Shock Collar

mattuga

Senior Member
Thread starter #1
I know the title alone has people hoping I don't have a puppy trying to train with a shock collar, I do not. I have an 11 yo lab that would respond easily to a light shock (if noise alert doesn't work) but I've never used it as a training method other than seeing her on a her snake aversion training by the GA snake master. My dog has started breaking from the pit blind and I didn't have the knowledge to know how bad it is to let her retrieve a duck after she breaks. She started a couple years ago and I've never fixed it so obviously it has gotten worse but think I could fix on good few specific training sessions with followed up reinforcement. I don't want a dog that always needs a shock collar once that is the route chosen, if I am wrong, let me know. She's been heel/sit trained since she was 3 months old but I never used a shock collar to reinforce anything. The older she gets the less I want to smack her butt or ear pinch. She takes a simple butt smack to respond when she gets ornery and I'd rather have a remote. I'm planning on getting a new puppy soon and would be open to the do's/don'ts with a shock collar from a starting point.

I know dog guys have strong opinions on shock collars so feel free to blast away, I won't take it personal and others/myself might learn about the best and worst ways to apply shock collar training. I will put my next dog on a program, my current dog was a Richard Wolters book reading product so as has been discussed before there has been a lot of progression from those methods.

I think this forum could be a lot more active if more guys asked more qualified questions. I hope to have more respectable carnage pictures next year!

If this forum doesn't liven up the Ducksouth page on Facebook is great and active daily. Rocky Leflore has some hilarious podcasts coming out, it was started for the MS Delta hunter but funny to any duck hunter. VERY interesting stuff they talk about the shifting migration due to agricultural practices and it is really really interesting...when Bradley Ramsey is talking it is very educational on that front. The podcast is called "End of the Line", just google End of the line Podcast and enjoy the fun. There is a great series about Rocky and his story on building a duck lodge in the mid-90s. This podcast eats up my useless hours on the road instead of listening to music. Let me know if anyone else listens to it.
 

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tucker80

Senior Member
#2
Have you thought about going to a tower shoot? Lots of birds flying and hitting the ground. Let a buddy shoot and you work your dog. I would think a pinch collar may be better to correct the breaking. But the tower shoot would allow you to be hands on.
 

Woadie

Senior Member
#3
I sent my pup off to get trained and I was told and read that the ecollar in the right hands is the best thing for dog training or in the wrong hands one of the most brutal. After working with the trainer over the summer and reading all I could, you might want to start in the back yard and throw bumpers but not let your dog retrieve every throw. That will reinforce that your dog only goes to retrieve when you tell it to, not when it wants to. But I am by no means a dog trainer. There are guys on here that know a ton more than me.
 

flatsmaster

Senior Member
#4
Ecollar has its place but I think of it as a correction at a distance ... ur dog not staying screwed down is beside u and its about obedience... tighten up obedience and then test it by buying some ducks on CL and have a buddy shoot them as u work ur dog ... a dog can no it on a bumper and lose its mind with birds working calls and guns going off ... you've let it go so it will be much harder but I don't think your going to strap on a ecollar and correct it ... if not keep dog clipped and release after shooting birds ... nothing worse then listening to someone yell at there dog all day ... with time and patience hopefully u can screw it down
 

fountain

Senior Member
#5
I sent my pup off to get trained and I was told and read that the ecollar in the right hands is the best thing for dog training or in the wrong hands one of the most brutal. After working with the trainer over the summer and reading all I could, you might want to start in the back yard and throw bumpers but not let your dog retrieve every throw. That will reinforce that your dog only goes to retrieve when you tell it to, not when it wants to. But I am by no means a dog trainer. There are guys on here that know a ton more than me.
This is true. I sent my lad off for training and he worked with her with a shock collar a bit. When I brought her home and put the collar on her, she sat down and began to shake like a leaf. That told me a lot. To this day, she will still shake with it on her. Never even go to hunt her
 

baddave

Senior Member
#6
i've used e collar on 2 dogs and the best thing is it just informs them who's boss ..i'd agree a lot of yard work is in order .. throw a bumper or whatever and if she as much as raises her butt off the ground , you scold her and show disappointment while you walk over and pick it up.. try again and slowly become happy again .. that is my way
 
#7
Collars are real good and real bad. Just to take a dog that has never been collar conditioned and shock him is cruel. The ecollar can destroy a good dog. Dogs should be conditioned and then trained in a collar program by someone who knows the collar , concepts and how to effectively use the collar. To many times people who ar not trained in the use of the of the e collar do allot more damage than good.
 
#8
I had a hard headed lab once that if you didn't strap on the collar and give him a touch of juice, he did his own thing. Strap it on and touch him one time when he wasn't listening and he became the best behaved dog I've ever had.

I'd be real careful using it in training though. Could ruin a pup.
 
#9
I had a hard headed lab once that if you didn't strap on the collar and give him a touch of juice, he did his own thing. Strap it on and touch him one time when he wasn't listening and he became the best behaved dog I've ever had.

I'd be real careful using it in training though. Could ruin a pup.[/QUOTE I have had some that were the very same way.
 
#10
Spend a great deal of time learning how to FULLY collar condition the dog from a young age and simply never use it unless the dog is refusing a known commmand. You never ever teach with a collar.

I use them on two types of dogs. My blood dog and my lab. For my blood dog it is used to teach long distance recall and I have had to use the actual shock feature one single time in four years.

On my lab (other than collar conditioning) I may have had to use it 2-3 times max. He wears it less than 20% of the time.

To me the greatest value is in training with the collar is in recall/here with whistle, check cord and collar TONE.

I always end the discussion on e collars with this... if you EVER push that button on an e collar in anger, ask yourself who really needed the shock. The dog because he wasn't fully trained in a situation or the guy trying a shortcut around proper training steps.
 

GLS

Senior Member
#11
spend a great deal of time learning how to fully collar condition the dog from a young age and simply never use it unless the dog is refusing a known commmand. You never ever teach with a collar.

I use them on two types of dogs. My blood dog and my lab. For my blood dog it is used to teach long distance recall and i have had to use the actual shock feature one single time in four years.

On my lab (other than collar conditioning) i may have had to use it 2-3 times max. He wears it less than 20% of the time.

To me the greatest value is in training with the collar is in recall/here with whistle, check cord and collar tone.

I always end the discussion on e collars with this... If you ever push that button on an e collar in anger, ask yourself who really needed the shock. The dog because he wasn't fully trained in a situation or the guy trying a shortcut around proper training steps.
x10!
 

mattuga

Senior Member
Thread starter #12
Thanks for all the input guys, I asked the question just as much for my next dog as I did my old gal and see some valuable feedback. I may just try to correct the old dog with the check cord and some tips that were given on here instead of trying it with a shock collar. I think I'm going to have to put the gun down and just train her in our next few live bird outings until she is back holding steady. Ever since she broke on a volley a few years ago and I let her retrieve the ducks she is only about 50% on holding for my command to retrieve. The more guns shooting the more likely she is to break. She'd might loose some drive with the shock collar going on her this late in life and there is a better option I think for her scenario since we was never corrected with a shock collar except one experience in snake aversion training.

To those who don't want to make my mistake...once I let her learn that she can still retrieve birds when she breaks I was reinforcing the bad habit. I didn't really know how big a problem that was (letting her retrieve once she broke) until another club member explained it to me.
 

Chase4556

Senior Member
#14
Will throw my .02 in here. My dog is not a retriever, just a house pooch. I have a shock collar, and like others have said, she is a whole new dog once it goes on. Every now and then she will want to keep sniffing at the mailbox or wherever after I call her back. VERY VERY rarely do I ever have to use the shock, but the vibrate and tone is invaluable. She gets two vibrates accompanied by a command before she gets the light shock. Usually on the first vibrate she decides to listen and comes on in the house.

Used properly, they are a great asset.
 
#15
Spend a great deal of time learning how to FULLY collar condition the dog from a young age and simply never use it unless the dog is refusing a known commmand. You never ever teach with a collar.

I use them on two types of dogs. My blood dog and my lab. For my blood dog it is used to teach long distance recall and I have had to use the actual shock feature one single time in four years.

On my lab (other than collar conditioning) I may have had to use it 2-3 times max. He wears it less than 20% of the time.

To me the greatest value is in training with the collar is in recall/here with whistle, check cord and collar TONE.

I always end the discussion on e collars with this... if you EVER push that button on an e collar in anger, ask yourself who really needed the shock. The dog because he wasn't fully trained in a situation or the guy trying a shortcut around proper training steps.
Perfect. I've never seen it put better.

Everybody who wants to use a collar should be required to read this.
 
#16
Spend a great deal of time learning how to FULLY collar condition the dog from a young age and simply never use it unless the dog is refusing a known commmand. You never ever teach with a collar.

I use them on two types of dogs. My blood dog and my lab. For my blood dog it is used to teach long distance recall and I have had to use the actual shock feature one single time in four years.

On my lab (other than collar conditioning) I may have had to use it 2-3 times max. He wears it less than 20% of the time.

To me the greatest value is in training with the collar is in recall/here with whistle, check cord and collar TONE.

I always end the discussion on e collars with this... if you EVER push that button on an e collar in anger, ask yourself who really needed the shock. The dog because he wasn't fully trained in a situation or the guy trying a shortcut around proper training steps.
Collar conditioning is learning how to turn off pressure, and it is a process that has steps that should not be skipped........Leading up to the collar being the pressure, and only the minimum effective amount of pressure needed should be used!!

The dog needs to know that turning off that pressure is a result of performing a known command.

Turning off pressure is reward for good behavior!!

You can really screw up a dog with an e-collar if you don't know what you are doing!!

Look up Evan Grahm, or Mike Larty training DVD's
 
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