RIP Koko

[WaltL1]

So.... I guess now all the "talking donkey" scoffery will cease right?

I used to have a Rottweiler that would bring me his food bowl when he was hungry and drop it at my feet. He was clearly communicating to me that he was hungry.
However he never SAID "Hey get off your butt and put some darn food in my bowl".
The ability to communicate does not = the ability to speak the human language.

 

[Israel]

I always been taken by the King James at this part "preach the gospel to every creature". I know the word used can have variations of that. Creation, created thing, etc. But for a man of previous nature given to such hostility...it has had a soothing effect. Though I still swat mosquitoes with a vengeance, and do not refuse to run over a rattler...I take no joy in it, anymore.

I don't think the death of anything was ever meant for me to be a pleasure. Except that very hostile guy.

And no, I am not a vegetarian...and I still enjoy a good movie...like Tombstone...but I do understand Johnny Ringo...who was just being put out of his misery.

And even Doc learned there are firm limits to hypocrisy in that service.

 

[bullethead]

I always figured that human speech was understood by some animals like dogs but more as sound conditioning rather than the dog processing what the words mean and understanding the words definitions.
These primates have the ability to learn languages, process what is said, think about what they want to say in return based of emotions and feelings and then convey it back in intelligent ways.
Their brains have to be wired similarly to ours which reinforces my thoughts that human abilities are really primate abilities. The human version of primates have just been able to showcase it better.

 

[WaltL1]

I always figured that human speech was understood by some animals like dogs but more as sound conditioning rather than the dog processing what the words mean and understanding the words definitions.
These primates have the ability to learn languages, process what is said, think about what they want to say in return based of emotions and feelings and then convey it back in intelligent ways.
Their brains have to be wired similarly to ours which reinforces my thoughts that human abilities are really primate abilities. The human version of primates have just been able to showcase it better.

I always figured that human speech was understood by some animals like dogs but more as sound conditioning rather than the dog processing what the words mean and understanding the words definitions.

Im with you but heres what trips me up -
Isnt "sound conditioning" basically exactly what we (humans) do when it comes to oral communication?
Seems to me we have to process and recognize the "sound" of the word before we process what the word means?
Not sure where Im going with that...…….. but its somewhere

 

[bullethead]

Im with you but heres what trips me up -
Isnt "sound conditioning" basically exactly what we (humans) do when it comes to oral communication?
Seems to me we have to process and recognize the "sound" of the word before we process what the word means?
Not sure where Im going with that...…….. but its somewhere

Yes absolutely, sound conditioning IS how we learn to speak and follow.
But
We then take it to levels where we can assimilate those words with our feelings and express our feeling using those words (sounds).

Like the other Gorilla in the article. He used sign language to speak his feelings and then went and got blankets to make the dead gorilla a bed. He expressed sorrow and a willingness to comfort the other gorilla.

Im a sure a dog misses someone when they die but is unable to express it beyond a down in the dumps feeling. It cannot use sign language to speak it feelings.
It does not seem that they can learn to express whatever they feel into anything beyond rudimentary actions.

"Want to go out"?
Yeah they learn to run to the door.
"Wanna go for a walk"
Some grab their leash.

Ask Koko if she wanted to go for a walk and she could say, "No thank you, I want to watch the end of this movie and pet my kitten"

 

[JustUs4All]

I believe that animals of the same species communicate with one another in various ways and that most communication is non verbal, even among humans. Inter species communication is much more difficult, but I believe that it has been adequately proven to exist at a pretty high level.

 

[WaltL1]

Yes absolutely, sound conditioning IS how we learn to speak and follow.
But
We then take it to levels where we can assimilate those words with our feelings and express our feeling using those words (sounds).

Like the other Gorilla in the article. He used sign language to speak his feelings and then went and got blankets to make the dead gorilla a bed. He expressed sorrow and a willingness to comfort the other gorilla.

Im a sure a dog misses someone when they die but is unable to express it beyond a down in the dumps feeling. It cannot use sign language to speak it feelings.
It does not seem that they can learn to express whatever they feel into anything beyond rudimentary actions.

"Want to go out"?
Yeah they learn to run to the door.
"Wanna go for a walk"
Some grab their leash.

Ask Koko if she wanted to go for a walk and she could say, "No thank you, I want to watch the end of this movie and pet my kitten"

Agreed.

"No thank you,I want to watch the end of this movie and pet my kitten"

Im almost positive Ive said those exact words myself ^
Its really interesting to think about though. We could be waaaaaaaaay underestimating the lower level animals mental capacity but its simply due to lack of being able to communicate. KoKo made it "easy".

 

[WaltL1]

Bummer about Koko,,,, I was under the impression that they lived longer than that,,,,

It looks like they can but this heart condition sounds pretty common so preventing a lot of them from living longer.

"Many gorillas have a heart condition, cardiomyopathy, and she had it, but it was apparently a mild case and was being treated for that.

 

[bullethead]

Agreed.

Im almost positive Ive said those exact words myself ^
Its really interesting to think about though. We could be waaaaaaaaay underestimating the lower level animals mental capacity but its simply due to lack of being able to communicate. KoKo made it "easy".

No doubt about the lower level animals capacity. It may not be a problem with them more than it is a problem with us to understand them.

We have all witnessed the dog examples above. They learn our word(sounds) and react accordinly in the "right" way like going to the door.
Conversely
We as humans must have heard dog barks a million times. I don't know one bark from the other. Sure, I can tell if a dog runs to the window while barking that it sees something. I know if there is a knock at the door and the dog barks it is alerted to the sound and where it is coming from. But with all our supposed smarts, a dog can stand in the middle of a room while looking directly at us and bark once or fifty times and ill be darned if I know one bark from the other, what the dog is "saying" or if two quick barks mean any more than three barks with longer pauses in between.
Im sure hunters get tuned into their hounds because the hounds have different bawls,barks and sounds when trailing or something is treed.
But I've never known the best dog guy to listen to their hounds and tell me Big Red says they are chasing a snowhoe hare, the hare is crafty as he is sticking to the swamp but me and Spike are gonna head him off at the big willow while Butch and Abby keep on his trail.

 

[WaltL1]

No doubt about the lower level animals capacity. It may not be a problem with them more than it is a problem with us to understand them.

We have all witnessed the dog examples above. They learn our word(sounds) and react accordinly in the "right" way like going to the door.
Conversely
We as humans must have heard dog barks a million times. I don't know one bark from the other. Sure, I can tell if a dog runs to the window while barking that it sees something. I know if there is a knock at the door and the dog barks it is alerted to the sound and where it is coming from. But with all our supposed smarts, a dog can stand in the middle of a room while looking directly at us and bark once or fifty times and ill be darned if I know one bark from the other, what the dog is "saying" or if two quick barks mean any more than three barks with longer pauses in between.
Im sure hunters get tuned into their hounds because the hounds have different bawls,barks and sounds when trailing or something is treed.
But I've never known the best dog guy to listen to their hounds and tell me Big Red says they are chasing a snowhoe hare, the hare is crafty as he is sticking to the swamp but me and Spike are gonna head him off at the big willow while Butch and Abby keep on his trail.

He's saying "these lower level humans are impossible to teach how to speak doginease. I wish they were smart like KoKo".

 

[bullethead]

He's saying "these lower level humans are impossible to teach how to speak doginease. I wish they were smart like KoKo".

Lololol , Darn straight Walt!

 

[red neck richie]

Very intelligent animal. They can be trained to do a lot of things(tricks). Not unlike a visit to sea world or Pavlov's dog for that matter. I laugh at those that compare them to humans though. They are smart creatures but are totally a slave to instinct.

 

[bullethead]

Very intelligent animal. They can be trained to do a lot of things(tricks). Not unlike a visit to sea world or Pavlov's dog for that matter. I laugh at those that compare them to humans though. They are smart creatures but are totally a slave to instinct.

So when the gorilla tells the woman that it senses its own mortality, shares its thoughts, says it loves a cat and tens of thousands of intelligent conversations with thousands of different people for over 40 years it is a trick?
10/4 Richie.

 

[red neck richie]

So when the gorilla tells the woman that it senses its own mortality, shares its thoughts, says it loves a cat and tens of thousands of intelligent conversations with thousands of different people for over 40 years it is a trick?
10/4 Richie.

You crack me up BH. You will believe what a gorilla and its trainer is telling you but you dont believe what I have told you.

 

[bullethead]

You crack me up BH. You will believe what a gorilla and its trainer is telling you but you dont believe what I have told you.

I believe what I've seen regarding that particular Gorilla over the years.
You can go on youtube and literally see for yourself.

You are quite the skeptic though, lololol.

 

[red neck richie]

I believe what I've seen regarding that particular Gorilla over the years.
You can go on youtube and literally see for yourself.

You are quite the skeptic though, lololol.

I take it that's why you made the post? One Gorilla over millions of believers. The numbers are not in your favor. And most humans are way more intelligent. Plus you know everything on YouTube (the internet) is true. Maybe you should put as much time on the research as you do disproving Christianity?

 

[bullethead]

I take it that's why you made the post? One Gorilla over millions of believers. The numbers are not in your favor. And most humans are way more intelligent.

The claim was made that there was a Gorilla that could understand human speech, learn to understand sign language and speak using sign language. The claims go so far as to say that the gorilla even can express it thoughts and feelings through sign language and not just simple yes or no replies. The claims even state that the gorilla talks using multiple words that fit the conversation AND even uses complete sentences at times.

I said no way. Show me. I want to see proof. Evidence. It better be overwhelming.

Then I saw it on TV news and then the computer. It watched multiple shows that span over 40 years and saw that gorilla do exactly what they said it does.

On the other hand while I did not talk directly to millions of believers, all the believers that I have talked to who make claims and assertions, I have asked for them to provide me proof and evidence.
I figure surely their god is more real than a gorilla that uses sign language. Still, nothing from a single one of them.

You should worship the gorilla.

 

[red neck richie]

The claim was made that there was a Gorilla that could understand human speech, learn to understand sign language and speak using sign language. The claims go so far as to say that the gorilla even can express it thoughts and feelings through sign language and not just simple yes or no replies. The claims even state that the gorilla talks using multiple words that fit the conversation AND even uses complete sentences at times.

I said no way. Show me. I want to see proof. Evidence. It better be overwhelming.

Then I saw it on TV news and then the computer. It watched multiple shows that span over 40 years and saw that gorilla do exactly what they said it does.

On the other hand while I did not talk directly to millions of believers, all the believers that I have talked to who make claims and assertions, I have asked for them to provide me proof and evidence.
I figure surely their god is more real than a gorilla that uses sign language. Still, nothing from a single one of them.

You should worship the gorilla.

No thanks. Maybe you should you seem to be impressed.

 

[bullethead]

No thanks. Maybe you should you seem to be impressed.

Is THAT all you got?
I can go online and witness an intelligent talking Gorilla and all I get from you is that??? You can't top a gorilla????
But yes,
I am impressed. That gorilla seemed to have a lot more genuine sense than a couple people I converse with, but I do not let my emotions decide who or what to worship
I do not need or feel the need to worship anything.
It does show that I am willing to recognize evidence and proof and concede to the validity of it. I am capable of altering my opinion based off new verifiable evidence.

 

[JustUs4All]

OK boys, let's keep it impersonal, else it is time to take it to private conversation.