The Union of the Two Natures of Jesus Christ

Art, it occurs to me that you might have the knowledge to try building yourself an analogy with an electronic control system.
Which relays are Normally Closed, and which are Normally Open, and what are the sources of the energizing power and the control power. It can get complicated, but the components are there.
 
Art, it occurs to me that you might have the knowledge to try building yourself an analogy with an electronic control system.
Which relays are Normally Closed, and which are Normally Open, and what are the sources of the energizing power and the control power. It can get complicated, but the components are there.
That might work, I have been in the engineering field most of my life. Does it have to be electronic. I'm more of an old analog or digital control person. Maybe even an electric signal changed to pneumatic via a transducer.
I have always liked to make it work on paper before actually building it. Even then it don't always work. The equipment can't always read my paper and know how they are suppose to operate. (lol)
 
One more thought;

Colossians 3:4-6
When Christ, who is your life, appears, then you also will appear with Him in glory. 5Put to death, therefore, the components of your earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires, and greed, which is idolatry. 6Because of these, the wrath of God is coming on the sons of disobedience.

Verse 5; "put to death"
This and other verses appear to be saying, there is something I must do to shed myself of these old components.

I know, I know who is in control of the controls and the components. Even with me being a new person. Even with me having God's Spirit within. I can't help but seeing some liberty from the New person as well.
That maybe he has control of a few relays.

I see God having a relay in series to my parallel relays which are downstream from God's series relay. Maybe?
 
My enigma is this. If I'm made in the image of God, and my old self was crucified along with it's desires, why is there still a struggle?
If I'm a New person born of the Spirit, my sins were wiped clean, why does it even matter?
Why would the Spirit even struggle with flesh? Is it just to show us something about who we were? To show us who our New self is?

I would think with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, my struggles would be over. I know that sin no longer controls me but I see no purpose for it still being in me or even it's ability to still be in me.
 
Visualizing the analog components, and moving them around, along with the lines on paper,is easier than just lines on paper. It seems that you have grabbed the idea as I thought you might.

About those multiple "why" questions that are in almost every post; try my sig line.
 

gordon 2

Senior Member
My enigma is this. If I'm made in the image of God, and my old self was crucified along with it's desires, why is there still a struggle?
If I'm a New person born of the Spirit, my sins were wiped clean, why does it even matter?
Why would the Spirit even struggle with flesh? Is it just to show us something about who we were? To show us who our New self is?

I would think with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, my struggles would be over. I know that sin no longer controls me but I see no purpose for it still being in me or even it's ability to still be in me.

Not everyone remains firm in what they have learned and received from the HS with complete conviction. 2ed Tim. 3:14 and 1st Tim 1:7 . And saints don't always keep the faith.... 1st tim 19. Some saints don 't stay attached to the truth revealed by faith with a pure conscience. 3:9 Some people (saints) just don't organize their lives so to cleave to God, 1 Tim.4:7-8 as the HS informs us. Some participate in the sins of others and don't keep themselves pur. 1 Tim 5:22
 

gemcgrew

Senior Member
Not everyone remains firm in what they have learned and received from the HS with complete conviction. 2ed Tim. 3:14 and 1st Tim 1:7 . And saints don't always keep the faith.... 1st tim 19. Some saints don 't stay attached to the truth revealed by faith with a pure conscience. 3:9 Some people (saints) just don't organize their lives so to cleave to God, 1 Tim.4:7-8 as the HS informs us. Some participate in the sins of others and don't keep themselves pur. 1 Tim 5:22
God prepared a kingdom for all of the saints and this before the foundation of the world. If just one saint fails to get there, none will inhabit it. The failure would be Christ, the author and finisher of the faith.

Posers have but one nature.
 
God prepared a kingdom for all of the saints and this before the foundation of the world. If just one saint fails to get there, none will inhabit it. The failure would be Christ, the author and finisher of the faith.

Posers have but one nature.
I don't think that is what Gordon is saying. Regardless, even if it is from God and it may well be, saints are quenching the Holy Spirit. Saints are struggling with their flesh. The Spirit is at conflict with the flesh. The two forces are constantly fighting each other.

This conflict doesn't take away from the election of the saints. Not even one ever fails. Yet even if from God, the conflict is there. The battle, the struggle, the liberty to quench or resist the Spirit.

I have personally experienced resisting the Holy Spirit. I know that it hasn't affected my election but none the less, I have resisted the Holy Spirit. It may have been from God but I have resisted the Holy Spirit.

It may not even be important or worth mentioning, but I have resisted the Holy Spirit. It felt like it was a liberty. That I told myself to quench it.
How this is possible, I don't know. Why is it possible, I don't know. I just know that I am aware that I did it.

I just flat out made him not manifest himself in me the way he was trying to do. It was just this one time I ever felt this or did this. I was on the verge or jumping up and shouting or dancing. I really didn't know what I would have done.
Frankly it scared me a bit. It was a force I've never felt. It was beyond real and I just got paranoid and quenched it.
 

gordon 2

Senior Member
When I read 1st and 2ed Timothy I read that Paul disagrees with both of you-- but it might be me over-riding the HS in me that would have me see as both of you see and some sin in me sees not as you both.

But for now in 2ed Timothy Paul is saying to me as I read his councils to Timothy that despite Timothy having faith and a definite calling he can still go astray and loose the prize for himself due to several things.

Paul explains a list of things that ruin eternal life ( after one has received it) and then says... 1 Tim 6:11 But you, man of God, flee from all this, and pursue righteousness, godliness, faith, love, endurance and gentleness.

1 Timothy 1:18-19 King James Version (KJV)
18 This charge I commit unto thee, son Timothy, according to the prophecies which went before on thee, that thou by them mightest war a good warfare;

19 Holding faith, and a good conscience; which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck:

PS.. I just saw something here under my banner. " Senior Member"! And saw it under many banners? So is this now our new home? The Home of the Codgers for Christ ?
 
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Maintained by whom?
The liberty (ability) to do good works("walk" in newness of life), is given and maintained by God. He gives the faith necessary for that. It is also possible for us, even with this liberty, to have a dead faith. Faith without works is dead. Therefore, Paul admonishes in Titus 3 for us to "maintain good works".

8 This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.

This "maintaining" is something that is learned. We grow through certain discipline.

14 And let our's also learn to maintain good works for necessary uses, that they be not unfruitful.
 
God prepared a kingdom for all of the saints and this before the foundation of the world. If just one saint fails to get there, none will inhabit it. The failure would be Christ, the author and finisher of the faith.

Posers have but one nature.
Ultimately yes.
But in this temporal, there are hindrances to experiencing this kingdom now.

Matthew 23:13
13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.
 

gordon 2

Senior Member
I have always assumed that being a saint, it followed that part of that sainthood was being in The Kingdom otherwise calling Jesus Lord would be just mimicking an echo from echos or without apprehended foundation in reality. From our perspective we might say " The Kingdom is in us", and us meant as the extended community of believers, not only according to what Jesus said as in " The kingdom is in you." , but according to the lay of our spiritual lands as we now occupy them.

Is it not recorded in the OT that God argues that Isreal, the hebrews, need no king, they have one in Himself? Has not Jesus replaced David? in our times.
 
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Not everyone remains firm in what they have learned and received from the HS with complete conviction. 2ed Tim. 3:14 and 1st Tim 1:7 . And saints don't always keep the faith.... 1st tim 19. Some saints don 't stay attached to the truth revealed by faith with a pure conscience. 3:9 Some people (saints) just don't organize their lives so to cleave to God, 1 Tim.4:7-8 as the HS informs us. Some participate in the sins of others and don't keep themselves pur. 1 Tim 5:22
Imperative is not Declarative; or is it.

When we tell another to do something, or another tells us to do something, there is no indication, from that instruction, that action will be taken or that the action, if taken, will accomplish the intended result. Most of the time one of the two parties, and many times both of the parties, are aware of factors, often out of the control of one, or both, that will effect, or even negate or insure, compliance with the instruction given and/or that action, if taken, will accomplish the intended result.

So, why give, or favorably receive, the instruction? There are two reasons. One is to inform. The instructor may be acting to inform the receiver of something of which he is unaware. The other is to remind. The instructor may be acting to bring the receiver's attention to something of which the receiver is aware, and the instructor believes needs to be given particular attention in a given situation. Whether to inform or to remind, when given in love (agape) the instruction (imperative) serves to fulfil the declarative purpose of encouragement as the receiver sets out on the task ahead of him.

So it is when Paul instructs Timothy; sometimes informing, sometimes reminding, always encouraging.
 
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gordon 2

Senior Member
Imperative is not Declarative; or is it.

When we tell another to do something, or another tells us to do something, there is no indication, from that instruction, that action will be taken or that the action, if taken, will accomplish the intended result. Most of the time one of the two parties, and many times both of the parties, are aware of factors, often out of the control of one, or both, that will effect, or even negate or insure, compliance with the instruction given and/or that action, if taken, will accomplish the intended result.

So, why give, or favorably receive, the instruction? There are two reasons. One is to inform. The instructor may be acting to inform the receiver of something of which he is unaware. The other is to remind. The instructor may be acting to bring the receiver's attention to something of which the receiver is aware, and the instructor believes needs to be given particular attention in a given situation. Whether to inform or to remind, when given in love (agape) the instruction (imperative) serves to fulfil the declarative purpose of encouragement as the receiver sets out on the task ahead of him.

So it is when Paul instructs Timothy; sometimes informing, sometimes reminding, always encouraging.


When Paul gives instructions regards deacons...he declares how they are to act... which I assume perhaps incorrectly they can act in the inverse of the instructions.

He gives instructions to women and how they will be saved if they follow such instrutions... I also assume that if they don't follow or go a different path they will not be saved?

Paul gives instruction on how to be a good servant of Christ. I assume one can forego these instructions-- with the implication that one would not be a good servant, if a servant at all.

Why would Jesus say don't put a bucket over your lamp, let it shine?

In any case Paul was not just reminding Timothy of important things which Timothy already knew... he was telling Timothy what was truth and how to get at it, within the family of God and within himself. Maybe? And indicating that some who like Paul and Timothy who were called to the teaching ministry could be confused by the push and pull of the world's motivations and end up teaching falsely. And some of these folks Paul say I have handed them over to Satin.... ! I assume that some of these were not more special than Timothy or that Timothy was not more special then them.

It seems that Paul is teaching it is easy to fall into the traps of pride and arrogance! And Timothy don't think you can't be a victim-- even that you are full with faith and have the certainty ( and my certainty) that you are called.
 
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When Paul gives instructions regards deacons...he declares how they are to act... which I assume perhaps incorrectly they can act in the inverse of the instructions.

He gives instructions to women and how they will be saved if they follow such instrutions... I also assume that if they don't follow or go a different path they will not be saved?

Paul gives instruction on how to be a good servant of Christ. I assume one can forego these instructions-- with the implication that one would not be a good servant, if a servant at all.

Why would Jesus say don't put a bucket over your lamp, let it shine?

In any case Paul was not just reminding Timothy of important things which Timothy already knew... he was telling Timothy what was truth and how to get at it, within the family of God and within himself. Maybe? And indicating that some who like Paul and Timothy who were called to the teaching ministry could be confused by the push and pull of the world's motivations and end up teaching falsely. And some of these folks Paul say I have handed them over to Satin.... ! I assume that some of these were not more special than Timothy or that Timothy was not more special then them.

It seems that Paul is teaching it is easy to fall into the traps of pride and arrogance! And Timothy don't think you can't be a victim-- even that you are full with faith and have the certainty ( and my certainty) that you are called.
Ah, but he was...Did not Timothy have a heart of flesh, given by God upon which was written His Law; did not Timothy have the Spirit, given by God by which His Law is understood. Did God not sent Paul to inform and remind of that which was written on Timothy's heart, and did not God also send Timothy, through Paul, to inform and remind the saints, who also had a heart of flesh, given by God, and the Spirit, given by God.
 

Israel

Senior Member
Peter wrote:

Therefore I will not be negligent to put you always in remembrance of these things, though you know them, and are established in the present truth.

Paul wrote:

Finally, my brothers, rejoice in the Lord. To write the same things to you, to me indeed is not grievous, but for you it is safe.


John wrote:

But the anointing which you have received of him abides in you, and you need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teaches you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it has taught you, you shall abide in him.

The calling of apostle that rested upon these brothers, though wonderful to the Church and to our great benefit...is first and foremost given to them...as salvation.

The calling...is in the call. The outworking of their wonderful revelations as to their own significance, their own importance, their own necessity...so worked in them, (to salvation) that through them (to salvation) the clarion might be clear...to man, none but Christ is necessity. And how thoroughly they learned it (to their salvation)...and how meticulous they were in attentiveness to that call, that we might.

There are words I hear in the spirit. I hear them. "If only (a) Paul could visit us...we would roll out the red carpet"


And there is laughter I hear in spirit...also.
 
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