StriperAddict
Senior Member
Here's an encouraging message for believers about the difficult Heb 10 passage (vs 26-31).
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Here's an encouraging message for believers about the difficult Heb 10 passage (vs 26-31).
StriperAddict
Senior Member
An encouraging recap:
"As long as we think of sin...
as the breaking of a moral standard,
a law...
or a commandment,
instead of an inner power...
which induces us to attempt life...
apart from God...
and His grace,
disconnected,
we will exalt moral compliance...
as the goal of life,
guaranteeing our frustration,
and miss the One who is Life,
and who happily takes up residence within us."
~ Ralph Harris
"As long as we think of sin...
as the breaking of a moral standard,
a law...
or a commandment,
instead of an inner power...
which induces us to attempt life...
apart from God...
and His grace,
disconnected,
we will exalt moral compliance...
as the goal of life,
guaranteeing our frustration,
and miss the One who is Life,
and who happily takes up residence within us."
~ Ralph Harris
NE GA Pappy
Mr. Pappy
strange. I live on earth, and I will live in Heaven one day. How could I if they have passed away
Artfuldodger
Senior Member
If they haven't, that means the Law will be in place even after we live in Heaven one day. Heaven will never pass in that sense and thus neither the Law.
If the Law hasn't passed, what parts do we keep?
Artfuldodger
Senior Member
I remember having this discussion years ago on this forum. Heaven and earth must pass when all is fulfilled. Perhaps when all was fulfilled on the Cross, the Law was fulfilled. Maybe it was the destruction of Israel, so Heaven and earth was Old Israel. It could also mean the temple destruction. Jesus replaced the old temple. His temple arose in three days.
Matthew 24:34-35
34Truly I tell you, this generation will not pass away until all these things have happened. 35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
Did that generation not see it pass?
StriperAddict
Senior Member
Sin takes it's opportunity thru the law as we strive to "keep" it.
Consider: Rom 7:8 ... 8 But sin, taking opportunity through the commandment, produced in me [a]coveting of every kind; for apart [b]from the Law sin is dead.
Rom 7:4 Therefore, my brethren, you also were made to die to the Law through the body of Christ, so that you might be joined to another, to Him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God.
You're under grace, not the judicial requirement of the Mosaic law.
Believers abiding in Christ will show the fruit of the Spirit, not the striving to reach the 613 commandments of the law.
The law does not impart life, Christ does.
The law cannot make us perfect (as in complete, lacking nothing for life and godliness) but Christ did, sacrificing Himself and rising from death.
Life is the benefit of the cross and resurrection.
Death is the outcome of the law.
Check the link below below Art. The first 5 min of this program answers your law concerns:
AFM Call In/Meaning of the law.
or click:
https://subspla.sh/hzhgzxq
NE GA Pappy
Mr. Pappy
context man... context. What generation is he talking about?
Artfuldodger
Senior Member
Matthew 16:28
"Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom."
NE GA Pappy
Mr. Pappy
why would you go to Matt 16 to find the generation he is speaking of in Matt 24?
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
the things that will be fulfilled are in red. The generation that will see it is in purple.
Now, we just need to figure out what the fig tree represents and what the putting on of leaves means about the fig tree.
and no, all this did not happen in 70ad. I don't recall all of his elect being gathered from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other during that timeframe
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Artfuldodger
Senior Member
I was thinking it was all one account. So which one is the future account and which one has already happened?
Matthew 16:27
For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father's glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what they have done.
Matthew 24:16
then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.
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Spineyman
Senior Member
Revelation 1
Introduction and Benediction
1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show His servants—things which must shortly take place.
Introduction and Benediction
1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show His servants—things which must shortly take place.
Spineyman
Senior Member
That is why it was written and here is who it was written to:
Revelation 1:2-4
2 who bore witness to the word of God, and to the testimony of Jesus Christ, to all things that he saw. 3 Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written in it; for the time is near.
Greeting the Seven Churches
4 John, to the seven churches which are in Asia:
Grace to you and peace from Him who is and who was and who is to come, and from the seven Spirits who are before His throne,
Revelation 1:2-4
2 who bore witness to the word of God, and to the testimony of Jesus Christ, to all things that he saw. 3 Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written in it; for the time is near.
Greeting the Seven Churches
4 John, to the seven churches which are in Asia:
Grace to you and peace from Him who is and who was and who is to come, and from the seven Spirits who are before His throne,
Madman
Senior Member
Sorry to hear that. It is the job of the Church to teach and edify the saints. Our church does an excellent job.
StriperAddict
Senior Member
This adds an application aka "living in faith response" to post 1 and some other notes here:
==================
When Paul said, "I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ" (Rom 1:16), he wasn't talking about not being ashamed to live righteously and morally in a world full of sinful people. In his life before Christ, Paul already had confidence in his fleshly abilities to live righteously and morally... and that is what he said he had to count as cow dung so that he could embrace the true gospel!
In order for Paul to be "found in Him, not having my own righteousness, which is from the law, but that which is by faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith" (Phil 3:9), Paul had to chuck aside any and all of his sense of his own righteousness and morality according to the law, which would have been a major deviation from his previous stance in life and from what his Jewish brothers expected of him.
It is this 180° turn that Paul was not ashamed of! It wasn't a turn from unrighteous living to righteous living that Paul was now standing for. It was a turn from trusting in righteous living to trusting in Christ alone for righteousness! That's the gospel - the *gift* of God's righteousness given freely to all who believe.
From Joel Brueseke
==================
When Paul said, "I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ" (Rom 1:16), he wasn't talking about not being ashamed to live righteously and morally in a world full of sinful people. In his life before Christ, Paul already had confidence in his fleshly abilities to live righteously and morally... and that is what he said he had to count as cow dung so that he could embrace the true gospel!
In order for Paul to be "found in Him, not having my own righteousness, which is from the law, but that which is by faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith" (Phil 3:9), Paul had to chuck aside any and all of his sense of his own righteousness and morality according to the law, which would have been a major deviation from his previous stance in life and from what his Jewish brothers expected of him.
It is this 180° turn that Paul was not ashamed of! It wasn't a turn from unrighteous living to righteous living that Paul was now standing for. It was a turn from trusting in righteous living to trusting in Christ alone for righteousness! That's the gospel - the *gift* of God's righteousness given freely to all who believe.
From Joel Brueseke
hobbs27
Senior Member
Christianity is the continuation of the old covenant. It is better than the old, but it was what the old covenant saints looked to, hope for. It is death defeated, eternal life, The Kingdom from heaven, as Jesus Christ our King!
The law is fulfilled, every jot and tittle. Jesus accomplished what He came to do, and when a contract is fulfilled , or a debt is paid, that contract and debt is no more than a memory.
God Bless! Jesus is King of Kings and Lord of Lord's!
The law is fulfilled, every jot and tittle. Jesus accomplished what He came to do, and when a contract is fulfilled , or a debt is paid, that contract and debt is no more than a memory.
God Bless! Jesus is King of Kings and Lord of Lord's!
gordon 2
Senior Member
Thinking is the problem? Does not sin injure one's spiritual life and thinking about sin besides?
The struggle of Christians is not one of moral standard, it is rather one of Godly standard afforded by grace? The problem is grieving the Spirit in Christianity. And to my mind thinking that the way we think makes for what contaminates the Christian life is just folly. We miss "the one who is Life" because our Christian ancestors missed " the one who is Life" in their spiritual walks and we choose a false righteousness knowing death as life or we chose death even though we sing that we chose life. We live the lives of worms and declare ourselves as angels. The mind can play all kinds of spins on this... but in the end... the heart simply will say, " What a sin! To love God with all your heart and mind is not enough... to the souls condemned to wonder...elsewhere..."
So without thinking too much about it... I think for God the problem is the heart not the mind... It is the heart that was injured by the fall from grace... it is the heart that is injured by the fall from grace...
And this is really about the great problem of bible based Christianity... which for the most part has become basically a glorified bible study... of what the "bible says" to the mind, never minding what God ( "God within") whispers to the hearts of Christian men and women. History will tell that with their minds Christians sinned with evil just as well as " the uncivilized" that they by great commission sought to convert to their more mindful and sinful ways. From bargaining with forked tongues, to pushing enemy soldier out of choppers, to the systematic ( state sanctioned) torture of enemies...Christians have splaining to do... But few will explain from the heart... they have none... their Christian mind ate it.
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StriperAddict
Senior Member
Christians have no heart. (?)
Interesting.
In the New Covenant God gave believers new hearts and spirits. So important was this that it was stated by Ezekiel years before the cross and resurrection made it a reality. (Ch 36)
True, our thinking gets affected by the power of sin, but greater is Christ within us than he that is in the world, aka the influencers of ungodliness, namely the world flesh and the devil. I've stated countless times that these 3 are not the believers identity, but Gordon, you desire to strip a Christians indwelt life with every fiber of your being, as if nothing came of this incredible one time sacrifice for sinners. I am not surprised by this in much of the "religious" - void of the Spirit community, and I'm not suggesting you fall into that, but you seek to give unbelief rights to the same throne of God as those who fell at Jesus feet and by believing have inherited eternal life.
I hope your experience with believers, especially those who will love you in Christ by His power within - changes. And this concern is from my heart, wether you believe me or not.
The grace of God in broken earthen pots filled in Christ will go where unbelieving humanity cannot. And those filled pots will take their new hearts along, with or without good thought choices.
Grace and Peace to you.
- Walter
Israel
BANNED
What you describe above, are they not the works of the flesh?
My being able to identify them as such means nothing, any literate Bible owner can recite them from Galatians. And with enough immersion in Christian culture...even feign repugnance.
(they also seem notably of American historicity in their recounting, dealings/treaties with the indigenous tribes, Vietnam helicopter interrogations, and more recent waterboardings) Of course it doesn't help when you have those willing to describe, (and those willing to eat such description of) the USA as a shining "City set on a hill"...the light of the world while their own wife is consulting astrologers.
In certain areas (of the USA) one has a better chance of escaping without a broken lip by saying Jesus made some serious mistakes instead of casting any aspersions upon Ronaldus Magnus. But, yes, to a great extent certains view Jesus Christ as driving a Ford pick up, equipped with a gun rack, NRA decal, and a bumper sticker "America, love it or leave it!". To think of Christ as driving a Toyota...well...is blasphemy of the highest sort.
The USA has never been shy about declaring itself the recipient of Divine mandate, protector and promulgator of such, last bastion of liberty in a darkening world. (Till one tests such "liberty" by merely speaking publicly of those things found an offense)
But let's face it "God on Our Side" is no anthem new nor reserved to just the USA. It has served as cover for all manner of things down through the ages...no matter what god was being touted as superior...and what better justification is there than "Divine Mandate"? What can't one indemnify himself against by such usage?
But that ultimately is less the issue than the general predilection of man to serve whatever (to him) is exalted form of the "superior". The age of reason itself has much to answer for.
Why would we...if we have any conviction that the word of Christ is true...doubt such as "many will come in my name..."? Christ knows how many will seek advantage in acknowledging Him in some form or other...even to the most craven deceptions. (Which seems never far from my own considerations "Is it I Lord?") But that helps no one at all...in "my" confession...it makes me neither honest broker nor anything at all except (if one can believe it)...I am no more more inured to deception than any other. My only hope is as I see it...I am lost apart from so great an intervention on my behalf as is almost unspeakable...and that almost is where "how great a salvation!" meets "if the righteous be scarcely saved" finding resolution, for only there I am delighted to be pressed to receive...scarcely. I, who am at best scarcely...is even given to speak of "so great a salvation".
You see, though I am not known to have ever pushed a presumed Viet Cong from a chopper, nor waterboarded anyone (though I am not free of the knowledge of more advanced form of torture, like merely withholding an honest fellowship from a pleading soul) I am surely open to the accusation of being double tongued before the Lord. God forbid I lie in regards to His knowing of me! The fears I often entertain (one may rightly ask...is just "one"...too often?) and find moving me...hidden...till His light reproves. Corruption rarely declares itself plainly...while it may remain hidden in such common (and often acceptable form)..."but I am just a little worried".
The victim of fear in any form claims for himself all ungodly exoneration. Victims...always hold a right to themselves.
No, I don't know how one can claim the Lord's name while doing anything untoward...except they must be self convinced they have a right to.
And that, I understand all too well.
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