The Truth About God

Thread starter #1
Both preachers and writers, almost without exception, make God quite incomprehensible and beyond human reason; yet they can preach big sermons and write big books about the subject they know very little about, and which they claim no man can know the truth about. They seem to think that the best way to magnify God is to make Him a big mystery. This is one of the greatest errors of the Christian church of today.

There is no reasonable excuse for this ignorance of God, or for such a conception of Him, for in the Bible there are over 20,000 references about Him, stating in almost infinite detail what He is like, what he can do and cannot do, and what he has done and yet plans to do. We will thus magnify God best by believing and teaching everything the Bibles says about Him. We can have a comprehensive knowledge of God from these many references if we will but believe what they say, and stop making everything God says about Himself a lie.

Men have spiritualized and changed so many statements about God in Scripture that they have nullified the true meaning of the Bible revelation of Him. We have failed to get a true, sane, and simple knowledge of God in the past centuries by that method of interpretation; so why not change our tactics and believe for one time what the Bible says about Him and see if we will not have a better understanding of God? Why not believe what God says about Himself in the same literal sense in which we understand the same kind of language when it is used of anyone else? Why not believe that God means what He says about Himself? If God did not mean what He said of Himself, then, why did He say such things? Why should it be the unpardonable sin to believe the Bible literally on this subject, as we believe the Bible on other subjects? To believe literal what God said of Himself certainly does make better sense. It certainly will give us a better and more common-sense conception of God.

We have all been taught that God cannot be comprehended, and all the books on Bible doctrine make the subject of God vague, and beyond the reach of all sane men. Such books are good in explaining away what the Bible says of God; so for once we shall lay aside all such foolishness and take a stand with what the Bible does plainly say. Such action certainly cannot make the subject any more mysterious. We cannot be wrong if we simply believe what God reveals about Himself. Since we know how to understand the Bible literally. We shall be wise in following this practice with every subject in the Bible and not with just a few that we choose.

Man can understand all about the Lord's Supper, baptism, or any other subject from just a few passages, but when it comes to the subject of God in many thousands of passages they cannot understand the subject at all.
 
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Thread starter #2
Definition of the Terms Used

1. GOD. This word simply means deity or divinity and is a general term used of false gods as well as of the true. How many persons there are in the true deity cannot be determined by the word itself. Plain Scriptures on the subject must settle this question.

2. GODHEAD. This term simply means that which is divine. It is used of Jesus in Col. 2:9, as having all qualities of divinity in His manifestation of God to men. It is also used of all three persons in the deity in Rom. 1:20.

3. ONE. The Hebrew word for one in such Scriptures as "one Lord" (Deut. 6:4-6) and "one God" (Mal. 2:10) is achad, to unify, collect, be united in one, one in number. It is used as one in unity many times: "they shall be one flesh" (Gen. 2:24); "the people is one" (Gen. 11:6). The Greek word for one in "one Lord" and "one God" in Mark 12:29, 32 is heis, to gather together in one (John 11:52) and to be one in unity (John 10:30; 17:11, 21-23; 1 John 5:7, 8). The English word one also means one in unity, as can be seen in the above passages. Whether one in unity or one in number is the meaning in a particular passage must be determined by Scripture and not by the meaning of the word itself.

4. IN. This word means in union with and when used of persons it does not mean bodily entrance into, except, in the case of disembodied spirits, or demons. We read of God being in Christ (2 Cor. 5:19) and Christ being in God (John 14:10, 11, 20); of man being in Christ (2 Cor. 5:17) and Christ being in man(Rom. 8:10); of man being in the Spirit and the Spirit being in man (Rom. 8:9); and of Satan entering into man (John 13:27); but it never means in these cases bodily entrance into, for all these persons have bodies and cannot get inside each other bodily.
When Paul said of believers "I have you in my heart" and "ye are in our hearts" (2 Cor. 7:3; Phil. 1:7), he could only mean in union with , not bodily entrance into. The Bible doctrine of interpenetration means the union of two or more persons together for the same end. Thus, persons can be one with each other to a common end without literally getting inside each other or without being one single person. Being one with and in each other does not depend on bodily contact, or the loss of either personality. Persons can be in each other and one with each other, though there are thousands of miles between them bodily.
Men control each other to the extent of oneness with each other. So it is with God and Satan, who control men to the extent of union with them to the same end. Thus, When God dwelled in Christ and Christ dwelled in God, it did not mean they were one person or that they dwelt inside each other bodily. They were one in union-- one to the same end, in the same sense that men and Christ, or men and men, dwell in each other. He that is joined to the Lord is one Spirit (1 Cor. 6:17).

5.PERSON. A person is anyone who can act, think, and feel; anyone capable of self-consciousness and self- determination; any individual having legal rights and duties; a rational being with bodily presence, soul passions, and spirit faculties. In Grammar it means one of three separate relations of three separate persons in discourse distinguished by certain pronouns: that of THE SPEAKER, or the first person; that of THE ONE SPOKEN TO, or the second person; and that of THE ONE SPOKEN OF, or the third person.
First, second, and third personal pronouns are used of God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit in speaking TO and OF each other.
 

Israel

Senior Member
Definition of the Terms Used

1. GOD. This word simply means deity or divinity and is a general term used of false gods as well as of the true. How many persons there are in the true deity cannot be determined by the word itself. Plain Scriptures on the subject must settle this question.

2. GODHEAD. This term simply means that which is divine. It is used of Jesus in Col. 2:9, as having all qualities of divinity in His manifestation of God to men. It is also used of all three persons in the deity in Rom. 1:20.

3. ONE. The Hebrew word for one in such Scriptures as "one Lord" (Deut. 6:4-6) and "one God" (Mal. 2:10) is achad, to unify, collect, be united in one, one in number. It is used as one in unity many times: "they shall be one flesh" (Gen. 2:24); "the people is one" (Gen. 11:6). The Greek word for one in "one Lord" and "one God" in Mark 12:29, 32 is heis, to gather together in one (John 11:52) and to be one in unity (John 10:30; 17:11, 21-23; 1 John 5:7, 8). The English word one also means one in unity, as can be seen in the above passages. Whether one in unity or one in number is the meaning in a particular passage must be determined by Scripture and not by the meaning of the word itself.

4. IN. This word means in union with and when used of persons it does not mean bodily entrance into, except, in the case of disembodied spirits, or demons. We read of God being in Christ (2 Cor. 5:19) and Christ being in God (John 14:10, 11, 20); of man being in Christ (2 Cor. 5:17) and Christ being in man(Rom. 8:10); of man being in the Spirit and the Spirit being in man (Rom. 8:9); and of Satan entering into man (John 13:27); but it never means in these cases bodily entrance into, for all these persons have bodies and cannot get inside each other bodily.
When Paul said of believers "I have you in my heart" and "ye are in our hearts" (2 Cor. 7:3; Phil. 1:7), he could only mean in union with , not bodily entrance into. The Bible doctrine of interpenetration means the union of two or more persons together for the same end. Thus, persons can be one with each other to a common end without literally getting inside each other or without being one single person. Being one with and in each other does not depend on bodily contact, or the loss of either personality. Persons can be in each other and one with each other, though there are thousands of miles between them bodily.
Men control each other to the extent of oneness with each other. So it is with God and Satan, who control men to the extent of union with them to the same end. Thus, When God dwelled in Christ and Christ dwelled in God, it did not mean they were one person or that they dwelt inside each other bodily. They were one in union-- one to the same end, in the same sense that men and Christ, or men and men, dwell in each other. He that is joined to the Lord is one Spirit (1 Cor. 6:17).

5.PERSON. A person is anyone who can act, think, and feel; anyone capable of self-consciousness and self- determination; any individual having legal rights and duties; a rational being with bodily presence, soul passions, and spirit faculties. In Grammar it means one of three separate relations of three separate persons in discourse distinguished by certain pronouns: that of THE SPEAKER, or the first person; that of THE ONE SPOKEN TO, or the second person; and that of THE ONE SPOKEN OF, or the third person.
First, second, and third personal pronouns are used of God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit in speaking TO and OF each other.
Thank you. Through Christ.
 
Thread starter #4
2 Peter 3:16

Thank you. Through Christ.
3;16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
 
Thread starter #5
GOD IS A REAL PERSON
1 Personal names are given Him (Gen. 1:1; Ex. 3:13-15; 6:3; Ps. 68:4); and His names are found over 19,000 times in Scripture.

2 Personal statements are made about God, as with other persons.

3 Personal relationships are ascribed to God (2 Cor. 6:1; 13:14; 1 Jn. 1:3; 3:1; Rev. 21:3-7).

4 Personal plans are ascribed to Him.

5 A personal body, soul, and spirit are ascribed to Him.

6 Personal works are ascribed to Him. Many personal acts are recorded in the first two chapters of the Bible.

7 Personal pronouns are used of all three persons of the Divine Trinity, both singular and plural (Gen. 1:26; 3:22; 11:17; Isa. 6:8; Jn. 17:11-21).
 
Thread starter #6
INCRANATION, means a person assuming a body which he takes as his very own, dwelling inside that body and not existing in any sense outside the body which he has taken to dwell in (Ps. 40:6-10; Heb. 10:5-10).

FATHER AND SON. A father is one who has begotten or brought into existence a child. A son is the one who is begotten by the father. It requires two separate persons to be a father and a son. They could in no sense be one person, but could be one in unity, as any two persons can be.
 
INCRANATION, means a person assuming a body which he takes as his very own, dwelling inside that body and not existing in any sense outside the body which he has taken to dwell in (Ps. 40:6-10; Heb. 10:5-10).

FATHER AND SON. A father is one who has begotten or brought into existence a child. A son is the one who is begotten by the father. It requires two separate persons to be a father and a son. They could in no sense be one person, but could be one in unity, as any two persons can be.
I don't think Jesus took a body as his very own, it was his body. I would agree that after his incarnation he couldn't exist outside of that body. That he is still in that body because of his incarnation.

You think any two persons can be one in unity like God and his Son are?
 

Israel

Senior Member
I don't think Jesus took a body as his very own, it was his body. I would agree that after his incarnation he couldn't exist outside of that body. That he is still in that body because of his incarnation.

You think any two persons can be one in unity like God and his Son are?
I believe the faith of the Son of God brings all who believe into that same unity. With the Father, with Jesus Christ...and with one another.

But I merely repeat what Jesus asked of the Father. I suppose if there is a question, ours might only be "Does the Father say yes to the Son?" There may be nothing more important for a man to learn.

And we may find we are either asking that question, (which is never a source of shame...we are told to "ask, seek, knock") and being delighted in the answer, or ...well... hey!...I'm wrong...there is no "or".

This is the work of God, that you believe upon Him whom He has sent.

And

For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.
 
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Miguel Cervantes

GON Severe Weatherman
These preacher, these authors have done no injustice by anyone. There is a plethora of scripture that reinforce what they are preaching / writing. To dare "humanize" God may be where the injustice lies.
 
These preacher, these authors have done no injustice by anyone. There is a plethora of scripture that reinforce what they are preaching / writing. To dare "humanize" God may be where the injustice lies.
Humanize God? You mean like "persons of the Trinity", "He", "Father & Son", "Mary Mother of God", "incarnate as man", "made in his image" and "seeing Jesus as he is and becoming like him"?

These traits we possess, our emotions, etc. are human. Do we get these by being made in the image of God? Our very image is from God.

It was also mentioned that the Son of God can bring us into that unity with the Father. Maybe more like return us to that image.

I'm not saying that being made in God's image makes God human. I'm just saying there is some connection. God had a Son for eternity. There is that Father & Son connection that we all have as humans as well.

You can't separate the human aspect from God because it's always been there. The Word was with God and the plan has always been.
Our image has always been made in his image.

This aspect of God as Father and Son has always been. There has to be some connection to humans. The Son later incarnates as a human.
He had an earthly Mother. He was human regardless of his deity or divinity.

Jesus also ascended as a human. In his own body. That's a bit different than God just using a body to incarnate in. It's not like he randomly chose a woman, fertilized her egg, and incarnate in her child. He was that Child. He was the actual Son of God.

His body wasn't just a container for God to dwell in. It wasn't discarded. It wasn't resurrected by the Father and used for the Ascension just for show.
 
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Miguel Cervantes

GON Severe Weatherman
The OP disputes the preachers and authors claims that God is beyond our comprehension. Our image / His image notwithstanding does not lessen his omnipotence and incomprehensibility.

Psalm 145:3
Romans 11:33
Isaiah 55:8-9
Job 26

etc. etc. etc.
 

gordon 2

Senior Member
""Since we know how to understand the Bible literally. We shall be wise in following this practice with every subject in the Bible and not with just a few that we choose." quote

I'm not sure this is the way?
 

Israel

Senior Member
Being made relatable to God through Jesus Christ can never presuppose that now our understanding is complete. How much of natural "thinking" remains to be renewed in light one may never be certain of, of himself, only that God through Christ will continue to enlighten. Of this we can be certain. We are even told that one assurance of "sonship" is the enduring of much chastening.

Who is not being disabused of natural thought...and reaction? Who...is not being chastened, as needed? We speak much of Paul (and rightly of other brothers having gone before) yet, even Paul didn't seem to strain himself to say "not as though I am already made perfect...but this one thing I do..."

Our inferences, right, wrong, or otherwise, are being changed to convictions of truth, and instruction in matters spiritual comes with admonition to "Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind."

There is much to consider in this, likewise: "Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;..."

How often has this happened to any? A desire for light in one particular area seems strangely refused, and the spirit may seem all of silent to us. We strain, we struggle...and then begin to sense this resistance is moving us...almost funneling us, into a direction in which we had not sought light. We discover...as we continue (perhaps)...a conversation not unlike "But I want to know of this"...yet the Spirit is saying "no"..."This other thing I am moving you to consider is the real issue at hand". And submission there...has often led to a shedding of light in what at first troubled us to know. I know I have often been all of turned, learning it was not the spirit resisting me...but my own "choosing" of how and what I believe "I need to know" that has allowed me at odds. But, the Spirit...is never wrong.

"What rightly serves life?" What rightly manifests the love of God...in the knowing? Questions come...from and in our own selves...from others, from any myriad of places...and we sense lack till finding an answer. We feel a pull to have...in order to give. Jesus was chased by crowds...when just wanting to find some solitude, and much is seen of Him in his abandon of His own need...rightly he tells us "men ought always to pray and not faint". Even when fainting seems all left to us.

But, I do not "know how to do this"...but learning to trust the One who tells us this is our way, in a pursuit that may seem to lead to all of needing to faint...will find ample support in that time of need. Even if it at first only be a simple lesson "Lord, I am all that is at best...only ready to faint". Help!
 
Thread starter #14
THE INVISIBILITY OF GOD. When we use the word invisible we must not think of it altogether in the terms of substance, but mainly as distance--beyond eyesight, beyond natural visibility. God has been seen with the natural eyes many times, so His invisibility is not something beyond spiritual or physical possibility of manifestation or sight, He will be seen by men in all eternity as we see each other now (Rev. 21:2-7; 22:4, 5; Ezek. 43:7; 48:35). He can appear visible or invisible to natural eyes now; and when eyesight is adjusted to see spiritual things, then spiritual sight will be as simple and normal as natural sight now. Angels and other spirit beings have also been seen by natural eyes . Our natural eyes are not adjusted not to see even some material things, as they will be in the day when God removes the covering of darkness and the vale that is now spread over all nations--a condition existing since the fall of man (Isa. 24:21, 22; 25:7; 1 Cor. 13:12). Then, the light of the sun will be increased seven times, and the light of the moon will be as the present light of the sun.(Isa. 24:23; 30:26). Even man's invisible soul and spirit, or the inner man has been and can be seen (Luke 16:19-31; Rev. 6:19-11); therefore it is possible for all spirits and spiritual things to be seen. Sin has blinded the natural sight of man so that now we see only through a glass darkly (1 Cor. 13:12). No man, therefore, can say with Scriptural authority, that God consists of a kind of invisible substance which cannot be seen or touched by man. In fact, God will live among men in visible form for ever (Rev. 21:3-7; 22:4, 5).
 
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THE INVISIBILITY OF GOD. When we use the word invisible we must not think of it altogether in the terms of substance, but mainly as distance--beyond eyesight, beyond natural visibility. God has been seen with the natural eyes many times, so His invisibility is not something beyond spiritual or physical possibility of manifestation or sight, He will be seen by men in all eternity as we see each other now (Rev. 21:2-7; 22:4, 5; Ezek. 43:7; 48:35). He can appear visible or invisible to natural eyes now; and when eyesight is adjusted to see spiritual things, then spiritual sight will be as simple and normal as natural sight now. Angels and other spirit beings have also been seen by natural eyes . Our natural eyes are not adjusted not to see even some material things, as they will be in the day when God removes the covering of darkness and the vale that is now spread over all nations--a condition existing since the fall of man (Isa. 24:21, 22; 25:7; 1 Cor. 13:12). Then, the light of the sun will be increased seven times, and the light of the moon will be as the present light of the sun.(Isa. 24:23; 30:26). Even man's invisible soul and spirit, or the inner man has been and can be seen (Luke 16:19-31; Rev. 6:19-11); therefore it is possible for all spirits and spiritual things to be seen. Sin has blinded the natural sight of man so that now we see only through a glass darkly (1 Cor. 13:12). No man, therefore, can say with Scriptural authority, that God consists of a kind of invisible substance which cannot be seen or touched by man. In fact, God will live among men in visible form foe ever (Rev. 21:3-7; 22:4, 5).
Have you ever seen Deliverance?
 
Thread starter #16
TRUE INTERPRETATION OF GOD AS SPIRIT, JOHN 4:24

If we can ever come to the knowledge of what spirit beings are like, then we can begin
to comprehend God as Spirit. There are hundreds of plain Scriptures which help us to gain such knowledge.

The Bible declares that there are heavenly and earthly bodies and that there is a natural body, and THERE IS A SPIRITUAL BODY (1 Cor. 15:35-58). We learn from this passage that all things in creation have separate bodies from all others--bodies for grain, fish, birds, beasts, man and every living thing on earth--bodies for the sun, moon, stars, and all material things in the heavens--bodies for angels, cherubims, serapbims, and all spirit beings in the spirit world. No exception is made here or anywhere in the Bible to the effect that God alone of all beings in the universe does not have a body.
 

Madman

Senior Member
We have all been taught that God cannot be comprehended, and all the books on Bible doctrine make the subject of God vague, and beyond the reach of all sane men. Such books are good in explaining away what the Bible says of God; so for once we shall lay aside all such foolishness and take a stand with what the Bible does plainly say. Such action certainly cannot make the subject any more mysterious. We cannot be wrong if we simply believe what God reveals about Himself. Since we know how to understand the Bible literally. We shall be wise in following this practice with every subject in the Bible and not with just a few that we choose.

We can not really comprehend God.

1) the mind of no created being can see God by it's own natural power.
2) We will never know God completely because we can only know something as it exists and God is infinite.
3) when we say what something is we define it and to define something is to set boundaries to the way it exists.
 
These preacher, these authors have done no injustice by anyone. There is a plethora of scripture that reinforce what they are preaching / writing. To dare "humanize" God may be where the injustice lies.
I agree completely. Regarding the OP, if someone doesn't know God, it's the individuals fault. Romans 1 makes this explicitly clear.
 
Thread starter #19
When Jesus said, "a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have" Luke 24:39, He certainly did not want to leave the impression that spirit bodies were not real and tangible. He simply taught that spirit bodies were not composed of earthly flesh and bone. He could not have meant that God does not have a real spirit body, for He taught elsewhere that God had a voice and a shape (John 5:37), He showed John in Rev. 4 and 5 that God had a body and could sit on a throne as well as anyone else. The Greek word for shape in John 5:37 is eidos, meaning form, appearance, shape, fashion, or sight, and refers to outward form or what can be seen with the eyes, as is clear from Luke 3:22; 9:29; 2 Cor. 5:7.
 

Israel

Senior Member
We can not really comprehend God.

1) the mind of no created being can see God by it's own natural power.
2) We will never know God completely because we can only know something as it exists and God is infinite.
3) when we say what something is we define it and to define something is to set boundaries to the way it exists.
It is all quite wonderful, isn't it?

Are we not also, as God (I believe) would have us see, no less than that to and with one another?
Love does something...and without contradiction I mean to speak of that love...which is love...which is of God. We are, even now (perhaps only in the "now") given to experience an infinitude of depth, even with one another. Grace is (God forbid I be cavalier) not unlike a "wild card", which when played changes all.

I do not mean we are in a game, nor that we "play" one another...nor that God is playing with us (as men might understand a man "toying" with another). But in one sense God is indeed playing with His children as in the very most sublime and healthiest sense. God...loves...being with us. Yet we are children, His children...formed of His love to grow and become, even through many surprises...to know what a good and loving Father (the only good and loving Father without need of repentance) He is. Is this not our great gift through Jesus Christ...to bring us to Daddy? To make plain the way home is all that is safe? And that all the ways of home...are also...safe...and good?

Yes...what a wandering we took! Grace had even allowed for that, could not refuse that, would not refuse...that. From the beginning we were created to know "no restriction"...but something took advantage, a jealousy allowed...even...that we might discover our childlike perception of it, and its misunderstanding...might even bring us to know a true jealousy guarded in a heart to be made known. Oh yes...to begin to apprehend those fiery eyes upon us...burning for what is of "own" to God, our God...under which we may shrink...are all, and only....to our preservation.

Jesus grew in stature...into perfect "lambhood"... a preserved innocence undeniable. So very small...His Father could do anything with Him...(this we saw, and began to perceive as always the Lord's way before His Father). This was not a something he did "one day", though we have seen it...but His continual way...to do nothing except with...Daddy. So he told our brother..."when you were young...you did what you wanted, went where you wanted...but when you are old...you will stretch forth your hands, and another shall gird you...and take you where you wouldn't go"

What a picture of a man growing to be a child. Not childish (as the world does encourage in self indulgence)...but childlike...as we truly are to our Father's delight.
And this...our childlikeness...opens doors to and for one another. We find...each is as mysterious and wonderful a well of "delightful unknowns" (men, think of the woman you think you know...as wife) we are brought to marvel at...through grace.

You are correct...in this... "man's" knowing is always and only to limit, to define, to draw line of containment around...for the handling. Grace is rather explosive to those things with which we seek to contain one another. And love...that is love...opens to us a knowing of what we have not yet known, yet we know...is love.

Is there anyone else to know...but source? And all of that...source? Only the gift of a single eye, which is given us in Christ... can show us how marvelous it is to grow in grace (under an eye so jealous for us) that He has determined we fail not at marvelling at its (His) sufficiency in, and to...all things.

At that very time He rejoiced greatly in the Holy Spirit, and said, "I praise You, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and intelligent and have revealed them to infants. Yes, Father, for this way was well-pleasing in Your sight.

Our growth and tending is so very precise to make us...marvel. Even at and with, one another. Grace...is wild...like that. We just can't harness it, tame it...force it to our own use, or limit its appearing. LOL...try to withold it...and...better reach for some salve...quick! But...we can...live (and only live) in it.

Henceforth we know no man after the flesh...
 
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