Suspect in disturbance at Missouri Walmart says he was testing 2nd Amendment rights

You mean, besides the badge, the courts, body armor, back up...? The average citizen should ALWAYS be able to DEFEND. But not to interpret and act as the law. Until a weapon is drawn, or the threat to draw, it isn't a crime to carry. The kid never raised a weapon. He certainly deserved to be watched though.

Allowing the average citizen to act as law in the absence of sworn officials, would be like the time Barney deputized Goober.
But if you are uncomfortable with the idea of open carry of long guns in public places, how could you not understand people wanting it prohibited? I don’t want my wife, children and grandchildren to have to assess the probability of being gunned down every time they enter a Walmart. Is this really the kind of society we want to live in?
Have them assess the probability of being killed in a car wreck before they get to the Walmart, and they probably won't worry too much about the other possibilities since they are so remote.
 

PopPop

Senior Member
So would you agree with a law prohibiting carry of a long gun in public places?
No, perhaps a statistical analysis of the likelihood of that long gun being employed to do harm to innocents would help you hold your water. Then a rational look at the inneffiveness of these prohibitions on those who would commit evil and you are on the way to separating yourself from those who do not think for themselves to those who do.
 
You mean, besides the badge, the courts, body armor, back up...? The average citizen should ALWAYS be able to DEFEND. But not to interpret and act as the law. Until a weapon is drawn, or the threat to draw, it isn't a crime to carry. The kid never raised a weapon. He certainly deserved to be watched though.

Allowing the average citizen to act as law in the absence of sworn officials, would be like the time Barney deputized Goober.
Im not saying that man should have drawn down on a kid not being a direct threat. Im saying a armed civilian had every right to protect himself and anyone around him. I have total respect for those that do and step up and they have a total right to.....civilian cop or whatever no matter. And I don't equate either with goober or the like......I place them in hero category. No different than a cop that does the same.
 
See , this is what they have done to gun rights without passing a single law or firing a single shot. There was a time a gun on a person in a store would have been no big deal no matter what crimes had recently made the news papers. Now, because of mass panic and social conditioning they evacuate the building and hold someone at gun point for open carry. Then you have 2a supporters saying this guy is a clown and you should only carry concealed. Law or not they have successfully made it a social crime to carry a gun in plain sight in public.
Here's the way I see things-
There IS sufficient reason to carry.
There IS NOT sufficient reason to carry an assault rifle. I don't care if you CAN.
Just because you CAN carry, does NOT make you the Law or a hero.
Reach for your weapon, you are a THREAT. Until that clear sign of danger is there, to draw shows you are afraid, and likely to be the threat.

I for one, fully support the right of most citizens to carry. MOST. I also fully support open carry. I show my support by carrying open.

Have them assess the probability of being killed in a car wreck before they get to the Walmart, and they probably won't worry too much about the other possibilities since they are so remote.
How about the risk of botcelism, salmonella, or plain poison, hidden in the food they sell?
 
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BobbyG

ANTI-AMERICAN
No, perhaps a statistical analysis of the likelihood of that long gun being employed to do harm to innocents would help you hold your water. Then a rational look at the inneffiveness of these prohibitions on those who would commit evil and you are on the way to separating yourself from those who do not think for themselves to those who do.
Maybe the Walmart greeters could distribute this info to customers when they walk in. 😂😂
 

Rackmaster

Political Forum Town Crier
Here's the way I see things-
There IS sufficient reason to carry.
There IS NOT sufficient reason to carry an assault rifle. I don't care if you CAN.
Just because you CAN carry, does NOT make you the Law or a hero.
Reach for your weapon, you are a THREAT. Until that clear sign of danger is there, to draw shows you are afraid, and likely to be the threat.
Well Said!
 

bobocat

Senior Member
So a citizen has a right to legally carry or they dont. I didnt realize it came down to feelings or me being uncomfortable as so many have expressed. If feelings have been hurt or your uncomfortable Im sure there are some "safespaces" that a certain type of people would share. I could be wrong but I didnt read where he was pointing his firearm at people or threating people. He was just carrying. Maybe he felt uncomfortable because of all the mass shootings and wanted to make sure he was properly protected. Or maybe just wanted to exercise his Right.
 

4HAND

Senior Member
So a citizen has a right to legally carry or they dont. I didnt realize it came down to feelings or me being uncomfortable as so many have expressed. If feelings have been hurt or your uncomfortable Im sure there are some "safespaces" that a certain type of people would share. I could be wrong but I didnt read where he was pointing his firearm at people or threating people. He was just carrying. Maybe he felt uncomfortable because of all the mass shootings and wanted to make sure he was properly protected. Or maybe just wanted to exercise his Right.
The same could be said for the El Paso shooter up to the point where he started pulling the trigger.
This guy wanted attention & he got it.
I really don't think anyone on here would not take notice of someone walking around in public with an AR 15 & wearing body armor.
 
The same could be said for the El Paso shooter up to the point where he started pulling the trigger.
This guy wanted attention & he got it.
I really don't think anyone on here would not take notice of someone walking around in public with an AR 15 & wearing body armor.
Walking around with your AR slung over your shoulder - I take notice and keep my eye on you.

Walking around with you AR in the carry arms position and wearing body armor - I'm exfiltrating the area as quickly as possible while dialing 911 on my cell phone.

Maybe you're just paranoid about going out in public. I'm not taking any chances.
 

bobocat

Senior Member
The same could be said for the El Paso shooter up to the point where he started pulling the trigger.
This guy wanted attention & he got it.
I really don't think anyone on here would not take notice of someone walking around in public with an AR 15 & wearing body armor.

The same could be said for anyone carrying up until they shoot someone. Its fine to me if people want to open carry that makes them visible. Im on guard for them sneaky rascals.
 

BobbyG

ANTI-AMERICAN
Here, let me parse it for you one more time.

.....the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

:pop:
Several posters have said they are uncomfortable with or don’t think open carry of long guns is a good idea. My question was addressed to them. So far, they have evaded the question.

And, there are numerous restrictions on possessing guns, including fully automatic weapons, possession by felons, possession by domestic violence offenders, etc. Are those not infringements under your interpretation of the 2A. Of course they are.
 

BobbyG

ANTI-AMERICAN
Walking around with your AR slung over your shoulder - I take notice and keep my eye on you.

Walking around with you AR in the carry arms position and wearing body armor - I'm exfiltrating the area as quickly as possible while dialing 911 on my cell phone.

Maybe you're just paranoid about going out in public. I'm not taking any chances.
So the manner in which one is carrying, even if not pointing directly at another person, can be cause for alarm? If one has the right to bear arms without infringement, how is the carry arms position illegal?
 
Several posters have said they are uncomfortable with or don’t think open carry of long guns is a good idea. My question was addressed to them. So far, they have evaded the question.

And, there are numerous restrictions on possessing guns, including fully automatic weapons, possession by felons, possession by domestic violence offenders, etc. Are those not infringements under your interpretation of the 2A. Of course they are.
Yes, the NFA is an infringement on the 2A per se and that is not my "interpretation" of the 2A. It's the statement of the people who wrote and ratified the Constitution. When it comes to "interpretations" your argument is with them, not me. I have a clear understanding of what they meant by the 2A because I have read the entire contemporaneous record of what they said the 2A means when they passed it and I am content with its' actual meaning, the same as I am content with what they said the rest of the Constitution meant.

Convicted felons lose many of their civil rights permanently in all 50 states. It is possible for their rights to be restored via a pardon. I believe their rights should be restored after they have served their time in jail. I also believe most jail sentences for felonies aren't nearly long enough. Felonies committed against property should be 10 years minimum, no parole. Felonies committed against people should be 20 years minimum, no parole. Two time losers, double the jail time the second time around.
 
So the manner in which one is carrying, even if not pointing directly at another person, can be cause for alarm? If one has the right to bear arms without infringement, how is the carry arms position illegal?
Where did I say it was illegal? Oh that's right, I didn't. What I said was you in body armor walking into a Walmarks with your AR in the ready position is cause for alarm and that's because it is. It doesn't matter whether it's legal or not. It is cause for alarm because it's way out of the ordinary. Prudence dictates one have situational awareness at all times and be prepared to take evasive and extreme self defense measures should the need arise. Included in that is threat recognition and assessment.
 
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