The Unrighteous Will Not Inherit the Kingdom...

[Artfuldodger]

I could be wrong, but that's how I interpret the Sheep/goat separation. Sheep are followers, goats are rebellious. Only those who have the testimony of Jesus AND keep the commandments can go in. Goats are outside. (IMO)

But do the goats gain eternal life? Maybe i'm confused but I thought you were describing a group that will receive eternal life and then a smaller group within that group that inherits the kingdom based on works. You said "Rewards and inheritance are totally different." I'm trying to understand that.

 

[Artfuldodger]

I'm asking if there are three groups. Those that are not saved from eternal death, those that are saved from eternal death, and those out of that group who inherit the Kingdom?

 

[BANDERSNATCH]

Ah! Sorry.... IMO, there are 3 groups. The Righteous obedient, the righteous rebellious, and unbelievers. I believe Paul, when he said that anyone in Christ would be raised at his coming (not before in some PreTrib rapture) The rest of the dead are not raised till the end of the millennium. I also believe that the resurrection happens when the two witnesses are resurrected....and the witnesses are plainly said to be the two olive branches, the House of Isreal and the house of Judah...not two individual men.

 

[Spineyman]

Exactly! It is a gift, but many take it to mean that God doesn't care about sin anymore. Our Messiah Himself said that we would be great in heaven if we keep His commandments but, sadly, most Christians look down on others who are keeping the commandments. Matt 5:17-19

We are unable to keep anything . That is why Jesus when He went away said He would send the Helper. The Holy Spirit now dwells inside of the ones who have been born again. That is the only way that we keep His Commandments The Law was never given to save us, but to show us our inability to keep it. Which in turn drives us to Christ, for He is the end of the Law, and gives us His Grace. Yes we are to be repentant and killing our sin, but Christ has already imputed to us His Righteousness, and took upon Himself our sin when He was nailed to a cross!

 

[Spineyman]

Romans 6
Dead to Sin, Alive to God
6 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? 3 Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? 4 Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

5 For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection, 6 knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be [a]done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin. 7 For he who has died has been [b]freed from sin. 8 Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him, 9 knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, dies no more. Death no longer has dominion over Him. 10 For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God. 11 Likewise you also, [c]reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. 13 And do not present your members as [d]instruments of unrighteousness to sin, but present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. 14 For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace.
From Slaves of Sin to Slaves of God
15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not! 16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness? 17 But God be thanked that though you were slaves of sin, yet you obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine to which you were [e]delivered. 18 And having been set free from sin, you became slaves of righteousness. 19 I speak in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves of uncleanness, and of lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves of righteousness [f]for holiness.

20 For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness. 21 What fruit did you have then in the things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of those things is death. 22 But now having been set free from sin, and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit [g]to holiness, and the end, everlasting life. 23 For the wages of sin is death, but the [h]gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.


Romans 8:3-4
3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

Romans 10:4
4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

 

[BANDERSNATCH]

We are unable to keep anything . That is why Jesus when He went away said He would send the Helper. The Holy Spirit now dwells inside of the ones who have been born again. That is the only way that we keep His Commandments The Law was never given to save us, but to show us our inability to keep it. Which in turn drives us to Christ, for He is the end of the Law, and gives us His Grace. Yes we are to be repentant and killing our sin, but Christ has already imputed to us His Righteousness, and took upon Himself our sin when He was nailed to a cross!

Where does it say that God gave us His Law knowing that it was too hard to keep? In Deut 30 God says what He is asking "is not too difficult for you". And John says in I John 5:3 that we show God love by obeying His commandments, and THEY ARE NOT A BURDEN.

In Romans, which you mention in the other post, Paul says that that he loves the Law. (Romans 7) Jesus tells us to keep the commandments. All the way to the end of Acts, some 40 years after Jesus' ascension, all the believers are keeping the Law, and even Paul states late in life in Acts 21 that he is keeping the Law. Acts 21:24 (James talking to Paul) "and all may know that those things whereof they were informed concerning thee are nothing, but that thou thyself walkest orderly, AND KEEPEST THE LAW. 30-40 years after Jesus has ascended.

wanted to add that Christians today still accuse Paul of not keeping the Law...when obviously he did.

 

[Spineyman]

Romans 8:3-4
3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.


Galatians 3:10-14
The Law Brings a Curse
10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them.” 11 But that no one is [a]justified by the law in the sight of God is evident, for “the just shall live by faith.” 12 Yet the law is not of faith, but “the man who does them shall live by them.”

13 Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree”), 14 that the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

 

[BANDERSNATCH]

Romans 8:3-4
3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.


Galatians 3:10-14
The Law Brings a Curse
10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them.” 11 But that no one is [a]justified by the law in the sight of God is evident, for “the just shall live by faith.” 12 Yet the law is not of faith, but “the man who does them shall live by them.”

13 Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree”), 14 that the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

I agree with Romans 8, that righteousness does not come from keeping the Law. Romans 8 comes after 7 though, where Paul says he loves the Law. Blessing comes from obedience....not salvation....but blessings

Galatians says that Christ redeemed us from the curse OF FAILING, not from the blessing of obedience. Paul says that Christ became a curse so that we could get BLESSINGS. Not that the Law was a curse, but that there were curses associated with breaking the Law. Christ redeemed us from those curses, but not the blessings. BTW, there was no sacrifice in the OT for purposeful, willful sin. Paul says the same thing in Hebrews when he says that "if we sin willfully, there remains no sacrifice for sin".

Without the Law, we cannot define sin (I John 3:4)

Did Jesus ask us to obey the commandments?

 

[Artfuldodger]

I agree with Romans 8, that righteousness does not come from keeping the Law. Romans 8 comes after 7 though, where Paul says he loves the Law. Blessing comes from obedience....not salvation....but blessings

Galatians says that Christ redeemed us from the curse OF FAILING, not from the blessing of obedience. Paul says that Christ became a curse so that we could get BLESSINGS. Not that the Law was a curse, but that there were curses associated with breaking the Law. Christ redeemed us from those curses, but not the blessings. BTW, there was no sacrifice in the OT for purposeful, willful sin. Paul says the same thing in Hebrews when he says that "if we sin willfully, there remains no sacrifice for sin".

Without the Law, we cannot define sin (I John 3:4)

Did Jesus ask us to obey the commandments?

What is the difference between willfully sinning and?
Accidentally sinning?

 

[BANDERSNATCH]

What is the difference between willfully sinning and?
Accidentally sinning?

Well, i think we can all agree that since willful sin is mentioned in both OT and NT, that there must be willful sins and unwillful sins. An unwillful sin would be like what the Lord forgave His executioners for..."Forgive them, for they KNOW NOT WHAT THEY DO". Willful sin is premeditated, rebellious sin. Knowing that it's sin well in advance while planning it. There's lots of examples, but one in particular is in Numbers I believe where the guy was stoned for gathering firewood on the Sabbath. This guy knew the law concerning sabbath but chose to prepare a fire anyway. We all willfully sin, but I believe what is being referenced is planned, continual, rebellious sin, as our examples the Hebrews did when they left Egypt.

When it comes to the Law, we have our Lord keeping it perfectly (never ate unclean food or they would have used it against Him at His trial) and Paul keeping the Law. The last chapter of Acts represents somewhere around 60-65AD, and all the believers were keeping the commandments because that is what God has asked of us. I John (a good read) says that if "we abide in Him, (Jesus) we should WALK AS HE WALKED. He kept God's Feasts (they weren't the Jews' Feasts) He ate clean and He waked out the Law perfectly. Paul says to follow him, as he follows Christ. IMO, what we've been handed, and what is being preached from pulpits these days, has been stripped of its original Jewishness, beginning at 70AD. God said "do not add to, or take away from, the Law". Jews add to the Law, Gentiles take away from it. The Law should point Jews to our Messiah, and our Messiah points us to the Law. As prophesied in Deut 30, there was going to come a day when the scattered sheep would return to obeying Him from their heart. That time has come.

 

[Spineyman]

We indeed are to love God's law but we are not under the law. We do it now out of obedience, not sacrifice. Because He loved us, so we love Him. Like King David said " Oh how I love your law, it is my meditation all the day long". There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. For the Law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus, has set you free from the law of sin and death. The Law brings death, but Jesus came to give you life, and that more abundantly. So although we are not under Law, we are under Grace. The Grace supplied at Calvary. Jesus took care of the righteous fulfillment of the Law, and now gives us Grace, His Grace!
If you live by only the Law, you will surely die by the Law. But if you have the same Spirit in you that dwelled in Christ Jesus, He will quicken your mortal body!

 

[Artfuldodger]

We indeed are to love God's law but we are not under the law. We do it now out of obedience, not sacrifice. Because He loved us, so we love Him. Like King David said " Oh how I love your law, it is my meditation all the day long". There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. For the Law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus, has set you free from the law of sin and death. The Law brings death, but Jesus came to give you life, and that more abundantly. So although we are not under Law, we are under Grace. The Grace supplied at Calvary. Jesus took care of the righteous fulfillment of the Law, and now gives us Grace, His Grace!
If you live by only the Law, you will surely die by the Law. But if you have the same Spirit in you that dwelled in Christ Jesus, He will quicken your mortal body!

Do you see the Law keepers as getting something extra? Like a bigger reward than just eternal life?

 

[Spineyman]

In the first place there is no one who is able to perfectly keep the Law, nor was there ever a mere man to do so. It clearly states that if you live by the law you have to keep it all. If you fail in one small point you have failed in it all.

Galatians 3
Justification by Faith
3 O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you [a]that you should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed [b]among you as crucified? 2 This only I want to learn from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3 Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh? 4 Have you suffered so [c]many things in vain—if indeed it was in vain?

5 Therefore He who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you, does He do it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?— 6 just as Abraham “believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” 7 Therefore know that only those who are of faith are sons of Abraham. 8 And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel to Abraham beforehand, saying, “In you all the nations shall be blessed.” 9 So then those who are of faith are blessed with believing Abraham.
The Law Brings a Curse
10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them.” 11 But that no one is [d]justified by the law in the sight of God is evident, for “the just shall live by faith.” 12 Yet the law is not of faith, but “the man who does them shall live by them.”

13 Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree”), 14 that the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
The Changeless Promise
15 Brethren, I speak in the manner of men: Though it is only a man’s covenant, yet if it is confirmed, no one annuls or adds to it. 16 Now to Abraham and his Seed were the promises made. He does not say, “And to seeds,” as of many, but as of one, “And to your Seed,” who is Christ. 17 And this I say, that the law, which was four hundred and thirty years later, cannot annul the covenant that was confirmed before by God [e]in Christ, that it should make the promise of no effect. 18 For if the inheritance is of the law, it is no longer of promise; but God gave it to Abraham by promise.
Purpose of the Law
19 What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator. 20 Now a mediator does not mediate for one only, but God is one.

21 Is the law then against the promises of God? Certainly not! For if there had been a law given which could have given life, truly righteousness would have been by the law. 22 But the Scripture has confined all under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. 23 But before faith came, we were kept under guard by the law, [f]kept for the faith which would afterward be revealed. 24 Therefore the law was our [g]tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.
Sons and Heirs
26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

 

[Spineyman]

Philippians 3
All for Christ
3 Finally, my brethren, rejoice in the Lord. For me to write the same things to you is not tedious, but for you it is safe.

2 Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the mutilation! 3 For we are the circumcision, who worship [a]God in the Spirit, rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh, 4 though I also might have confidence in the flesh. If anyone else thinks he may have confidence in the flesh, I more so: 5 circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of the Hebrews; concerning the law, a Pharisee; 6 concerning zeal, persecuting the church; concerning the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.

7 But what things were gain to me, these I have counted loss for Christ. 8 Yet indeed I also count all things loss for the excellence of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them as rubbish, that I may gain Christ 9 and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness, which is from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith; 10 that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection, and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death, 11 if, by any means, I may attain[b] to the resurrection from the dead.
Pressing Toward the Goal
12 Not that I have already attained,[c] or am already perfected; but I press on, that I may lay hold of that for which Christ Jesus has also laid hold of me. 13 Brethren, I do not count myself to have [d]apprehended; but one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind and reaching forward to those things which are ahead, 14 I press toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus.

15 Therefore let us, as many as are mature, have this mind; and if in anything you think otherwise, God will reveal even this to you. 16 Nevertheless, to the degree that we have already [e]attained, let us walk by the same [f]rule, let us be of the same mind.
Our Citizenship in Heaven
17 Brethren, join in following my example, and note those who so walk, as you have us for a pattern. 18 For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ: 19 whose end is destruction, whose god is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame—who set their mind on earthly things. 20 For our citizenship is in heaven, from which we also eagerly wait for the Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ, 21 who will transform our lowly body that it may be conformed to His glorious body, according to the working by which He is able even to subdue all things to Himself.

 

[BANDERSNATCH]

We indeed are to love God's law but we are not under the law. We do it now out of obedience, not sacrifice. Because He loved us, so we love Him. Like King David said " Oh how I love your law, it is my meditation all the day long". There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. For the Law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus, has set you free from the law of sin and death. The Law brings death, but Jesus came to give you life, and that more abundantly. So although we are not under Law, we are under Grace. The Grace supplied at Calvary. Jesus took care of the righteous fulfillment of the Law, and now gives us Grace, His Grace!
If you live by only the Law, you will surely die by the Law. But if you have the same Spirit in you that dwelled in Christ Jesus, He will quicken your mortal body!

Amen! Dont live only by the Law, but receive salvation through faith, and show God you love Him by keeping His commandments! Don't be just a taker; give back to Him. It's our reasonable sacrifice.

Did Jesus ask us (you) to keep the commandments? I Peter 3:15-17

 

[Spineyman]

Amen! Dont live only by the Law, but receive salvation through faith, and show God you love Him by keeping His commandments! Don't be just a taker; give back to Him. It's our reasonable sacrifice.

Did Jesus ask us (you) to keep the commandments? I Peter 3:15-17

Just so you know I believe you are totally misreading me. I am not hyper grace at all. I believe that Jesus said if you love me you will keep my Commandment. But I also know we are not able on our own to keep His Commandment. It is Grace that steps in and covers for our failures. Like Romans says, shall we continue in sin that grace may abound. God forbid, may it never be! So I am saying that Jesus kept the Law perfectly and He has imputed to us His perfect Righteousness. So we look to Him in Faith to save us, not our keeping of the Law!

 

[Artfuldodger]

Year ago I asked the question of if we should keep God's commandments and was told it was the 2 New Testament ones.
Love God and love neighbor.

Was also told the New Way or Gospel replaced commandment keeping. That when Jesus says "do the will of my Father" he meant the Gospel. That God was saying "follow Jesus" as doing His will.

Again it just seems like an enigma. We could never quit sinning so we needed someone who could. We need the Spirit in our spirit. Some have even told me the Fruit of the Spirit is the "proof" that your salvation "took."

Wouldn't you think that if God gave you salvation it would "take?" I mean it's not like God is just trying to do His part.