Salvation or Probation

Thread starter #1
Grace and faith, a winning combination.

Faith is not the savior, Grace is.

We choose to believe the good news, but God has already decided the consequence of our believing in Christ.

Fortunately, the consequence he chose is in our favor.

Eternal life!

That's grace.

It’s God’s Grace shown in Christ and welcomed in the hearts of men and women, that glorifies Him.

Anything other than eternal, unalterable, non-forfeitable salvation, is not grace, even when called by the same name.

Messages that change grace into a message of our works, do not honor Christs work for us and therefore do not glorify God.

Salvation is not probation. Adam was on probation. And God was waiting for him to mess it up.

All it took for Adam to lose the temporal life he had was ONE sin and that's all it would take for us if we had temporal life like Adam had.

But we do not have temporal life.

We have life eternal!

God is not waiting to see if we mess up. That ship has sailed!

Gods plan today is not to save us and then put us back in a garden with a choice to stay saved each day.

That's probation. But it's not salvation.

Christ didn't die to be Adam all over again only called by another name. Christ is the last Adam.

With one death and one resurrection, Christ succeeded where Adam failed.

Yet, his success was not for himself, it was for us!

And unlike Adams failure, Christs success for us has permanent ongoing results!

At the moment we believed in Christ each of us was permanently removed from our death-dealing union with Adam and placed into a permanent union with the risen Christ.

It didn’t depend on the strength of our spiritual batting average, but on his!

The reason our union with Christ is permanent is because Jesus EVER LIVES to make intercession FOR US! Christ Himself would need to die again for anything to touch the believer's permanent union with Christ.

And dear friend, that is not going to happen.

Thank God!

If we've been saved, we can't lose what we have by being bad cuz we didn't get it by being good!

Just as Christ only needed to die ONCE to perfect our salvation, so saving faith does not require our repeating over and over again.

Jesus perfect work and our simple hearing the good news, inspires a faith that “takes” unto eternal salvation.

Consider the Israelites who were bitten by venomous snakes. God equates their look at the brazen snake and living, with our looking at the savior in faith and receiving everlasting life.

How many times did those infected by deadly venom need to look at the snake on the pole?

They looked but ONCE and they lived!

Did God tell the Jews to look at the snake and commit their lives to the snake?

No sir.

Did God ask that the Jews look at the snake and confess the snake to others?

Not on your life.

Did the Jews look at the snake and promise to continue looking at the snake?

If they did so, they'd have awfully stiff necks!

Certainly not!

The truth?

One simple look...and they lived.

And one look of faith at Christ and we live...forever!

That’s grace!

Grace miraculously takes us out of death and into life, not gradually, as we learn the ropes of religion, but instantaneously and eternally, when we hear the voice of God in the gospel...and we believe!

That's grace and its good news to anyone who needs a savior.

This same good news is repeated with the woman at the well. Christ promised the woman that if she drank from him she would never thirst.

He could have told her "now make sure you hang out at the well and next time you get thirsty just lower your bucket."

But he didn't.

Instead, he inspired confidence in him that ONE (spiritual) drink from him, would have everlasting effects.

And she drank once and never thirsted again.

Notice that the woman didn't need to keep coming to Christ over and over again to make sure she *really* drank of him the first time.
it was just the opposite: knowing she drank of him and knowing the sufficiency of drinking ONCE, she testified of him who told her everything about her life.

One drink, her choice. One drink, eternal consequence.

His Grace.

Our faith.

Grace and faith, God’s awesome and winning combination.
 

apoint

Senior Member
Sure your familiar with the quote. ---- and his name will be removed from the book of life?
 
Sure your familiar with the quote. ---- and his name will be removed from the book of life?
I do know that verse does exist but also;

Revelation 17:8
"The inhabitants of the earth whose names have not been written in the book of life from the creation of the world"

What I don't understand is how can one have their name removed if it was added at the creation of the world? Wouldn't God have known by foreknowledge that one would do that thing and never put his name in there to start with?
 

Spotlite

Senior Member
I do know that verse does exist but also;

Revelation 17:8
"The inhabitants of the earth whose names have not been written in the book of life from the creation of the world"

What I don't understand is how can one have their name removed if it was added at the creation of the world? Wouldn't God have known by foreknowledge that one would do that thing and never put his name in there to start with?
Sort of kills predestination don’t it??
 

Spineyman

Senior Member
Sort of kills predestination don’t it??
1 John 2:19

19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us.
I do not believe it is possible, to be removed since it is He who put you there in the first place and He has promised to never leave you nor forsake you, not even to the close of the age!
 

Spotlite

Senior Member
1 John 2:19

19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us.
I do not believe it is possible, to be removed since it is He who put you there in the first place and He has promised to never leave you nor forsake you, not even to the close of the age!
I have no issues with anyone that believes that way,


But Exodus 32, Revelation 22, Galatians 1, and 2 Peter 2 are a few spots that creates a hurdle for that.
 
Last edited:
Sort of kills predestination don’t it??
Not really, they were written in the book before the earth was even created. The Word was eternally with God before creation.

Ephesians 1:4-5
For He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world to be holy and blameless in His presence. In love 5He predestined us for adoption as His sons through Jesus Christ, according to the good pleasure of His will,

Revelation 17:8
"The inhabitants of the earth whose names have not been written in the book of life from the creation of the world"
 

Spotlite

Senior Member
Hurdles, yes. Scripture is full of them. I can present some verses against OSAS if you want me to.
I don’t believe OSAS so it would be a fruitless effort. I don’t condemn those that do either.
 
I don’t believe OSAS so it would be a fruitless effort. I don’t condemn those that do either.
Do you believe that God already knows who will screw up and loose their salvation? If so then maybe there names are not entered in the book. God would have to know by foreknowledge they would eventually screw up and never enter their names in the first place.
 

Spotlite

Senior Member
Not really, they were written in the book before the earth was even created. The Word was eternally with God before creation.

Ephesians 1:4-5
For He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world to be holy and blameless in His presence. In love 5He predestined us for adoption as His sons through Jesus Christ, according to the good pleasure of His will,

Revelation 17:8
"The inhabitants of the earth whose names have not been written in the book of life from the creation of the world"
I can agree with that. But....according to scripture, even though that may be the case, it appears the HE can and will blot out names.

I guess my main point is not to say anyone is wrong, but asking how does one explain those others scriptures concerning blotting out and removing?

If it’s impossible to be removed, why write something stating that HE will?
 

Spotlite

Senior Member
Do you believe that God already knows who will screw up and loose their salvation? If so then maybe there names are not entered in the book. God would have to know by foreknowledge they would eventually screw up and never enter their names in the first place.
I think he knows, he knew Judas would betray him.

And I believe they’re written there, (if since the creation of the word?) and removed by sin.
 
I don’t believe OSAS so it would be a fruitless effort. I don’t condemn those that do either.
I personally don't condemn any. I leave that up to God. Free will, election, Universalism, no baptism, works, grace, Oneness, the Trinity, soul sleep, and on and on.

Curious though, what can cause a man to lose his salvation besides taking away from the words of scripture? If I teach that one can't lose his salvation, am I taking away from the words of scripture?

I guess what I'm getting at is some of us are taking away from the words of scripture. It could be through ignorance or through our indoctrination.
We can't all be right. Works vs grace, free will vs election, losing salvation, the necessity of baptism, etc. Some of us are probably taking away from the words of scripture.
 

Spotlite

Senior Member
Two things. 1) The names were entered "before" creation."
2) God predestined us for adoption, "through Christ", before creation.
Maybe the the predestined only means purposed or desired, and not “this one goes up, this one goes down”?
 

Spotlite

Senior Member
I personally don't condemn any. I leave that up to God. Free will, election, Universalism, no baptism, works, grace, Oneness, the Trinity, soul sleep, and on and on.

Curious though, what can cause a man to lose his salvation besides taking away from the words of scripture? If I teach that one can't lose his salvation, am I taking away from the words of scripture?

I guess what I'm getting at is some of us are taking away from the words of scripture. It could be through ignorance or through our indoctrinate.
We can't all be right. Works vs grace, free will vs election, losing salvation, the necessity of baptism, etc. Some of us are probably taking away from the words of scripture.
Sin?

I don’t think you’re taking away from the scripture unless you know you’re misrepresenting it. That’s the purpose of studying, you realize you got a little off, correct and move forward, but to continue knowing you’re a little off, yea you’re taking away from scripture.

I’ve said it before, regardless of the denomination, I believe that every person that is honestly seeking God and his ways will find it regardless of the name over the church doors.
 
I think he knows, he knew Judas would betray him.

And I believe they’re written there, (if since the creation of the word?) and removed by sin.
Was Judas, like Pharoah or other trials and tribulations, used by God to make sure his plan was carried out?
You have to realize that God's plan for salvation was before creation. The Word was already with God. The names were in the book before creation.
The plan, plan "A", God's plan, His only plan was before creation.
Adam, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, in God's plan.

The Word becoming incarnate as a man. The Word dying on a cross for our sins. The hardening of Israel to make this possible. Judas, his mission.

The captivity of Israel. The future of Israel. Everything.

Yet somehow, with all of this planned predestination to make sure God's plan happened and happens, man has free will.

Names can be removed. Scripture tells us they can.
 

Spotlite

Senior Member
Was Judas, like Pharoah or other trials and tribulations, used by God to make sure his plan was carried out?
You have to realize that God's plan for salvation was before creation. The Word was already with God. The names were in the book before creation.
The plan, plan "A", God's plan, His only plan was before creation.
Adam, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, in God's plan.

The Word becoming incarnate as a man. The Word dying on a cross for our sins. The hardening of Israel to make this possible. Judas, his mission.

The captivity of Israel. The future of Israel. Everything.

Yet somehow, with all of this planned predestination to make sure God's plan happened and happens, man has free will.

Names can be removed. Scripture tells us they can.
I believe he knew a “man” would betray him, I believe he knew it was Judas, but I don’t believe he predestined Judas to do that.
 
Maybe the the predestined only means purposed or desired, and not “this one goes up, this one goes down”?
Perhaps, but the actual names were already written in the book of life. I could see it as you mentioned pertaining to Ephesians 1:4-5 but Revelation says the names were already written before creation and removed later.

He could have chose all of us before the creation. He could have predestined all of us for adoption before creation.

Yet Revelation says the names were already in the book. Do you think every human is in the book and when we take away from scripture our names are removed?
 

Spotlite

Senior Member
Perhaps, but the actual names were already written in the book of life. I could see it as you mentioned pertaining to Ephesians 1:4-5 but Revelation says the names were already written before creation and removed later.

He could have chose all of us before the creation. He could have predestined all of us for adoption before creation.

Yet Revelation says the names were already in the book. Do you think every human is in the book and when we take away from scripture our names are removed?
I would think you’re correct if they’re there before the creation of the earth.

Although I have heard it preached that you’re names are not written there until you’re saved.
 
Top