Miguel Cervantes
Jedi Master
Only if the A/A were not obsessed with maligning Christians with every other breath. In this case it would appear more as denial.
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The Immaturity of some Atheist...
- Thread starter Miguel Cervantes
- Start date
Israel
BANNED
My (to some) invisible friend has given instruction. How and in what manner others receive this He has made plain to me is none of my business. In fact, in truth, if I want trouble, or more of it, one sure way is to be overly concerned about how I believe I am being perceived, or received. But this has been my instruction. His instruction to me.
We can go to chapter and verse, if need be, but we also know the manual is of little use to those who have not undertaken their part in it. Under taken.
Assembly is in the Master's hand. And The Assembly in particular.
To say, or repeat a thing is of little consequence without conviction. (Which is an interesting term if one considers matters of guilt and innocence) But, I am satisfied presently with what understanding I am allowed on this path of rebuke and chastening, to comprehend it in the fashion I have am formed to, now. Guilty parties are also allowed time in the witness seat to testify.
Unlike courtroom dramas in which the defense counsel strongly advises against putting the accused on the stand for fear of what a good prosecutor may elicit in cross examination, my advocate has none such fear. I am (if I be the only needing to learn this is also of no consequence, my needs, are after all, my needs) being taught cross examination is all I am fit for. I even believe my advocate has purposed this. For even the Prosecutor is under His capable control. The Master holds...the winnowing fork. Even, and, specifically.
I have been guilty. Guilty of past offense. Specifically found in doubt of this: "All authority in Heaven and Earth has been given me...therefore go..." One may see the "therefore go" instruction is predicated upon the first part of that; a going without knowing that upon which the "go" is predicated is learned to be a fool's errand. And I am surely guilty of being that fool. But, the Master is wise beyond comprehension; fully knowing the substance of man, being One, of all Light.
The sent One knows how to expose (in all patience of instruction) the fool that is so full of "go" he cares not what he carries in his own going, believing he is doing the Master's will in simply...going. But, if he carries not the conviction of that which upon his go is predicated, frustration to a perfection is the thing he is appointed to learn. The Master, who is all of order, (His head being God) knows that second things cannot be learned apart from first things being learned...first.
Things subject to frustration...must be frustrated. Perfectly. Until we may cry out, (if that be our only true prayer of sincerity ever uttered) "save me out of this".
And, frustration has a voice. A timbre and cadence, and its own lexicon. The "they" is frequent in use. The they is found to be of issue. The they are found to be...provocational. The they are a problem. The problem. A problem to be solved. And if our own maths are not sufficient to it "come, let us multiply our wisdom by putting our heads together". And here then..."heads" are clearly shown.
One man, clearly knowing he was not the Head, marveled not at the apparent (and appointed) opposition without, but rather at the immaturity manifestly displayed...within.
We have much to say about this, but it is hard to explain, because you are dull of hearing. Although by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to reteach you the basic principles of God’s word. You need milk, not solid food! Everyone who lives on milk is still an infant, inexperienced in the message of righteousness.
That man is very bold. Obviously he cared little for appearing an offense. I have no doubt he was subject to his own cross examination. I am convinced his Advocate, no less than ours...made sure he was "up for it".
It's easy to blame. "The woman YOU gave me" (it's called a twofer) if a man refuses to recognize he is receiving to himself the consequences of what "comes out from him". But, frustration must come out. Till only what is of not frustration, Who cannot be frustrated, remains.
Goers must go. There's much "go" in man that the cross effectually...stops. But the One who sends, because He Himself submitted to being sent into all resistance knows very well with what and by what, He was sent. He said it, Himself.
It bears repeating...even by a convict.
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
And, no less:
He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
What remains in sight as the "they" is to a man's own convenience, and the Sender knows this having been made willing to take the they...as His own. We...are the "they".
And now made not sorry to be so.
I have given them the glory You gave Me, so that they may be one as We are one— I in them and You in Me — that they may be perfectly united, so that the world may know that You sent Me and have loved them just as You have loved Me.
Are any sorry to be the they?
Perhaps only if we are not convicted of this:
just as You have loved Me.
Do any still wonder at the depths of the Father's love...for the Son? Do we...doubt?
We can go to chapter and verse, if need be, but we also know the manual is of little use to those who have not undertaken their part in it. Under taken.
Assembly is in the Master's hand. And The Assembly in particular.
To say, or repeat a thing is of little consequence without conviction. (Which is an interesting term if one considers matters of guilt and innocence) But, I am satisfied presently with what understanding I am allowed on this path of rebuke and chastening, to comprehend it in the fashion I have am formed to, now. Guilty parties are also allowed time in the witness seat to testify.
Unlike courtroom dramas in which the defense counsel strongly advises against putting the accused on the stand for fear of what a good prosecutor may elicit in cross examination, my advocate has none such fear. I am (if I be the only needing to learn this is also of no consequence, my needs, are after all, my needs) being taught cross examination is all I am fit for. I even believe my advocate has purposed this. For even the Prosecutor is under His capable control. The Master holds...the winnowing fork. Even, and, specifically.
I have been guilty. Guilty of past offense. Specifically found in doubt of this: "All authority in Heaven and Earth has been given me...therefore go..." One may see the "therefore go" instruction is predicated upon the first part of that; a going without knowing that upon which the "go" is predicated is learned to be a fool's errand. And I am surely guilty of being that fool. But, the Master is wise beyond comprehension; fully knowing the substance of man, being One, of all Light.
The sent One knows how to expose (in all patience of instruction) the fool that is so full of "go" he cares not what he carries in his own going, believing he is doing the Master's will in simply...going. But, if he carries not the conviction of that which upon his go is predicated, frustration to a perfection is the thing he is appointed to learn. The Master, who is all of order, (His head being God) knows that second things cannot be learned apart from first things being learned...first.
Things subject to frustration...must be frustrated. Perfectly. Until we may cry out, (if that be our only true prayer of sincerity ever uttered) "save me out of this".
And, frustration has a voice. A timbre and cadence, and its own lexicon. The "they" is frequent in use. The they is found to be of issue. The they are found to be...provocational. The they are a problem. The problem. A problem to be solved. And if our own maths are not sufficient to it "come, let us multiply our wisdom by putting our heads together". And here then..."heads" are clearly shown.
One man, clearly knowing he was not the Head, marveled not at the apparent (and appointed) opposition without, but rather at the immaturity manifestly displayed...within.
We have much to say about this, but it is hard to explain, because you are dull of hearing. Although by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to reteach you the basic principles of God’s word. You need milk, not solid food! Everyone who lives on milk is still an infant, inexperienced in the message of righteousness.
That man is very bold. Obviously he cared little for appearing an offense. I have no doubt he was subject to his own cross examination. I am convinced his Advocate, no less than ours...made sure he was "up for it".
It's easy to blame. "The woman YOU gave me" (it's called a twofer) if a man refuses to recognize he is receiving to himself the consequences of what "comes out from him". But, frustration must come out. Till only what is of not frustration, Who cannot be frustrated, remains.
Goers must go. There's much "go" in man that the cross effectually...stops. But the One who sends, because He Himself submitted to being sent into all resistance knows very well with what and by what, He was sent. He said it, Himself.
It bears repeating...even by a convict.
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
And, no less:
He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
What remains in sight as the "they" is to a man's own convenience, and the Sender knows this having been made willing to take the they...as His own. We...are the "they".
And now made not sorry to be so.
I have given them the glory You gave Me, so that they may be one as We are one— I in them and You in Me — that they may be perfectly united, so that the world may know that You sent Me and have loved them just as You have loved Me.
Are any sorry to be the they?
Perhaps only if we are not convicted of this:
just as You have loved Me.
Do any still wonder at the depths of the Father's love...for the Son? Do we...doubt?
It is "experiencing Christ" that determines whether one is a believer or nonbeliever. Is that not why some nonbelievers deny the experience of the believer and declare that he is a defective person (the lifeblood of the AAA sub-forum).
WaltL1
Senior Member
Not sure how you equate maligning with denial.
Do Conservatives malign Liberals? Do they do it because they are secretly jealous? Do Liberals malign Conservatives?
As far as A/As maligning Christians at every breath I'll post the same Pew research poll results I did in the other thread -
Do I hang my hat on poll results? No.
Does the data clearly suggest you might have your observation backwards?
Yes.
I thought we were talking about our immediate environment, here on this forum, not nationwide or worldwide. Was I mistaken?
WaltL1
Senior Member
Are you claiming that every kid who has been brought up to believe and does so, is because they experienced Christ?
That's just ridiculous.
If you can put your sensitive feelings aside, you will observe that A/As are arguing against the REASONING/LOGIC that is given by "the other side" on this one particular subject.
Are there rabid A/As ? Of course.
Are there rabid Christians? Of course.
Are there rabid Muslims? Of course.
Are there rabid...………..
You need to read more discriminately, or perhaps take your blinders off.
WaltL1
Senior Member
You mean here on this forum where A/As and Christians have gotten together and gone fishing and hunting together?
You mean here on this forum where the regular A/As have chased off the occasional rabid A/A who comes in only to insult?
You mean here on this forum where we have A/As who love and respect family members and friends who are Christians?
That the forum you are talking about?
WaltL1
Senior Member
Feel free to point out what you think I missed.
Miguel Cervantes
Jedi Master
Apples and oranges and overall generalizations.
I never stated ALL Atheist do it. Just some, which renders your Pew research insignificant and rather smelly.
Obfuscation.
WaltL1
Senior Member
Of course you think its insignificant and smelly. Thats no surprise. It paints a different picture than the one you are painting.
Miguel Cervantes
Jedi Master
Actually it doesn't, and the crux of my response was dry sarcasm. Sorry you are missing the majority of the point on this subject. It is totally unlike you and as if something or someone has you agitated of late. You are typically much more rational in your responses.
WaltL1
Senior Member
You claimed we think Christians are defective.
I gave examples that clearly show the opposite. Don't know about you but I don't go anywhere with people who I think are defective who are carrying a firearm.
WaltL1
Senior Member
Its very possible Im missing the point. I never claimed to be the sharpest tool in the shed.
I just think "I didn't say ALL Atheists" is kind of weak.
If I generically say "Christians walk around with signs that say our service members deserve to die", the implications are just that.
"Oh I didn't mean all Christians" wouldn't cut it with me either.
WaltL1
Senior Member
One more comment -
While this may sound hypocritical, its really not. This type of stuff does get my blood pressure up (yes I realize it wasn't your post)-
First -
Yes this sentence does start with "some believers". However it also ends by qualifying who is included in "some" -
So that would mean -
Bullet believes his sons, who attended/taught in Christian schools.. are defective.
That Ambush believes his daughter, whom he allows to go to church with her Christian friends.... is defective.
That I believe my mother and grandmother, who were/are devoutly Christian... were/are defective.
That Atlas whose father was a holy rolling preacher.... was defective.
Every A/A in there has a similar story.
To claim that we think these people are defective is frankly insulting and born from nothing but ignorance.
There is a huge difference in "I think your reasoning/logic is defective and heres why" and "I think Christians are defective people".
In the bigger picture, if perpetuated (like on a forum where people read and form opinions) how do you think that affects the overall relationship between believers and non believers?
Walt,
As I recall, the first conversation you and I ever had (could be mistaken about it being the first) was about your claim that, in the given situation, a believer had a choice between two options:
1) Deny his faith
2} lie
Someone who would willfully continue in that condition would have to be in some fashion defective.
Similar, and more denigrating claims here are as common the deer who see me without me seeing them.
That's all from me, for now, here on the Christianity & Judaism forum.
As I recall, the first conversation you and I ever had (could be mistaken about it being the first) was about your claim that, in the given situation, a believer had a choice between two options:
1) Deny his faith
2} lie
Someone who would willfully continue in that condition would have to be in some fashion defective.
Similar, and more denigrating claims here are as common the deer who see me without me seeing them.
That's all from me, for now, here on the Christianity & Judaism forum.
WaltL1
Senior Member
What was the given situation? Kind of makes a difference.
I don't remember it. Post it up. Im confident that if put in context it was factual.
If it shows I made an ignorant comment then so be it and I will admit it.
I aint skeered.
Israel
BANNED
This is all of the disciple's sojourn here. Deny the faith of the Son of God, or be found a liar by the world.
We thank God alone through Jesus Christ that we know every man's testimony is being heard and tried. There is no provision for truth, nor faith, in the world.
The world cannot receive it.
He must be sent into it.
The world will gladly make room for religions, for they are no threat to it.
But the faith of the Son of God testifies of all its undoing and torment.
If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.
The world makes a great show of hating lying to the point of swearing to what it calls the truth. It must "make a show" lest its foundations be revealed. Actors get paid considerable sums for being the most sincere skilled of liars.
But, believers live for free.
Jesus preceded him, saying, What think you, Simon? of whom do the kings of the earth take custom or tribute? of their own children, or of strangers?
Peter said unto him, Of strangers. Jesus said unto him, Then are the children free.
However, lest we should offend them, go to the sea, and cast a hook, and take up the fish that first comes up; and when you have opened its mouth, you shall find a piece of money: that take, and give unto them for me and you.
Who, O man, is King of the earth?
And who is His Son?
Be wise now therefore, O you kings: be instructed, you judges of the earth.
Serve the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling.
Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and you perish in the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.
We thank God alone through Jesus Christ that we know every man's testimony is being heard and tried. There is no provision for truth, nor faith, in the world.
The world cannot receive it.
He must be sent into it.
The world will gladly make room for religions, for they are no threat to it.
But the faith of the Son of God testifies of all its undoing and torment.
If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.
The world makes a great show of hating lying to the point of swearing to what it calls the truth. It must "make a show" lest its foundations be revealed. Actors get paid considerable sums for being the most sincere skilled of liars.
But, believers live for free.
Jesus preceded him, saying, What think you, Simon? of whom do the kings of the earth take custom or tribute? of their own children, or of strangers?
Peter said unto him, Of strangers. Jesus said unto him, Then are the children free.
However, lest we should offend them, go to the sea, and cast a hook, and take up the fish that first comes up; and when you have opened its mouth, you shall find a piece of money: that take, and give unto them for me and you.
Who, O man, is King of the earth?
And who is His Son?
Be wise now therefore, O you kings: be instructed, you judges of the earth.
Serve the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling.
Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and you perish in the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.
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Miguel Cervantes
Jedi Master
Then perhaps you should go back and read my opening post.
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