Peak Incubation for hen turkeys in GA

[XIronheadX]

Fact is, science has never proved anything. It's not designed to. The data always changes(for a population in Ga. North, South, which photoperiod?). Hypothesis and Theory. Only Math and logic proves something.

The only math relation is the amount of hunters that show up the first couple of weekends. And that's why the kill numbers are high then. If you made them wait until the flocks broke up, and hens were harder to come across before they entered the woods, it would be mass extinction of mature toms. Instead, they have taken their blinds and decoys and gone home by mid April when mature Toms seek hens. There are many ways to interpret data gathered from different studies, of which this is one.

The biologists supplied some data. He gave a data table showing where incubation levels out and peaks over a few days time. If another line was drawn on May 15th, I don't know how much better the plateau and peak of the graph could coincide. It would be dead in the middle. The season starts after nesting starts in the graph as southern states biologists suggest. He said tweak at best. And mentioned traditional and political pressure influencing the tweak. Unless there's info that's not being provided.

 

[Buckman18]

My land is managed just as well as any in the state. You live in the mountains where turkeys are doing just fine. Come to the piedmont, it's atrocious. I'm not trying to argue with you, i'm just saying that you haven't seen it first hand and saying that the state (as a whole) has no problem is just 100% false. I know sooooo many people in the piedmont that have lost turkeys and have not killed them. They trap, and burn, and plant, etc. It's a real problem. Around where I grew up I promise you there is not 10% of the turkey population there was 10 years ago. Look at the kills at PNWR since 2013. Look at the kills on ONF, Cedar Creek, BF Grant, etc. It is an issue. A PROVEN issue.

I have a lease in Mcduffie County that I tend to hunt early in the season, so I have experience in the Piedmont. We have turkeys. Some years more than others.

Your argument of reducing hunter opportunity will not make a difference, good or bad. Hunter impact has a minimal effect on turkey populations overall. There are many many many leases in our state that never even see a turkey hunter, as their are over 6 deer hunters for every turkey hunter in our state.

Furthermore, would you believe that hunting pressure is LESS today than 20 years ago? Here’s what I found online in the past 5 minutes. ~80,000 hunters in 2001, ~50,000 in 2018.

http://www.gameandfishmag.com/
south/georgia/2018-georgia-spring-turkey-hunting-outlook-2/

http://georgiawildlife.com/sites/de...mmaries/turkey/TurkeyProductionSurvey2001.pdf

I can tell you are a passionate turkey hunter, but campaigning to reduce my hunting opportunity will not magically create more turkeys. Zeroing in on better recruitment is the answer in my opinion.

Habitat improvement and predator control are your tickets to more turkeys.

 

[buckpasser]

Buckman18, I’ve seen stats and information suggesting that turkey hunter numbers have declined, but that too must be regional. In my area (extreme SW GA), there are many more turkey hunters than twenty years ago. I’d be guessing for an exact number, but I’d bet everything I own that it’s at least doubled and likely tripled in popularity. The problem for us is, a huge number of these “hunters” do not respect season dates, baiting laws, or bag limits. Turkey hunting had become a trend here for a pile of folks that don’t appreciate wild turkeys at all. It’s just a photo op and a man card endorsement.

 

[Turkeytider]

Buckman18, I’ve seen stats and information suggesting that turkey hunter numbers have declined, but that too must be regional. In my area (extreme SW GA), there are many more turkey hunters than twenty years ago. I’d be guessing for an exact number, but I’d bet everything I own that it’s at least doubled and likely tripled in popularity. The problem for us is, a huge number of these “hunters” do not respect season dates, baiting laws, or bag limits. Turkey hunting had become a trend here for a pile of folks that don’t appreciate wild turkeys at all. It’s just a photo op and a man card endorsement.

The "hunters" to which you refer are the same ones who trespass on another man`s property, leave gates open, etc. etc They have no character or dignity and would scoff at the notion of "loving" the game we`re privileged to hunt and harvest. They weren`t raised properly in all likelihood. I`ve always felt that if you take, you should try to find a way to give something back. Maybe leave a dove field a little cleaner than you found it. Pick up a piece of trash from that lake, stream or shore where you enjoy fishing. Join an advocacy group (DU, Quail Unlimited, Audubon Society, Nature Conservancy, NWTF, something ). Give back.

 

[Mark K]

Some areas have turkeys and some don’t. Some had turkeys and now don’t. Some never had and now do. Some have turkeys and still do. And some never had and never will.

So if we’re killing too many turkeys too early when it’s “tough” how many do they think we’ll kill when it’s “easier”...when the hens are incubating?

As far as people killing them out of season and you know about it, then you’re just as guilty of poaching as they are.

As stated, habitat and predator control goes a long ways for turkey numbers. Then again, so does self control. A man was asking me about protein and deer this morning at our local feed store. I told him if he bought me a bag of corn that I’d tell him a guaranteed product to produce larger deer, larger antlers, and more numbers...he agreed then wanted to know the “magic secret”...I just held up my index finger. He didn’t get it at first, but then said you got me. Trigger control will really help on your property or even public land for both deer and turkeys.

I don’t see where reducing the season will help, but if they really believe that, then just make it a week long season for a year and see if it does really work. Or even close the season for a year. That should definitely get the numbers up. The predators would truly appreciate it.

 

[XIronheadX]

The turkey harvest in 2008 was the same as 2017. Up and down it will go. Throw in a couple of wet years and a hurricane through SW Ga. And last year wasn't far off the numbers for 2007 with 4,000 less hunters.

 

[buckpasser]

Some areas have turkeys and some don’t. Some had turkeys and now don’t. Some never had and now do. Some have turkeys and still do. And some never had and never will.

So if we’re killing too many turkeys too early when it’s “tough” how many do they think we’ll kill when it’s “easier”...when the hens are incubating?

As far as people killing them out of season and you know about it, then you’re just as guilty of poaching as they are.

As stated, habitat and predator control goes a long ways for turkey numbers. Then again, so does self control. A man was asking me about protein and deer this morning at our local feed store. I told him if he bought me a bag of corn that I’d tell him a guaranteed product to produce larger deer, larger antlers, and more numbers...he agreed then wanted to know the “magic secret”...I just held up my index finger. He didn’t get it at first, but then said you got me. Trigger control will really help on your property or even public land for both deer and turkeys.

I don’t see where reducing the season will help, but if they really believe that, then just make it a week long season for a year and see if it does really work. Or even close the season for a year. That should definitely get the numbers up. The predators would truly appreciate it.

I doubt you’d say that “just as guilty” thing if we were talking about it at the cafe somewhere face to face instead of from a keyboard. I’ve been through the spill many times of trying to help Mr Green Jeans and even confronted people myself (as is documented on here). As I said earlier, this is an honor system state. There is little hope of enough arrests happening and even less hope of an impactful or any sized penalty happening in court. It’s a joke and every poacher around here knows it. This isn’t Montana, and nobody is really too scared of game violation consequences. That’s my explanation of why the super late start date will not be a great idea here. I’d probably be for an earlier start date to at least level the playing field.

 

[Mark K]

I doubt you’d say that “just as guilty” thing if we were talking about it at the cafe somewhere face to face instead of from a keyboard. I’ve been through the spill many times of trying to help Mr Green Jeans and even confronted people myself (as is documented on here). As I said earlier, this is an honor system state. There is little hope of enough arrests happening and even less hope of an impactful or any sized penalty happening in court. It’s a joke and every poacher around here knows it. This isn’t Montana, and nobody is really too scared of game violation consequences. That’s my explanation of why the super late start date will not be a great idea here. I’d probably be for an earlier start date to at least level the playing field.

Where we eating? And are you buying?

 

[buckpasser]

Where we eating? And are you buying?

Ha! You’re a mess Mark K. Gotta get out of the woods and tractor for a minute. I’ll come to Camilla to the buffet. I’m buying. It’s frustrating to hear the guilty quote when you do your part and all you legally can, but this state can’t keep up with even a fraction of turkey violations, that’s all.

 

[Mark K]

One GW for every 3 counties is about all we got it seems. I shot a nice bird on a WMA and drove all over the dang thing just trying to find someone or anyone to take my pic with the bird and couldn’t find a soul! Don’t think turkeys are high on their list. Now let it be a dove shoot and 3-4 will show up!

 

[antharper]

One GW for every 3 counties is about all we got it seems. I shot a nice bird on a WMA and drove all over the dang thing just trying to find someone or anyone to take my pic with the bird and couldn’t find a soul! Don’t think turkeys are high on their list. Now let it be a dove shoot and 3-4 will show up!

Ain’t that the truth about a dove shoot !

 

[mallardsx2]

I dont feel this would be a complete topic of discussion if I didn't give my $.02. lol

Shut the season down for a year. Study the birds and poult recruitment.

Then make adjustments and fire the season back up.

I would gladly give up a full season of hunting for the DNR to get the data needed for the next 25 years or more.

Would you?

 

[Mark K]

I dont feel this would be a complete topic of discussion if I didn't give my $.02. lol

Shut the season down for a year. Study the birds and poult recruitment.

Then make adjustments and fire the season back up.

I would gladly give up a full season of hunting for the DNR to get the data needed for the next 25 years or more.

Would you?

Plenty of other states to hunt, lol. I’d get my fix one way or the other.
What is really humorous, is come Fall, someone will ask why doesn’t Georgia have a Fall Turkey season with all the big flocks of birds they’re seeing?!?

 

[Mark K]

Or even better yet, break it down throughout the state like other States do...like they do for deer.
Say these certain counties open during this period with a limit of such and such, and these counties open at this time with a limit of such and such.
It’s already been stated not the entire state has a problem, so that should fly pretty easily.

 

[mallardsx2]

Or even better yet, break it down throughout the state like other States do...like they do for deer.
Say these certain counties open during this period with a limit of such and such, and these counties open at this time with a limit of such and such.
It’s already been stated not the entire state has a problem, so that should fly pretty easily.

I would vote for that. It makes sense.

While they are at it they should reduce the limit to one bird statewide.

 

[Gut_Pile]

Or even better yet, break it down throughout the state like other States do...like they do for deer.
Say these certain counties open during this period with a limit of such and such, and these counties open at this time with a limit of such and such.
It’s already been stated not the entire state has a problem, so that should fly pretty easily.

I think it would be great for the state to be broken and managed in regions.

 

[buckpasser]

I dont feel this would be a complete topic of discussion if I didn't give my $.02. lol

Shut the season down for a year. Study the birds and poult recruitment.

Then make adjustments and fire the season back up.

I would gladly give up a full season of hunting for the DNR to get the data needed for the next 25 years or more.

Would you?

Gladly? No!

We already do right by not having a fall season, or a hen season. The only reason to tighten up bag limits etc would be if we truly believe there are hens that are having difficulty getting bred (I don’t buy that). A DAILY BAG LIMIT of 1 would be a great start if this is just for improving the experience of the hunter. Shutting the season down is way over the top. Turkeys will rebound on their own. In the words of Aaron Rodgers, R, E, L, A, X.

 

[Buckman18]

I’m with the other 99% who says hunter harvest is a non issue, and that nothing needs to be done. At least Macon to Augusta north.

 

[Mark K]

I have plenty of other states to hunt that are generous so shutting it down to one bird or down completely for a year is fine with me! Hate leaving during Georgia’s season anyways, lol!!

 

[mallardsx2]

I just wish they would do something to get the population up. Georgia has some of the best habitat a turkey could ever ask for. The only think I see different than other states are the following 3 items:

- We open the season too early.(Can be managed)
- We have a 3 gobbler harvest.(Can be managed)
- Too many predators (Can be managed)

The turkey population is suffering because one or a combination of these 3 items.

Yet nobody will recognize or wants to admit we have an issue in the northerns half of the state (I can speak for anything south of Hancock county) and It cant be blamed on hen kills because we dont have a hen season.

Hopefully that new turkey biologist has some conclusive results from the WMA that opened two weeks later than usual.

Next year, who knows maybe they will open the season a couple weeks later with a 1 bird limit. Im really hoping for that. Who on earth feels it necessary/appropriate to the resource to shoot 3 turkeys in one spring? Seriously..