The Gospels of Jesus and Paul

[Jeff57]

Okay, I agree with you. But I have to add another verse of scripture to help explain how I agree with you.
Jesus' death on the cross became the "once for all" sacrifice for my sins. But there are some minor stipulation on my life in Christ.

One of them, for me, is found in 1John 3:1 How great is the love the Father has lavished on us, that we should be called children of God! And that is what we are!"

My point in the above scripture is that in 1John, John is writing to children of God.
Now another verse from 1John.

1John 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin.
The blood of Jesus was shed for evil mankind, but only for those who would come to Christ as Lord and Savior.
And now, after receiving Jesus Christ as Lord, those who are continuing to walk with Christ are covered by His blood. Or said another way, God's grace.

That, as a person touched by the grace of God, if I indeed walk in the light Jesus continues to purify me.
John also speaks of my willingness to confess my sins.

Paul told me to stop thinking of God's grace as my life insurance plan that will protect me from punishment, but to think of it as the very power that allows me to seek Jesus Christ.

Don't get me wrong, I, as you, believe God's grace is of necessity during the remainder of my life.

Ronnie, I think you and I probably agree on more than we think. I, like you, believe that God requires our total obedience but we are incapable and in need of a savior. At some point we depart when it comes to eternal security but that's for another thread. Amen to your response brother.

 

[Jeff57]

I don't disagree with you but I see how you might disagree with me. I need to try to explain.

First I'm sure we meant the same thing when I said "purely benevolent" and you said "unmerited favor". If that is correct, then we agree that the power to give is all on God's side of the equation. The contrary statement might be, we have nothing to give that is of value to God.

When you say "nothing to do with our love for him" my thinking, perhaps, goes one step further. Can a fallen sinful man rise to the level of love that is called for by the Great Commandment? I think not. Can a fallen sinful man muster up, from within himself, the understanding of a Holy God necessary to cry as Isaiah did "I am ruined"? I think not. From where then does the ability to take even the first step, a desire to approach the Throne of Grace, come. It must come from the source of all that is good, all that is pure, all that is Holy; it must come from God Himself.

I'm drawing a blank on the reference I'm after but a similar one is Jn 6:44 "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him..."

So what I'm getting at is that when I wrote about God's recognition of our love, I was thinking that He provided us with the gift of that love, then (in effect) gives us credit for it.

I truely am not sure I explained myself well, if not, please accept my assurance that I was not lifting up man as deserving anything from the Almighty God.

You explained yourself very well brother. I see where you're coming from now, it just didn't come across that way in your original post. That probably has more to do with my perception. He's still working on me.

 

[Lowjack]

Did Someone say we are not Valuable to God ?
We are valuable because he loved us , enough to send his Begotten son to die for us.
Please never say that we are not valuable;
There is more evidence all through the Bible That we are valuable to Him, for example, Isaiah 43:3-4. Here God is talking to His people, trying to make them understand their relationship with Him, so that they will trust Him and faithfully follow Him. “3Listen to me, O house of Jacob, all you who remain of the house of Israel, you whom I have upheld since you were conceived, and have carried since your birth. 4Even to your old age and grey hairs I am he, I am he who will sustain you. I have made you and I will carry you; I will sustain you and I will rescue you.”

God used the personal pronoun I seven times: “I have upheld you…, and carried you… I am he who carries you even to your old age and grey hairs… I am he who will sustain you. I have made you and [again] I will carry you… He said [again] I will sustain you… and rescue you....”

Not only the Old Testament, but also the New Testament has it written again and again:
•John 3:16: “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”
•Ephesians 2: “4But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, 5made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved.”
•2 Timothy 1: “8…God, 9who has saved us and called us to a holy life—not because of anything we have done but because of his own purpose and grace. This grace was given us in Christ Jesus before the beginning of time…”
•1John 4:10: “This is love: not that we loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son as an atoning sacrifice for our sins.”
Get the idea?

We know we are valuable to God because of two unchangeable things:
1.God made us.
2.Jesus died for us.
So why are we so hard on ourselves and why are we so difficult with each other? Life will be better when we value ourselves and value our relationships with our brothers and sisters in Christ!

God doesn’t love us because we are valuable—we are valuable because God loves us! So we are free to love ourselves and love one another because “God don’t make no junk!”

 

[SneekEE]

I agree, I just see this grace gospel running rampant and obedience to Christ put on the backburner or even mocked. Its like the words of Paul were more important than the words of the Lord. That is bothersome to me when people reject the words of Jesus and cling to the words of Paul just because 'grace' is easy and obedience is hard. Anyway, i greatly appreciate yalls input.

To me it seems people have a harder time with grace than obediance. I talk to alot of people who cant grasp that salvation is of the Lord, alone, and that it is by the grace of God we are saved. They want to add some type of work to what Christ did on the cross, as if that was not enough.I think, because they can not allow themself to believe that what Christ did on the cross, is all that is needed for thr remission of sins. Once a person is saved by the grace of God, then obediance becomes easy, it just flows from the heart. It is just as Christ said, if we love Him, we will keep His commandments. If you see people claiming to love Christ, yet are not obediant to Him, then you are looking at a false convert. Once a person has been born from above, God gives them a new heart, with new desires, to do His will, to love the things He loves, and to hate the things He hates. Anyman who has tasted the grace of God, and recieved Christ by His grace, will be obediant. He may not be perfect, but his lifestyle will not be one of habitual sin, nor will it be without repentance. But his assurance or peace of mind will not come from his obediance, it will come from his faith in the saving power of Jesus Christ, and the obediance of Christ, to His Father. Nothing in my hands I bring, simply to the cross I cling, for our most rightous act is filthy as a rag to God. Thankfully it is by the rightousness of Christ, His shed blood, and the grace of God we are saved, and made rightous in Him.God bless you!

 

[hummerpoo]

He's still working on me.

It appears to me that He is working through you, for which we can all be thankful.

 

[hummerpoo]

Did Someone say we are not Valuable to God ?

Not really, but I'm glad it prompted your post.

God doesn’t love us because we are valuable—we are valuable because God loves us! So we are free to love ourselves and love one another because “God don’t make no junk!”

Great point, but I've got to think about the "love ourselves" a little. Seems to need a little more detail.

 

[Ronnie T]

Love your neighbor as yourself.

If I don't love myself I'm not going to love my neighbor very much.
Not in a self-centered kind of way. It’s about acceptance, self-respect, loving what I am.

Someone said: If you don’t have a good attitude towards yourself, your neighbor is in big trouble……
People who don't love and respect themselves can be dangerous and unpleasant.

 

[Jeff57]

It appears to me that He is working through you, for which we can all be thankful.

What a kind word, I'm humbled. I see the Lord gave you and extra dose of fruit #5. All glory to Him.

 

[Ronnie T]

To me it seems people have a harder time with grace than obediance. I talk to alot of people who cant grasp that salvation is of the Lord, alone, and that it is by the grace of God we are saved. They want to add some type of work to what Christ did on the cross, as if that was not enough.I think, because they can not allow themself to believe that what Christ did on the cross, is all that is needed for thr remission of sins. Once a person is saved by the grace of God, then obediance becomes easy, it just flows from the heart. It is just as Christ said, if we love Him, we will keep His commandments. If you see people claiming to love Christ, yet are not obediant to Him, then you are looking at a false convert. Once a person has been born from above, God gives them a new heart, with new desires, to do His will, to love the things He loves, and to hate the things He hates. Anyman who has tasted the grace of God, and recieved Christ by His grace, will be obediant. He may not be perfect, but his lifestyle will not be one of habitual sin, nor will it be without repentance. But his assurance or peace of mind will not come from his obediance, it will come from his faith in the saving power of Jesus Christ, and the obediance of Christ, to His Father. Nothing in my hands I bring, simply to the cross I cling, for our most rightous act is filthy as a rag to God. Thankfully it is by the rightousness of Christ, His shed blood, and the grace of God we are saved, and made rightous in Him.God bless you!

You're comments hit home with me.
I've known quite a number of people who, as young people, we taught salvation by works.
It's a continual reminder for them to come to terms with God's grace. They often believe they'll get God's grace once they've been obedient enough.

But you're correct. Receive and welcome God's wonderful grace and it will change your life like nothing else ever has.
The obedience will come in response to happily receiving Jesus Christ.

The scripture: "If you love Me you will keep My commandments" speaks to the relationship that comes from truly receiving God's grace of becoming one of His children.