Something interesting that I won't pretend to understand

Thread starter #1

Israel

Senior Member
"More Than One Reality Exists"

https://www.livescience.com/65029-dueling-reality-photons.html

However, if measurements themselves aren't absolutes — as these new findings suggest — that challenges the very meaning of quantum mechanics.

"It seems that, in contrast to classical physics, measurement results cannot be considered absolute truth but must be understood relative to the observer who performed the measurement," Ringbauer said.

I am engaged first by the matter of its having to do with light and its apprehension; or, in their terms, measurement.

But, no less, by the notion of "superposition"; a consideration that I'm persuaded is innately made known in the believer even if all ramifications are not known, or what may remain as being unknown, remain.

I have been pressed to, and expressed the notion of things being "a wash" amongst things. This has especially been forced to my understanding in man's perceptions of "the Light". How that man, of himself, has no ability to the demonstration of "more light" or more correct light to any other thing in creation regardless of how he may (to himself in regards to another) perceive any lacking or misapprehension of it. Any measurement of light among things by another thing is all of futility and frustration to seeking a settlement of ultimate conclusion. Even the "good" thing as perceived and received by one thing is to another as easily viewed as evil. Each man measures by his own light, of which he is heartily convinced is all light there is to be had. Nothing is more valid to any man among men than his own experience..."All of a man's ways are right in his own eyes..."

But the believer is given something all of other, completely beyond and above anything as thing. The sight of Jesus Christ in "superposition" not subject in any form or measure as man might measure. To say this has an inner effect (who would deny it?) upon the previous scales and balances once employed as trust seems to me a moot point in all. The merchant's tables in my temple are in continuous overthrow. My own measurements of value (and values) are undeniably subject to all upheaval. This is not of will nor preference (such as would be made known to myself by or of myself)...but all of irresistible.

But, even this expression of my experience of itself has no power to any end for another. Any other is free to observe and evaluate per his light and experience...

Such straitening as confessed by Jesus Christ never diminished His superposition. He appeared as he was appointed:

Behold, this child is set for the fall and rising again of many in Israel; and for a sign which shall be spoken against;

Seeking no more control over how he would be spoken of than appointed Him, even while in the maintaining of His...superposition. Even going so far as to speak from there (and being sure it is not neglected)

And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but unto him that blasphemeth against the Holy Ghost it shall not be forgiven.

How the Light appears to any is none of our concern, nor ever can it be, and only what has tasted such frustration to that measure of convincing, can be convinced. Derided or joyfully received is all as beyond our concern and necessity of attention for us, as no less than it was for He, Himself.
What we are gifted in is that which we must never come to despise in any measure and with a care to show no despite, and this despite such provocation as may come. That Spirit which gifts us to see Christ always in that superposition...from which He alone now determines how He will appear to any man.

And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

And if I speak, I speak as to those who wonder if they have, or are...going crazy.
Knowing that no assurance of man will be to its determining.
 
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Are we not instructed to pray for those who find this "news" surprising, or even shocking?

And if I speak, I speak as to those who wonder if they have, or are...going crazy.
Knowing that no assurance of man will be to its determining.
Perhaps having not been judged crazy or weird is an indicator of having not having not yet experienced reality.
 
Thread starter #3

Israel

Senior Member
Are we not instructed to pray for those who find this "news" surprising, or even shocking?



Perhaps having not been judged crazy or weird is an indicator of having not having not yet experienced reality.
Yes...and yes.

I realize my own weakness in conveying. Such wrestling as not against flesh and blood, but elsewhere; and though it may even be spoken of...it is not conveyed as salvation except by the work of the Spirit and revelation. (At least as I see it) Instruction to pray even exceeds any agreement we might have to what we believe are the benefits of it.

It is of far less import to tell a man "I will, or do, pray for you"...than actually praying for him. And sometimes expression of the former is merely all of static. But I can only speak of my experience in doing so. (Again, at least to me, in the light I see) But you convince me you know better of this than I do.

But I would be a fool to think, in any exchange with you (as I discern) the taste of ripened fruit (even perhaps softened by right bruising in such wrestle?) as opposed to what is hard and yet of some sourness, would benefit by my elucidation.

I am the one in need of instruction.

I also realize that in finding, and posting a thing of "more than one reality" is faulty to the extent of implying there is more than one. For us (help me please...is it "for us"?) that "superposition" is all and only of concern. Experiences, such as they are, and varied, of Him who sits in "superposition" are always open to argument, debate, or discussion...(and indeed have been), but what is not arguable amongst such as are disciples is His preeminence in and over all. (Even what calls itself unbeliever).

And maybe it is all (as expressed recently elsewhere) only to my own benefit to see such things, to a relief of striving against what appear to other men as "their reality" as perceived in conflict to "mine". I'm just a babe, made most clearly evident by my easiest resort to not believe I am.
This:

Perhaps having not been judged crazy or weird is an indicator of having not having not yet experienced reality.
Reminds me of this:
reality.jpg

And though I might hope to soon have a more simple conversation with him, the gist (to me) that things are related in a far more profound way than is easily evident, remains.

And as to perceptions and perspectives of "reality" I enjoy this also: CSlewis perspective.jpg
 
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formula1

Daily Bible Verse Organizer
You guys are going deep and this is as deep as I can follow(plus I like scripture that helps me grasp it). I can easily accept multiple realities exist as long as the one I walk in will soon be swallowed with the One Eternal!

2 Corinthians 4
17 For this light momentary affliction is preparing for us an eternal weight of glory beyond all comparison, 18 as we look not to the things that are seen but to the things that are unseen. For the things that are seen are transient, but the things that are unseen are eternal.
 
Thread starter #5

Israel

Senior Member
You guys are going deep and this is as deep as I can follow(plus I like scripture that helps me grasp it). I can easily accept multiple realities exist as long as the one I walk in will soon be swallowed with the One Eternal!
2 Corinthians 4
17 For this light momentary affliction is preparing for us an eternal weight of glory beyond all comparison, 18 as we look not to the things that are seen but to the things that are unseen. For the things that are seen are transient, but the things that are unseen are eternal.
LOL...that's why I said I don't understand it...at least all the physics and calculations...and you're right in that there's only One overarching reality...regardless of how we may measure, interpret, "see" that which comes to us from Him. As Paul reminds me, I see through a glass darkly.

What I'd hoped to convey, and got into a tendentious state over (requiring editing) and in which Hummer recommended the finer, and superior point (of prayer), was that "this glass" of things with which we think, look through, vessels in which we experience, is also determined by God...and that the inherent weakness of them to any absolute of assurance to itself may bring us (me especially) to a less dismissive attitude. Which, when recognized, then creates a striving.

I think in scriptural terms it would be likened to:

Father, glorify thy name. Then came there a voice from heaven, saying, I have both glorified it, and will glorify it again. The people therefore, that stood by, and heard it, said that it thundered: others said, An angel spake to him.

One heard the Father respond...while others said they heard thunder, and some said an angel. With each probably convinced to themselves they heard accurately. Who could convince or dissuade?

But the scriptures are full of testimony of those who confess God in their hearing and sight, while the very same "events" engender in others a quite difference confession and response...think of the fellow who reported back "to the Pharisees" after seeing Lazarus raised...how very puzzling! Why some would run to the Pharisees while others would run (and appears to me now the only course) to the Lord and fall before Him in seeing such has often made me ask my own self "how do you see?" Do I see, at all, what I may only be assuring myself I do?

Like those who sought Him after the loaves and fishes...do I grasp as much of the significance of Jesus Christ, as I may be inclined to think I do?

Bearing a simple testimony, without regard of how it may be received "all I know is I was blind and now I see!" is an end...even if it results in being "put out of the synagogue".

Perhaps in all it is a clearer call to prayer, as Hummer sees. Appealing "to" a soul may be shown most vain unless there is a likewise appealing in the closet "for a soul"...( and in response to which I became "dodgy" and felt compelled first to foolishly write and then delete several self justifying words...brothers deserve better).

What I find in this experiment and its findings is just a simple exposition in this material world (as Jesus spoke of sparrows, lilies, seeding, planting, and growth) of a spiritual truth, that their "reality" is made as real to them as I trust another's sight (and gift) is making to me. We make appeal to light, and for light, at the same time believing it is the light controlling us, and never the other way round. Liberty allows for others to see as they see, even (especially?) if we would desire a better alignment to what we believe is the better.

I think of these two matters/verses found in the scripture that I think I once believed I understood, and thereby (in presumption) kind of short circuited their ministry of sobriety to me.

Then another servant came and said, ‘Master, here is your mina, which I have laid away in a piece of cloth. For I was afraid of you, because you are a harsh man. You withdraw what you did not deposit and reap what you did not sow.’ His master replied, ‘You wicked servant, I will judge you by your own words. So you knew that I am a harsh man, withdrawing what I did not deposit and reaping what I did not sow?Why then did you not deposit my money in the bank, and upon my return I could have collected it with interest?’ Then he told those standing by, ‘Take the mina from him and give it to the one who has ten minas.’

Is this the Lord saying He will not force any to see Him as merciful? But judge them by their testimony of Him?

And this:

With the merciful thou wilt shew thyself merciful; with an upright man thou wilt shew thyself upright; With the pure thou wilt shew thyself pure; and with the froward thou wilt shew thyself froward. For thou wilt save the afflicted people; but wilt bring down high looks.


This becomes sobering when I see how much mercy I cannot deny I need. I may just be glimpsing the necessity of salvation.
 
You guys are going deep and this is as deep as I can follow(plus I like scripture that helps me grasp it). I can easily accept multiple realities exist as long as the one I walk in will soon be swallowed with the One Eternal!

2 Corinthians 4
17 For this light momentary affliction is preparing for us an eternal weight of glory beyond all comparison, 18 as we look not to the things that are seen but to the things that are unseen. For the things that are seen are transient, but the things that are unseen are eternal.
If you are saying, as I think you and your quoted scripture are, that the only things real are those that do not, and can not, change (which means things to which time can not be applied, or things that have not and will not experience time); then it necessarily follows that the realities to which the article refers are not realities, but only things extant; then we are in complete agreement and you have shown the much preferable expression of that agreement.
 
LOL...that's why I said I don't understand it...at least all the physics and calculations...and you're right in that there's only One overarching reality...regardless of how we may measure, interpret, "see" that which comes to us from Him. As Paul reminds me, I see through a glass darkly.

What I'd hoped to convey, and got into a tendentious state over (requiring editing) and in which Hummer recommended the finer, and superior point (of prayer), was that "this glass" of things with which we think, look through, vessels in which we experience, is also determined by God...and that the inherent weakness of them to any absolute of assurance to itself may bring us (me especially) to a less dismissive attitude. Which, when recognized, then creates a striving.

I think in scriptural terms it would be likened to:

Father, glorify thy name. Then came there a voice from heaven, saying, I have both glorified it, and will glorify it again. The people therefore, that stood by, and heard it, said that it thundered: others said, An angel spake to him.

One heard the Father respond...while others said they heard thunder, and some said an angel. With each probably convinced to themselves they heard accurately. Who could convince or dissuade?

But the scriptures are full of testimony of those who confess God in their hearing and sight, while the very same "events" engender in others a quite difference confession and response...think of the fellow who reported back "to the Pharisees" after seeing Lazarus raised...how very puzzling! Why some would run to the Pharisees while others would run (and appears to me now the only course) to the Lord and fall before Him in seeing such has often made me ask my own self "how do you see?" Do I see, at all, what I may only be assuring myself I do?

Like those who sought Him after the loaves and fishes...do I grasp as much of the significance of Jesus Christ, as I may be inclined to think I do?

Bearing a simple testimony, without regard of how it may be received "all I know is I was blind and now I see!" is an end...even if it results in being "put out of the synagogue".

Perhaps in all it is a clearer call to prayer, as Hummer sees. Appealing "to" a soul may be shown most vain unless there is a likewise appealing in the closet "for a soul"...( and in response to which I became "dodgy" and felt compelled first to foolishly write and then delete several self justifying words...brothers deserve better).

What I find in this experiment and its findings is just a simple exposition in this material world (as Jesus spoke of sparrows, lilies, seeding, planting, and growth) of a spiritual truth, that their "reality" is made as real to them as I trust another's sight (and gift) is making to me. We make appeal to light, and for light, at the same time believing it is the light controlling us, and never the other way round. Liberty allows for others to see as they see, even (especially?) if we would desire a better alignment to what we believe is the better.

I think of these two matters/verses found in the scripture that I think I once believed I understood, and thereby (in presumption) kind of short circuited their ministry of sobriety to me.

Then another servant came and said, ‘Master, here is your mina, which I have laid away in a piece of cloth. For I was afraid of you, because you are a harsh man. You withdraw what you did not deposit and reap what you did not sow.’ His master replied, ‘You wicked servant, I will judge you by your own words. So you knew that I am a harsh man, withdrawing what I did not deposit and reaping what I did not sow?Why then did you not deposit my money in the bank, and upon my return I could have collected it with interest?’ Then he told those standing by, ‘Take the mina from him and give it to the one who has ten minas.’

Is this the Lord saying He will not force any to see Him as merciful? But judge them by their testimony of Him?

And this:

With the merciful thou wilt shew thyself merciful; with an upright man thou wilt shew thyself upright; With the pure thou wilt shew thyself pure; and with the froward thou wilt shew thyself froward. For thou wilt save the afflicted people; but wilt bring down high looks.


This becomes sobering when I see how much mercy I cannot deny I need. I may just be glimpsing the necessity of salvation.
And once again, I salute the superior communication.
 

formula1

Daily Bible Verse Organizer
And doesn't that very thought make Joy rise up in you. All of my realities seem less important when I am willing to look at the light of Him who is Eternal. I need to continually learn to allow His reality reign in me.
 
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And doesn't that very thought make Joy rise up in you. All of my realities seem less important we I am willing to look at the light of Him who is Eternal. I need to continually learn to allow His reality reign in me.
Yes, the root of Joy is the seeing of Him.
Without the seeing, which is in and from Him, there is no Joy.
Is not learning of Him our only purpose in this existence?
 
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Thread starter #10

Israel

Senior Member
I don't know if this will make sense in regards to the necessity of every word of Christ...and especially need of His light in all matters.
"Take heed therefore how ye hear"
"Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones;"
"Therefore be careful how you walk, not as unwise men but as wise,"
"Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall."

So many many warnings and exhortations to having a care, but not one without purpose and power to bring about that which it exhorts to.

If it were not so, how could one not be in constant anxiety and despair...of never being able to assure themselves they have "paid heed...enough?" And yet...I find (am I the only one? and therefore in such dire need of correction and finding like a lost sheep?) that never once can I testify any sense of hearing as from the Spirit..."you are doing well enough..." What are we plunged into? Can all of apparent doubt...actually be the truth of the faith? How much seeming contradiction can be endured?

And I find you brothers especially encouraging in the above...it is all and only of seeing Jesus Christ! That is it, that is all, seeing Him who endured...all...

It is all...all warnings, all instructions, all...given to one end. Narrowing of vision to a singleness of eye. The way of it is too marvelous for me. How that assumptions get rightly crushed to discarding, paraded as the most vain and useless of things. (Even when such "working" of such appears as most dreadful before the fruit is borne) Who has "right" to press me into unknown? Who even demands this? Who removes all upon which I stood to even recognize myself...as myself? How can this be? Can this be?

A multitude of warnings...some with even the most dire inclusions. God help me!
And also this:

Be careful for nothing; but in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God.

Fear and trembling...betray my fear and trembling...at being disobedient to that!
What care is right care...what care is enough care! Again...into what is this man plunged?

You brothers help me so...plunged in to that place where only the vision of Jesus Christ can save! Only the vision of Jesus Christ...does save! This place O! God! this place of knowing:

When Simon Peter saw it, he fell down at Jesus' knees, saying, Depart from me; for I am a sinful man, O Lord.

But no...don't go!!!!!!! Don't, for the love of God...don't obey me!

Caught. Completely in the irreconcilable, to be shown...it is reconciled!


Oh, the wonder of it all...the beyond of the beyond of my own reason...the beyond of any and all understanding I have of anything. I begin to glimpse:

And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them his hands and his feet. And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them,


Disbelief...for joy! The too good to be true...meeting the true!

And how the Lord then says

he said unto them, Have ye here any meat?

O! Lord! Were you seeking to make me laugh? How "normal" can you be? How...normal...may I be?

But, I go on like a crazy man...God help me if this joy is not so much as misplaced...as insufficient.
Yes...God help me.
To see Jesus Christ.


 

gordon 2

Senior Member
I'm exhausted. I have been in the South studying the culture for most of three weeks now. So, I read thru this tread twice and my understanding may be an 8th of it because my brains are overworked. My spirit is not tired this way however, so I will respond in spirit to what in spirit i gleaned in spiritual understanding of it.

a) We all don't learn in the same way, and the experience of God is definitely not the same to all. Yet it is the same God.

b. You are a container of God's spirit and so is every other human that ever lived.

c. The Golden Rule is deeper that quantum phi and fractal geometry combined and the internal perspectives far more poetic.

d. Much of what is said or deemed moral is from an understanding that what is natural is moral. But what is natural changes and therefore what is natural is a poor basis for morality.

e.Vanity and the need to be right and the beliefs that one is right, and that the universe revolves around yourself, is a sure way to get blind children from birth.

f. Match or compare your individual spiritual personality with God's is most likely the best comparative perspective u can do. And remember we do to others, we do to God.

And all the above I learned the past three weeks from my study of Southern culture--boots on the ground.

Peace bros.
 
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Thread starter #13

Israel

Senior Member
I'm exhausted. I have been in the South studying the culture for most of three weeks now. So, I read thru this tread twice and my understanding may be an 8th of it because my brains are overworked. My spirit is not tired this way however, so I will respond in spirit to what in spirit i gleaned in spiritual understanding of it.

a) We all don't learn in the same way, and the experience of God is definitely not the same to all. Yet it is the same God.

b. You are a container of God's spirit and so is every other human that ever lived.

c. The Golden Rule is deeper that quantum phi and fractal geometry combined and the internal perspectives far more poetic.

d. Much of what is said or deemed moral is from an understanding that what is natural is moral. But what is natural changes and therefore what is natural is a poor basis for morality.

e.Vanity and the need to be right and the beliefs that one is right, and that the universe revolves around yourself, is a sure way to get blind children from birth.

f. Match or compare your individual spiritual personality with God's is most likely the best comparative perspective u can do. And remember we do to others, we do to God.

And all the above I learned the past three weeks from my study of Southern culture--boots on the ground.

Peace bros.
Where you at, brother mine? How far down the rabbit hole have you ventured? (Shall I look for the man in a pith helmet and anthropologist's garb? Are the natives friendly?)
 
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