The jehovah witness ladies came knocking today...

[1gr8bldr]

Jehovah is fine with me. I prefer personal names for God since the word God is a sort of title, if we ignore that there is only one God. However, it helps me coup when I hear people take God's name in vain. Since they don't even know his real name and use a title name, it removes a portion of the offense.

However, just for conversation, wonder if you have ever realized this: https://yrm.org/yahweh-or-jehovah/

 

[kmh1031]

Thanks for that... just read it with my morning coffee!
Interesting take on which name to use.

Headed out of town but I understand their points

The truth is we really do not know the correct pronunciation of Gods name as it has been lost over time.
But it is clear god wanted us to use it.

We use Jehovah as it is the most used and has been in some of the earliest translations, back to Tyndall version and perhaps before.

Interesting that many bible writers name mean something about Jehovah

Also millions today use trhe word Hallelujah and May not know it means Praise Jah... or Jehovah!
This showing A shortened form of Jehovah

Here is also a nice article on the name topic that might explain reasons why we use Jehovah.

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1001061204?q=bible+writers+name+mean+jehovah&p=par

 

[Artfuldodger]

I would think God, considering he knows everything, would not make such a big deal over humans getting his name or that of Jesus wrong. It's like rituals. Take baptism by sprinkling or dunking? The Lord's Supper with grape juice vs wine.

I would take it even one more step. Does God really care exactly how we perceive who his Son is? Adopted Son, God himself incarnate, Eternal Son incarnate, etc. Isn't the important part of the gospel being that God's Son died for out sins? That God's Son is our salvation?

It's like forgetting the spiritual new birth and trying to hang on to one's original birth by water.

 

[1gr8bldr]

I would think God, considering he knows everything, would not make such a big deal over humans getting his name or that of Jesus wrong. It's like rituals. Take baptism by sprinkling or dunking? The Lord's Supper with grape juice vs wine.

I would take it even one more step. Does God really care exactly how we perceive who his Son is? Adopted Son, God himself incarnate, Eternal Son incarnate, etc. Isn't the important part of the gospel being that God's Son died for out sins? That God's Son is our salvation?

It's like forgetting the spiritual new birth and trying to hang on to one's original birth by water.

I have often wondered why we translate some names but not others. When Jesus was a child, if his mother had said "Jesus come here". He would not have responded to the name Jesus. I still have no problem with it, I just think it's a little strange.

 

[1gr8bldr]

I would think God, considering he knows everything, would not make such a big deal over humans getting his name or that of Jesus wrong. It's like rituals. Take baptism by sprinkling or dunking? The Lord's Supper with grape juice vs wine.

I would take it even one more step. Does God really care exactly how we perceive who his Son is?

Adopted Son, God himself incarnate, Eternal Son incarnate, etc. Isn't the important part of the gospel being that God's Son died for out sins? That God's Son is our salvation?

It's like forgetting the spiritual new birth and trying to hang on to one's original birth by water.

Another thread, another time

 

[Madman]

Today two older women came knocking. "We wanted to talk to you about how everything is so crazy these days with the shootings and the tornadoes and hurricanes. God didn't intend for things to be this way and he has a plan and we would like to talk to you about some things." How do you guys normally respond to this? I've had a couple times where I thought about challenging them on why they believe what they do or saying no thanks and shutting the door but I didn't want to be rude so I told them I didn't have time but would take whatever material they wanted to give me. They gave me a pamphlet and asked when would be a better time to come back. "The weekend perhaps?" I gave the non-committal maybe some other time response and they left. Hope I didn't encourage them to come back again by being too nice.

Does anyone actually invite these people in and listen to their sales pitch? It's kind of like real world spam. It must work some percentage of time or they wouldn't keep doing it right?

I talk with them because we have several friends who either are or were JWs. Had one who came by every Sunday evening for 6-8 months, then one evening something "clicked" and he never returned. That is a long story.

Depends on the motive for having them return;

1) Learning what they believe - yes
2) Proselytize them - maybe, if you know how to talk to them
3) Argue with them - no
4) have them in for tea - maybe

 

[atlashunter]

What do you guys think about Ex 3:15? God also told Moses, “Say to the Israelites, ‘The LORD, the God of your fathers— the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob— has sent me to you.’ This is My name forever, and this is how I am to be remembered in every generation. This is my name to be remembered by.. "Yahweh" translated "The Lord".

I think the author is trying to replace El with Yahweh.

 

[transfixer]

I talk with them because we have several friends who either are or were JWs. Had one who came by every Sunday evening for 6-8 months, then one evening something "clicked" and he never returned. That is a long story.

Depends on the motive for having them return;

1) Learning what they believe - yes
2) Proselytize them - maybe, if you know how to talk to them
3) Argue with them - no
4) have them in for tea - maybe

It is virtually impossible to have a meaningful conversation with them, they will not waver from what they have had instilled into them by the society, in their minds their beliefs are the be all / end all, they will not entertain any other possibilities, even though their belief system was originated and still modified by men who are not perfect, not infallible, question them about their societies prediction that armageddon was going to happen in 1975 ,,,, I was 12 or 13 yrs old at the time of that prediction, was still being forced to be a part of that organization by my parents, I remember being scared to death the world was going to end ! and then ,,,, oh wow ! it didn't happen ! How could the one true religion have been wrong ? Because the one true religion is based on certain individuals interpretations of the bible, individuals who are imperfect just like everyone else in the world !

If you ever get one of them to open their mind to the possibility that the witnesses belief system might be flawed,, then they start to question things, and when they start to question they realize there are serious issues with the way the Witnesses believe.

 

[kmh1031]

Again I appreciate your comments and the personal experiences, but that is not the mainstream JW experience or teachings.

Impossible to have a meaningful conversion: We have meaningful conversations with millions of people everyday, and if they are interested in talking and listening, to our message, then fine, and we listen to their beliefs. We are out everyday, preaching and talking to millions.

Our beliefs are modified by imperfect men: Is there any religions on earth today that have a perfect man or group of men directing them? IF so, please let me know.
Granted we are imperfect, but the bible, the sword of the spirit, sets the matters straight and we adhere to it and its teachings.

I was around in that era, and I do know that many "read into" comments about 1975 but nothing was said from the organazation, or in writing that it was going to end in 1975.

My experience (and my brother was one of them) is that many JWs at the time read more into what was published than was meant.

Thus the runaway train of some on the date. Many who left, are no longer JWs and that is their choice as they did not use a sound mind and study of the bible "the son does not even know the day or hour") to reason out their false thinking.

As far as open minds to other things, what we believe and teach is from the bible, and not from an individual....test our beliefs against what is written.
Compare our beliefs to the apostles, and the early congregation, and Jesus teachings.

As they are not "traditions of men, or the tickling of the ears, or false teachings".

If one feels they truly have the truth after "testing it" against the teachings of the bible, then why would one look elsewhere?

Clearly there was one true religion in Jesus day, and there is only one today.
100,000 religions and splinter religions today cannot all lead to god nor please God.

I am sure you are aware that Jesus gave his followers several signs on how to identify the true religion today as he said oppressive wolves would enter the congregation....and twist the thinking,...etc

As previously said, I was in another religion before becoming a JW: Baptist, and my wife Methodist. We left those as we were seeking for the "truth", and could not get many simple bible questions answered by the church. Then we started studying with JWs.
65% of current JWs worldwide were of other religions, many for the same reason above.

Just remember, the scribes and pharisees of Jesus day thought they had the true religion...and were so stubborn in their beliefs, they could not see he was the Messiah, had the sayings of eternal life, and were blinded.

SO we all can open our minds and apply that litmus test to our own beliefs and see which closely follow those signs that Jesus gave.

 

[NE GA Pappy]

From the WatchTower, 1911 publication.

Notice 1874 and on timeline

 

[kmh1031]

Published in 1911....Just a question:
how much has other religions changed their thinking, beliefs, understanding in over 100 years?
Many of those changes have been to the detriment of the bible and its teachings, including getting entrenched in politics, and the admission of Gays, participation in wars, and more?

1874 Second advent of the lord...vs 1914, end of the gentile times...careful calculation of a time period...according to bible chronology.

As 1914 shows by world signs Jesus has taken power of his kingdom. Remember? We pray for that int he Lords prayer...they kingdom come..

He clearly gave the signs of his presence, in Matt and Mark, Luke 21 and elsewhere.

1914 appears to be correct if you read secular history, and compare it to what Jesus said would be the sign of his "presence".

His presence is not a physical one...because he said "and just a little while longer and the world will behold me NO MORE?" SO what was it...thus the SIGNS of his coming, or presence...

It is noteworthy that the original greek word used here Parousia means Presence...not a viewing of actual event...or person.
Much like we see the leaves falling, cold in the air, we know fall is "present"

What happened then in 1914? One of the first things he did was cast Satan and his demons out of heaven....as they had free rein to some and go....Peace taken away from the world..and WWI broke out. Was peace taken away? Absolutely.....
DOnt take my word for it...not historical shows etc that shows that fact, before and after 1914.

Note Revelation 12:12
SO Jesus is actively working in this kingdom and soon will begin to fill those promises of the kingdom...Rev 21:34 and most importantly Daniel 2:44, end of all worldly govts, (political powers) and Babylon the great...false religion...

 

[kmh1031]

No one is required....to preach.....

However Once you learn the truths of the Bible....you want to teach others!

Next no promotions, clergy, preachers on payroll

Spiritual men must meet the qualifications in bible and ther families for Elders and Ministrial servants..examples in the congreation, not promoted...
Their work,
Shepherd the flock, visit, teach, take the lead as examples in the ministry, maintain the Kingdom Hall, handle much more....they are servants...workers not a promotion in sense u discussed..


As footstep followers of Christ, we adhere to his command to preach...depending on our circumstances go door to door, business witness, use of carts at parks, and more to try to reach as many people as possible.
If one is a Christian....then it is critical we follow his commands... Matt 28:19-20... GO therefore and make disciples....not a casual request.

Also Matt 24;14.... this good news of the kingdom MUST be preached....

So it could me or my wife, an older JW, a young person, or a pioneer who is FUll time in the ministry as it is our Vocation...regardlesss....and secular work is our avocation.

Reason for coming back to visit....

.if you are interested in learning the truths of the Bible...simply put like Jesus, his disciples, and the early Christians...they went looking for honest hearted ones to talk to.
We are the same...if you seem interested...or would like to have us come back...the. We will..if not...we move on....no other motive as some have put it.


As far as the dead, resurrection, life on earth...the bible teaches that death will be done away with, perfect life on earth restored. and many more blessings...
Jesus gave us a glimpse of that when he was here by raising the dead, curing the sick, and more...thus the message and benefit of his kingdom we all pray for.

Check out Ps 37...whole chapter about wicked done away with earth being restored and the meek inheriting the earth...
No burning ****....but **** the grave.. hades, Sheol, simply the grave.

Test the burn in ell for wicked... to this Scripture.. Romans 6:7 all who have died have been acquitted of their sin...? How does everlasting torture play into that scripture?

We did not make that up...that is the Bible teachings...ecc 9;5-10, Ps 146;3-4, Ezekiel 18:4 and more show when u die... u r simply dead.

Also..Over 100 prophesies in Bible about earth restored in future and righteous living on it.

Our reasons for coming back....is our heartfelt desire to help all gain accurate knowledge....not interested..... simply let us know...

 

[NE GA Pappy]

Published in 1911....Just a question:
how much has other religions changed their thinking, beliefs, understanding in over 100 years?
Many of those changes have been to the detriment of the bible and its teachings, including getting entrenched in politics, and the admission of Gays, participation in wars, and more?

1874 Second advent of the lord...vs 1914, end of the gentile times...careful calculation of a time period...according to bible chronology.

As 1914 shows by world signs Jesus has taken power of his kingdom. Remember? We pray for that int he Lords prayer...they kingdom come..

He clearly gave the signs of his presence, in Matt and Mark, Luke 21 and elsewhere.

1914 appears to be correct if you read secular history, and compare it to what Jesus said would be the sign of his "presence".

His presence is not a physical one...because he said "and just a little while longer and the world will behold me NO MORE?" SO what was it...thus the SIGNS of his coming, or presence...

It is noteworthy that the original greek word used here Parousia means Presence...not a viewing of actual event...or person.
Much like we see the leaves falling, cold in the air, we know fall is "present"

What happened then in 1914? One of the first things he did was cast Satan and his demons out of heaven....as they had free rein to some and go....Peace taken away from the world..and WWI broke out. Was peace taken away? Absolutely.....
DOnt take my word for it...not historical shows etc that shows that fact, before and after 1914.

Note Revelation 12:12
SO Jesus is actively working in this kingdom and soon will begin to fill those promises of the kingdom...Rev 21:34 and most importantly Daniel 2:44, end of all worldly govts, (political powers) and Babylon the great...false religion...

 

[1gr8bldr]

I think the author is trying to replace El with Yahweh.

I am not in agreement with "replacing EI with Yahweh". Reason being, the theory that I believe to be true, the JEPD theory, did I get that right?, says that the OT, not all, the first books, called the..... well, I am drawing blanks in my memory, was comprised of different writers. One group calling God Yahweh, the other EI, and another, lol, I can't recall. These different traditions, i'll call it, had different versions of writings, which were blended together to get the transcripts we have today. Interesting reading even if one does not buy into it, but I do. I often point out this verse in regards to the so called "I am" name. Trins say his name is "I Am". But that is just not so. He clearly tells us here what his name is, Yahweh. No one would say, my name is Bill and in the same breath, the name to be used from generation to generation is Kyle. I should explain the I Am statement. The I am is not a name but rather, I will be who I will be. Like a blank check, waiting to see what figure gets written in.

 

[Artfuldodger]

So what will happen in 2875 and 2914? Who prophesied those dates? Considering that no one, not even Jesus knows when he will return, can someone reveal those two future events that will require Jesus to physically be on the earth?

 

[Artfuldodger]

I don't see the need of anyone of any denomination giving out dates of Biblical future events. Even if they know, what purpose would it serve mankind?
If God has already made out his calendar of events, there isn't really anything we can do to change His mind!

 

[Artfuldodger]

Published in 1911....Just a question:
how much has other religions changed their thinking, beliefs, understanding in over 100 years?
Many of those changes have been to the detriment of the bible and its teachings, including getting entrenched in politics, and the admission of Gays, participation in wars, and more?

1874 Second advent of the lord...vs 1914, end of the gentile times...careful calculation of a time period...according to bible chronology.

As 1914 shows by world signs Jesus has taken power of his kingdom. Remember? We pray for that int he Lords prayer...they kingdom come..

He clearly gave the signs of his presence, in Matt and Mark, Luke 21 and elsewhere.

1914 appears to be correct if you read secular history, and compare it to what Jesus said would be the sign of his "presence".

His presence is not a physical one...because he said "and just a little while longer and the world will behold me NO MORE?" SO what was it...thus the SIGNS of his coming, or presence...

It is noteworthy that the original greek word used here Parousia means Presence...not a viewing of actual event...or person.
Much like we see the leaves falling, cold in the air, we know fall is "present"

What happened then in 1914? One of the first things he did was cast Satan and his demons out of heaven....as they had free rein to some and go....Peace taken away from the world..and WWI broke out. Was peace taken away? Absolutely.....
DOnt take my word for it...not historical shows etc that shows that fact, before and after 1914.

Note Revelation 12:12
SO Jesus is actively working in this kingdom and soon will begin to fill those promises of the kingdom...Rev 21:34 and most importantly Daniel 2:44, end of all worldly govts, (political powers) and Babylon the great...false religion...

1914 End of the Gentiles?
So that meant the end of the Gentile Kings?

If the 2nd Advent is spiritual and not physical, isn't that the same as Preterism?

 

[atlashunter]

I am not in agreement with "replacing EI with Yahweh". Reason being, the theory that I believe to be true, the JEPD theory, did I get that right?, says that the OT, not all, the first books, called the..... well, I am drawing blanks in my memory, was comprised of different writers. One group calling God Yahweh, the other EI, and another, lol, I can't recall. These different traditions, i'll call it, had different versions of writings, which were blended together to get the transcripts we have today. Interesting reading even if one does not buy into it, but I do. I often point out this verse in regards to the so called "I am" name. Trins say his name is "I Am". But that is just not so. He clearly tells us here what his name is, Yahweh. No one would say, my name is Bill and in the same breath, the name to be used from generation to generation is Kyle. I should explain the I Am statement. The I am is not a name but rather, I will be who I will be. Like a blank check, waiting to see what figure gets written in.

There’s more to it than that. Deuteronomy makes a distinction between El and Yahweh and we have evidence that translations of that passage changed over time in an apparent attempt to cover that up. Exodus 6 says Abraham knew god as El Shaddai but didn’t know him by his name implying that El and Yahweh are the same deity. But El was known as the supreme deity in Canaanite polytheism which predates Israeli monotheism. It’s like saying oh yeah you knew me as this other guy but actually this was my real name all along. Your ancestors just didn’t know that.

 

[1gr8bldr]

There’s more to it than that. Deuteronomy makes a distinction between El and Yahweh and we have evidence that translations of that passage changed over time in an apparent attempt to cover that up. Exodus 6 says Abraham knew god as El Shaddai but didn’t know him by his name implying that El and Yahweh are the same deity. But El was known as the supreme deity in Canaanite polytheism which predates Israeli monotheism. It’s like saying oh yeah you knew me as this other guy but actually this was my real name all along. Your ancestors just didn’t know that.

You retain info well. I believe I had read that before but totally was gone until you mention it. I should find time to refresh my memory on these topics

 

[atlashunter]

You retain info well. I believe I had read that before but totally was gone until you mention it. I should find time to refresh my memory on these topics

I’m not well read on it but it is a fascinating topic. It would be interesting to have the full story of Israel’s origin and their transition from polytheism to monotheism.