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Red wolves
- Thread starter Jimmypop
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someguyintraffic
Senior Member
Beautiful dogs. Why would F&W not protect them?
Red Wolves Romp in the Snow:
Red Wolves Romp in the Snow:
Miguel Cervantes
Jedi Master
Sometimes I wonder about our Government and who's pulling their strings.
Would love to see them protect this species.
Would love to see them protect this species.
GeorgiaGlockMan
Senior Member
Someguy....thanks for the video.
Amazing how close they look to the coyotes in Lincoln county!
Amazing how close they look to the coyotes in Lincoln county!
If you owned property in the area around the ARNWR, you might have a different feeling about them. The USFWS has been lying to and stomping all over the property rights of the people down there for years. Heavily. And the red wolves there are pretty much all interbred heavily with coyotes now, anyway.
someguyintraffic
Senior Member
They're all heavily interbred says who, you?
Property owners who are shooting them and claiming coyote?
Their number one cause of death is gunshot.
Have a friend that worked his apprenticeship/ internship assisting transport and restocking of breeding pair reintroduction of red wolves in NC.
I was told they exclusively breed with one another and breeding pairs and dens will kill every coyote that comes in their range.
This was a F&W guy that worked for the same dept that now doesn't want to protect them so what's really going on?
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someguyintraffic
Senior Member
Breeding pairs of red wolves won't tolerate interloper coyotes.
A mature male red wolf will top out at 80 lbs. They are taller and heavier than coyotes.
A mature male red wolf will top out at 80 lbs. They are taller and heavier than coyotes.
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someguyintraffic
Senior Member
I'm not saying interbreeding doesnt happen because it does and it is due to being shot and killed into dwindling numbers.
Our 40 lb eastern coyote are proof positive of wolf genes. Coyotes are naturally small dogs.
The species should be saved not become another on the list that man has done away with.
Our 40 lb eastern coyote are proof positive of wolf genes. Coyotes are naturally small dogs.
The species should be saved not become another on the list that man has done away with.
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someguyintraffic
Senior Member
I think y'all need to do some research. Interbreeding with coyotes is considered the #1 threat to the survival of the red wolf as a species, and is the main reason that the last remaining wild ones were captured. Most of those were too hybridized to be part of the breeding program. It is still a big problem, the main problem according to many, with the introduced red wolf population at the ARNWR.
I get this from published scientific papers, not some guy or myself. How about this, from the USFWS's own website?
"Approximately 100 red wolves roam their native habitats in five northeastern North Carolina counties. Interbreeding with the coyote has been recognized as the most significant and detrimental threat affecting restoration of red wolves in this section of their historical home range. "
Furthermore, a recent DNA /genome study by geneticists at UCLA brings into question whether the red wolf is even an actual species-its genome showed the red wolves they tested to be basically 75% coyote, 25% gray wolf. It's thrown a big screwdriver into the cogs of the restoration program.
I get this from published scientific papers, not some guy or myself. How about this, from the USFWS's own website?
"Approximately 100 red wolves roam their native habitats in five northeastern North Carolina counties. Interbreeding with the coyote has been recognized as the most significant and detrimental threat affecting restoration of red wolves in this section of their historical home range. "
Furthermore, a recent DNA /genome study by geneticists at UCLA brings into question whether the red wolf is even an actual species-its genome showed the red wolves they tested to be basically 75% coyote, 25% gray wolf. It's thrown a big screwdriver into the cogs of the restoration program.
blood on the ground
Cross threading is better than two lock washers.
The argument that never ends...
Completely and totally the opposite of all available scientific evidence.
someguyintraffic
Senior Member
Active breeding pairs will not tolerate coyotes. Interbreeding is happening now because too long numbers have been eradicated due to uneducated shooters claiming coyote.
Even at that explain the Cades Cove project where red wolf pups were found dead of parvovirus and live red wolf pups removed from the last few breeding pairs captured and returned to captivity. Even those handful of dogs weren't interbreeding with coyotes on the Cades Cove project.
They also weren't being shot by official county voted. policy and defunded like Rep. Helms sought to do with Alligator River red wolf programs.
Even at that explain the Cades Cove project where red wolf pups were found dead of parvovirus and live red wolf pups removed from the last few breeding pairs captured and returned to captivity. Even those handful of dogs weren't interbreeding with coyotes on the Cades Cove project.
They also weren't being shot by official county voted. policy and defunded like Rep. Helms sought to do with Alligator River red wolf programs.
someguyintraffic
Senior Member
Lol so I got first hand Info from a USFWS employee and you got it from the internet. Mmmmkay
Interbreeding is a speciel response to no like mates. Shooting maw red wolf's paw red wolf will trigger her to mate with another paw red wolf. If he aint available senor yote will in a pinch.
Interbreeding isnt their problem. Its the locals.
someguyintraffic
Senior Member
The entire reason they were near extinction is man, the entire reason they were forced to interbreed was man, the entire reason the red wolf in Alligator River is so few is man, shooting them.
Go to FWS.gov red wolf and read the press releases.
For years 75% of the postings have been rewards offered for info on shot red wolves being found radio collar attached. The locals are killing them off and you have idiot lawyers standing up in hearings claiming the program is unsustainable. Federally protected animal being killed wholesale and no arrests ever.
Sickening. Their habitat ranged from texas to NH once.
Go to FWS.gov red wolf and read the press releases.
For years 75% of the postings have been rewards offered for info on shot red wolves being found radio collar attached. The locals are killing them off and you have idiot lawyers standing up in hearings claiming the program is unsustainable. Federally protected animal being killed wholesale and no arrests ever.
Sickening. Their habitat ranged from texas to NH once.
Really, did you read the USFWS's statement? I guess you know better than the USFWS and the scientists. I yield to your superior intellect. Also, ask why they're scrapping it. Couldn't be the interbreeding. Ask also why the USFWS is turning loose sterilized coyote females with the woofs.
Would you want the USFWS taking over control of your land because an endangered wolf was on it? It has happened. A lot. They also lied like dogs to the state of NC about how many they were going to release, and where.
We now have pretty much new, improved red wolves all over the southeast.
Sadly, I think the days of that style of red wolf have come and gone. Like the passenger pigeon and Carolina parakeet and ivory-billed woodpecker, they can't adapt to the new human-dominated landscape of the southeast, and they can't compete with the new brush wolf that has evolved to fill their niche. Nature abhors a vacuum. The southeastern coyote/wolf hybrid we have now is here to stay, and it has replaced the red wolf. They tried re-introducing red wolves here in the Smokies over several years. It didn't work, except that it gave us bigger, more wolf-like "coyotes" as they interbred.
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someguyintraffic
Senior Member
Wrong. Red wolves mate for life in bonded pairs. Maybe you need the research???
someguyintraffic
Senior Member
All over the southeast like they used to be? My gawd how terrible.
Red wolves mate for life in bonded pairs. The Alligator River program is failing because local hicks are shooting Federally protected animals without repercussion. Go to FWS.gov red wolves the near entire press release is rewards for info about shot wolves.
someguyintraffic
Senior Member
Lol superior intellect? Yet youre claiming official govt agency statements as your platform argument? Lol, I yield the floor.
I am also claiming several published scientific papers. And you are the one believing the government rhetoric about why the program has failed. It has failed because red wolves and "coyotes" can't quit getting busy. The same reason the red wolf is endangered to begin with.
And I am not anti-wolf, and if you'll read back on here, I have been cussed for not condemning and hating our "coyotes." I do not think coyotes and/or wolves are detrimental in the overall scheme of things. I would be glad to see more wolves, panthers, and other predators roaming around.
I'm not anti-wolf, I'm just realistic. Talk to some landowners around the ARNWR, and you'll see why they get shot. These aren't ignorant hicks, either. The USFWS has run rough-shod over those folks and basically taken over control of their land, per the ESA. They originally said they were going to release six pairs on the refuge, but released over a hundred both on federal land and private property. And if a woof comes on your property, your property now belongs to the woof. There is a stack of lawsuits half a mile high down there.
And if you categorize every landowner around there as an ignorant "hick" just because they don't want the federal government controlling their private land over a program that wasn't supposed to affect them at all, then your yankee liberal roots are showing.
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