy Spirit", is not a surprise. Because of the new covenant. The spirit of God coming to live in the hearts of man rather than a temple of brick and mortar deserves a new way of referencing it. Really strange how "a third coequal person" of a triune god ever evolved, especially with so very little to substantiate it. Plus the complete void of it in any writings up to the 300's. Then the clear evidence of the battle of it's acceptance in the 400's. Clearly not "the gospel first entrusted to the saints"
 
Thread starter #9
Today being Father's day and thinking of our Heavenly Father. A Father must have children or at least a child to be a Father.

If God always had a Son then he has always been a Father.
 
Thread starter #10
God is Holy, God is spirit. Thus the NT's use of "Holy Spirit", is not a surprise. Because of the new covenant. The spirit of God coming to live in the hearts of man rather than a temple of brick and mortar deserves a new way of referencing it. Really strange how "a third coequal person" of a triune god ever evolved, especially with so very little to substantiate it. Plus the complete void of it in any writings up to the 300's. Then the clear evidence of the battle of it's acceptance in the 400's. Clearly not "the gospel first entrusted to the saints"
I was thinking about how much scripture there is related to the Father and the Son but not the Holy Spirit so much. Verses like John 3:16 where God gave us his Son. It doesn't say God and the Holy Spirit gave us his Son. It's more like God giving us his Son and God giving us his Spirit.
 
Thread starter #11
Romans 14:17
17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.

According to this text, the Holy Spirit is already very much involved in the kingdom.
Yes he is a big part of the Kingdom. Paul mentions Christ handing the Kingdom over to his Father. Why didn't Paul mention the Son and the Holy Spirit handing the Kingdom over to the Father?
 
Yes he is a big part of the Kingdom. Paul mentions Christ handing the Kingdom over to his Father. Why didn't Paul mention the Son and the Holy Spirit handing the Kingdom over to the Father?
Jesus told Nicodemus a person cannot even see the kingdom unless he is first regenerated by the Holy Spirit (born again).
 
God is Holy, God is spirit. Thus the NT's use of "Holy Spirit", is not a surprise. Because of the new covenant. The spirit of God coming to live in the hearts of man rather than a temple of brick and mortar deserves a new way of referencing it. Really strange how "a third coequal person" of a triune god ever evolved, especially with so very little to substantiate it. Plus the complete void of it in any writings up to the 300's. Then the clear evidence of the battle of it's acceptance in the 400's. Clearly not "the gospel first entrusted to the saints"
The Spirit worked in the Old testament saints the same way as the new. We know this from the evidence of the fruit(Gal.5:22-23)
Hebrews 11 speaks of numerous old testament saints who received faith.
 

Miguel Cervantes

GON Severe Weatherman
Why start with all of the other letters and not Paul's first letter? Why not First Thessalonians? If Paul had never mentioned the Holy Spirit that would be one thing, but it simply isn't so.
 
There is another absence of the HS.... in heaven?
 
Thread starter #17
I do realize that Paul and other writers write about the Holy Spirit. I realize the Holy Spirit is a big part of the Kingdom.

What I'm talking about though is the Holy Spirit isn't addressed along with the Father and Son that much. He is mostly mentioned working alone.
The Holy Spirit isn't mentioned when we think of the Father and Son relationship. The verses about that relationship don't consider the Holy Spirit.

The dialogue between the Father and his Son is in scripture. We don't see that dialogue between between the Father and his Spirit. We don't see the dialogue between the three.

We do see God speaking through the Spirit or working through the Spirit as he did through Jesus. Jesus talked to God when he did this. Maybe there are some verse where the Holy Spirit talks to God like Jesus did.
 
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Thread starter #18
John 14:16
And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever--
or
And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Helper, to be with you forever,

John 16:17
But very truly I tell you, it is for your good that I am going away. Unless I go away, the Advocate will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you.

First Jesus is in a subordinate roll as Son "asking" his Father. True he is still on the earth, if this is your excuse. Second the Father will send another Helper." The Helper/Advocate/Councelor/Holy Spirit is being "sent" by the Father just as Jesus was sent by the Father.
God so love the world he gave us his Son. God will send us a Helper.

Also appears that Jesus had a mission, returns to Heaven and the Holy Spirit appears for His mission.

John 7:39
He was speaking about the Spirit, whom those who believed in Him were later to receive. For the Spirit had not yet been given, because Jesus had not yet been glorified.

It's more like the Father is God and his Son and Spirit play subordinate roles. When scripture delves into it, it's the Father and his Son relationship or the Father and his Spirit relationship. Still though the unity of the three is there.
God in the role of a powerful Father with his Son and Spirit as subordinates, doesn't take away from the Unity of the Three.

The Trinity is there, just not as co-equals.
 
In the OT, there is occasion of God's spirit moving among men to empower them
Everywhere present, nowhere absent.
(read Psalm 139)
Nope, not one mention of the HS in heaven. We see visions of the Father and Son, but never the HS. If the son sits at the right hand of the Father, is the HS sitting on the left..???? It don't say.
 
Thread starter #20
Maybe God and his Son have always been spiritual but with some tie to a later human existence. Man is created and God becomes human through his Son. Then we in turn can become spiritual through his Son, who once again has become spiritual as well.

In the process of the Son's unity with his Father, with the Son becoming man, dying on the Cross, we are given a bit of this Unity through the Spirit of God. Eventually this unity grows until we see Jesus as he is.
 
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