The worst lies of religion

Thread starter #1
Probably not what you think ...

Here’s how religion and religionists play upon your feelings and weaknesses, and suggest a different way, an anti-Christ way for you to live. Give a few minutes to this message, because knowing the truth is your way to avoid the lies—and to help others do the same.


To read the message, click http://ralphharris.org/the-worst-lies-of-religion-6/

I hope this encourages you today.
(To subscribe click the Encourage Me tab at ralphharris.org.)
 

gordon 2

Senior Member
So is the video an example of the lies? Or an bona fide view of the truth on the perceived or listed lies? The speakers negative list on religion, are they the whole truth about religion? Can religious people live in the hear and now with God or are some Sunday people not someday people, but rather in the presence now people? If yes then in this case the video's view is just a bromide or a statement of a popular doctrine on salvation? Religion is it's clever foil in order to restate it? Or is what I'm saying just a lie that someone else's truth might think good to purge?

I'm trying to test the spirits in the message or anti-message depending what it is ... and ... they are keeping their distances. ???


Am I to take as serious the stated view of the religious and religion in the vid?
 
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Israel

Senior Member
So is the video an example of the lies? Or an bona fide view of the truth on the perceived or listed lies? The speakers negative list on religion, are they the whole truth about religion? Can religious people live in the hear and now with God or are some Sunday people not someday people, but rather in the presence now people? If yes then in this case the video's view is just a bromide or a statement of a popular doctrine on salvation? Religion is it's clever foil in order to restate it? Or is what I'm saying just a lie that someone else's truth might think good to purge?

I'm trying to test the spirits in the message or anti-message depending what it is ... and ... they are keeping their distances. ???


Am I to take as serious the stated view of the religious and religion in the vid?
It appears the writer/speaker was careful to say religion and not "the religious", which I took as a care to address a form of thought and seeing of the gospel (and in that our relationship to the Lord) which speaks to the mind.

I could appreciate, if his intent is as I imagine and hope, to not denigrate any in particular, or discourage any in particular, that if finding themselves all too familiar with this form of thinking...to be reminded the appearance of Jesus Christ has made the believer acceptable now in His sight.

But, like you perhaps, in seeing this brother's work and words rather infrequently, that testing becomes a test in itself. And again, perhaps like you, I am not unfamiliar with the practice of either tilting at windmills, or the peculiar inclination toward the setting up of constructs for an exhibition of our own imagined ability of fitness to their leveling.

The question then is...(if we accept any proposition that religious thinking may be a snare, or cloud sight) is it significant enough to qualify as more than mere windmill, and secondly, if so, are we (any?) called to its engagement rightly equipped?

You may know my own proposition as I have received, which I understand in the re-stating must now again leave it naked to examination. In short, all men are of, and in, an experience of Adam. And, no less than so. The which Adam is, of course, of necessity to discerning.

If I am presumptuous in the taking of Paul's words to a seconding of this matter, then rightly I am judged presumptuous:

For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.

Did Paul understand, see, have revealed this knowing...of having once been alive and free, and then knowing in that experience of being given commandment that a thing took occasion by this, sprang to life, thence to his own death?

We know Paul as careful as saying the commandment is not itself sin. Something takes occasion in it, and by it, to make itself known. Whose experience...is this not? And, perhaps more particularly, who is most easily identified as having known this...first?

I will not belabor what may appear to some as analogous, but for me is identity...how that "man" (all men, any man) is then assigned the wending of way through all that may appear to a seemingly hopeful manner of restoration. Even religion and practice, the giving of an abundance of commandments (yes, by God) in hope of vanity and frustration manifestly displayed to their unfitness to either remove what is at root, or restore what so desperately (in light of such frustration) longs for restoration.

I think we are all in part familiar with such reviling as God has borne in this. This "way" of His doing continually comes under judgment of man. "Why have you made me thus?" But we also begin to see, as those in Christ, the end of God's way, even in such, that what is prepared for the revealing, the fullness of Jesus Christ (as end), so far exceeds our former knowing and deprecation of our former knowing of "way" to so eclipse all in glory as we now delight in all of the plan. In short, whatever God has deemed necessary to the seeing of His Christ...is worth more than all.

I am convinced that no one reading...who has gone this far in bearing, needs me or my words to the telling. You all know this. To see how, in Christ, God has even borne sin (of which was to us a former bondage and means of communication from below) and removed it from what was formerly only fit to have it laid to account is beyond my ability. We may think it is we who have "borne with sin" and its outcomes being unrightly (as God is accused) bound to it...until we see Jesus Christ. Then we see who has "borne" sin and its demand. And all of its demand upon man...met. And not only met, but of such surfeit of satisfaction of debt to overflowing now, in benefit.

To us it is always a "new thing", this newness of life that testifies of Him who is from the beginning. What may remain of "old thinking" is what becomes of question for its right address. Do any suffer under it? I would be a liar to not say I have not hacked away in the religious jungle. Was this of necessity, as part and parcel of my assignment to seeing God's Christ? If it were of my assignment (only) I dare not despise it for its necessity. I am what I am, by the grace of God. God forbid I despise his forming...even of me...though I can testify readily of such hatred in frustration once, at my own self.

This brother then who speaks in and for the "now" is not useless to one such as myself. He is healthy reminder...for I find that what may be submitted to as mere tendrils in mind, seemingly so negligible in form of apparent frailty, nevertheless may grow to such binding vines as nourished from beneath until again a swelling and sore rootedness require a stricter tending. If I am only one who benefits from his learning in the tending of his garden, I dare not lie before God of his usefulness to me.

If another (and I cannot deny their being) find him of no use, or question his utility to themselves or his motive, I also understand. Even Paul said "If I be not an apostle to others..." never laying claim of any utility to all for all things, even in plainly stating:

Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.

It seems of all, contradictory. Pursuit of what one already has. If this brother is poor in understanding, or is suspected of such possibility as to be in need of testing of such, perhaps he may concede he is as much in need of reminder as any other.
Re-minding by the Spirit is a good thing, and I do not find any of your questions "out of place". But I am persuaded if you have a need to know "of him" and motive...I trust he is accessible. If he has made himself not so...well, that would also speak.

He may find great benefit in the testing.
 
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gordon 2

Senior Member
Thank you for your perspectives. I'm drawn by the notion of having " hacked away in the religious jungle".

Excuse my curiousness or my total ignorance, but what shape, especially in Evangelical Christianity, can this "hacking away" take? Is there a false walk in Evangelical Christianity that I am not aware of, or is there an individual "religion" walk within the fencing which is obvious as negative from within?

Or is it sin in me simply to understand that the editorial is about: Works and Salvation ( a sort of Old Testament perspective of faith), as opposed to Faith Proceeding from Salvation?

Or, are heavenly relationships, that is relationships who's foundation are in the heavenly, devoid of the need of works? Does God work-- even today? Are all His works done? In communion are all our works done ( God's and ours) -- including the works of relationship from a pilgrim's very first thought of a step to those who have leveled many mountains...?

When a man speaks against all the" somedays" in the parlance of Christianity, and that I find these are expressions mostly of hope, am I guilty of works to test spirits: Justice, goodwill and love in Christ?

Again in Evangelical Christianity is there occasion that one can be "hacking away" to their peril-- as in seeking towards a salvation as if Christ had not come to fulfill the hopes of an old faith ( old man's faith) in Him?

Is it easy perhaps to live by the hopes of those who wrote in the Old Testament as opposed to newer hopes of those who wrote in the New? Is that what he's talking about? Or is it something else?

There was a time in my life when I attended a non-denominational church mostly with pastors of baptist-methodist-pentacostal heritage. This was a few decades ago. I often heard back then the term "religious spirits" as being negative. What I understood back then was that first off, the preachers(non denominational pastors) were not satisfied with the wholesomeness of their parent congregations (denominations) and were dissenting and secondly some in the pews of the new ministry could simply be as goats in sheep's clothing, an affliction they had carried away from the former places of worship and being outwardly ship shape but could really inwardly be rust buckets and possible pollution to the newer enterprises of the Non-denominational movement. Also by standard convention in the culture Catholics were work beavers in general and great caution should be given to them having ministry within the movement...especially those who worshiped in the old church.


Am I missing something?
 
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Israel

Senior Member
Thank you for your perspectives. I'm drawn by the notion of having " hacked away in the religious jungle".

Excuse my curiousness or my total ignorance, but what shape, especially in Evangelical Christianity, can this "hacking away" take? Is there a false walk in Evangelical Christianity that I am not aware of, or is there an individual "religion" walk within the fencing which is obvious as negative from within?

Or is it sin in me simply to understand that the editorial is about: Works and Salvation ( a sort of Old Testament perspective of faith), as opposed to Faith Proceeding from Salvation?

Or, are heavenly relationships, that is relationships who's foundation are in the heavenly, devoid of the need of works? Does God work-- even today? Are all His works done? In communion are all our works done ( God's and ours) -- including the works of relationship from a pilgrim's very first thought of a step to those who have leveled many mountains...?

When a man speaks against all the" somedays" in the parlance of Christianity, and that I find these are expressions mostly of hope, am I guilty of works to test spirits: Justice, goodwill and love in Christ?

Again in Evangelical Christianity is there occasion that one can be "hacking away" to their peril-- as in seeking towards a salvation as if Christ had not come to fulfill the hopes of an old faith ( old man's faith) in Him?

Is it easy perhaps to live by the hopes of those who wrote in the Old Testament as opposed to newer hopes of those who wrote in the New? Is that what he's talking about? Or is it something else?

There was a time in my life when I attended a non-denominational church mostly with pastors of baptist-methodist-pentacostal heritage. This was a few decades ago. I often heard back then the term "religious spirits" as being negative. What I understood back then was that first off, the preachers(non denominational pastors) were not satisfied with the wholesomeness of their parent congregations (denominations) and were dissenting and secondly some in the pews of the new ministry could simply be as goats in sheep's clothing, an affliction they had carried away from the former places of worship and being outwardly ship shape but could really inwardly be rust buckets and possible pollution to the newer enterprises of the Non-denominational movement. Also by standard convention in the culture Catholics were work beavers in general and great caution should be given to them having ministry within the movement...especially those who worshiped in the old church.


Am I missing something?
I don't expect, nor have any hope of, the evangelicals (whoever and however they may identify themselves) being willing to own me; along with whatever may identify itself as "non-denominational". (I never saw how to wear that label apart from a provoking of pride, a thing that I have never found to need much, if any, provoking in me at all.) I wouldn't want them to be saddled (in anyone's mind) with my experience in broadly brushed application. Nor would I want you to think in any terms other than that which I believe I was careful to mention, and that being if need be, exclusively (is that pride?) my experience.

Whether one wants to frame it as the age old "law/grace" "works/faith" or even its more recent iteration of religion/relationship, they're probably suited to some adequate description. But also, perhaps in a no less, and more fundamental seeing, it could also be reduced to flesh/spirit, old man/new man.

And I well understand such as described as "hacking away in the religious jungle" easily lends itself (by description) as a work of mine...or my own labors, as though through much effort (or sufficient amount) I could work/have worked my way through to a clearing in which Christ is plainly, or made more plainly visible, to me.

No less do I understand, if that indeed be the case (the results of my own work) such a man is liable to the accusation, or fitting such evaluation amongst other disciples as one who never truly believed, even demonstrated in the "now" as one who is taking their stand on their own work to see Jesus Christ. That I am easily now made able to wear that accusation/evaluation is an easy and restful place. But I also know that such ease and rest (if even evaluated as no more than an unbeliever by those in whose presence I once strove to appear otherwise) means nothing. As I have said elsewhere I am all at a loss of myself to discern of myself between complacency and contentment. What is rest, and what may be an unGodly surrendering. I always need showing.

As I am seeking to understand your response it appears to me you seem somewhat surprised. It is as if I am hearing a man saying, "What? Can it be that (what appears to me) as eagerly describing itself as the "non" religious, non orthodox (non Catholic?) and declares itself as of such liberty in "evangelicalsim" or "non-denominationalism" also contends with the same matters of which the orthodox are so frequently accused? What takes its stand on "no works" and all of faith...has no less in itself a working out of such?"

But as said, I don't draw that dichotomy...being neither able to find myself "evangelical" nor "non-denominational", as opposed to let's say...Roman Catholic. (Would Anglican no less "fit the bill"? Methodist? Lutheran? Are any...or all fitting of the "orthodoxy" box?...LOL.... even "non denominational?") Isn't that in part the question/stating you proposed here?

What I understood back then was that first off, the preachers(non denominational pastors) were not satisfied with the wholesomeness of their parent congregations (denominations) and were dissenting and secondly some in the pews of the new ministry could simply be as goats in sheep's clothing, an affliction they had carried away from the former places of worship and being outwardly ship shape but could really inwardly be rust buckets and possible pollution to the newer enterprises of the Non-denominational movement.
That some might not be found "non-denominational" enough? To qualify fittingly as being "non-denominational?" Oy.

But I would also seek to be no less careful with you, than I would ask for myself. I don't care to address the "Catholic Gordon" anymore than I can accept (if more for their sakes?) being the "evangelical/non denominational Israel". (I know of only One who can bear being saddled [so to speak] with me)



Others may indeed have the experience or had the experience of all the liberty of Christ revealed at once, fully, completely, abundantly, in an immediacy I have already confessed as not being my own. I may be the man who in all is playing "catch up"...or even (am I too at ease in this?) already disqualified from the race.

Does my confession of finding things in mind yet restricting, things of habit, and of "old knowing/thinking" and my resort to what in experience was a necessary hacking...really imply, I have never known the Christ of God, at all? I am seeing a being made able to submit to this from anyone: "then you have never known Jesus, at all"...or gone once so far off the rails as to appear nothing more than a heathen and publican, now.

Strangely I don't care. Is it too much a boldness, too much a scandal, too much ir-receivable by any or all naming the name of Christ to say so? Is it just provocational to be even more scandalous to say, or hold this form of testimony, that I might even peep...Jesus taught me so? Of all mouths, does mine deserve the most slapping out of it of that Holy name...and testimony..."Jesus Christ is Lord?" Ain't it funny, and to the extreme might it be even joyous, that I don't care?

Perhaps like your
"am I missing something?"
I cannot be anything other than, nor anywhere other than, where I am and what I am.

What has the authority over me to say "this persuasion does not come from Him who has called you" I would be fool to say "OK, I grant you that authority"...wouldn't I?
Me "granting" authority to anything, or anyone is such a joke now (is it a Heavenly...joke?) that again, to the extreme I find joy and laughter there. If my ridiculousness disclosed is only my own, I am finding a laughter in bearing it.

That I now find "going to scripture" is in so many ways no less than "going to war", and though I find a warring not only needful, but already declared, it's more often a "better thing" that I keep it within my tent...not only for others...but truly, for me, in particular. Such bloody hacking does indeed take place there. And it matters not to me if any believe this...or even find it a necessary thing to any man. I am persuaded my tent is already burning, and there is no hope of concealing what has gone on, is going on, inside. This also makes me laugh. That such could ever be concealed.

You see "that persuasion" that odd and now strange persuasion, that anything was "hide-able" that I was of such cleverness (talk about WORK!) to engage that flaming sword with deals, quid pro quos, a lawful relationship "I'll do this and you do that" (or more particularly "not do that...to me"), "I'll seek to appear this way if you will appear to me that way"...in short that the master of commerce with eyes shaded by accountant's visor would not be found out. How he bore a head wound, yet I found him still able to speak...speaks only of my need of a better salvation than I could ever assure myself.

But...no one else need agree nor see as I have.

I am happy for all who "already have all, and are full"

Jesus Christ is Lord.

And I thank God for the liberty you enjoy to pray for me.
 
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Israel

Senior Member
Addendum:

There's an odd reversal that took place somewhere along the line...I once thought my necessity of speaking "for him" was all and everything to which I could possibly find calling. Miraculously (O! so miraculously!) I discovered the truest need of all: knowing and hearing of His speaking on my behalf!
Talk about where true necessity lie!

Might it be a help to the "evangelicals" (if any so identify themselves) to learn such? God knows I don't know nor can speak for them. But I can testify and will, and do, that for me it is the far greater need...hearing Him...

And if any other may find their speaking getting in the way...maybe we can help each others?
 

gordon 2

Senior Member
Yes... no doubt. Many moons ago was it not YOU who was all about Jesus vs all else, doctrine, religion and the worlds? Say ten yrs ago or so.

I must confess that I though then that your Jesus was a strange fender to plow into the world because I was all about taking Jesus home and myself away from the world. We are so different.

I test the spirits from the Kingdom I suppose ( I have often been about that) and seek those who in Christ have found their home vs doctrine, religion and the worlds.


The Knowledge that we are dead on the Cross with Christ is no substitute of the Experience of being alive in Christ resurrected perhaps. The first is yet a focus on the old man, and the the second on the new. Perhaps. The corrupted flesh does not cling in the new if it is to an experience of a resurrected God or to the Holy Spirit we cleave.

Scripture being profitable as to my worries I will offer this in prayer. And my worries on works is that a poor son of Adam might in the name of Christ see another in Adam simply as richer than him-- and no Christ at home, no resurrected Christ at all is measured within.



The Capture and The Captives.

To a claim that a King was he,
Once a man climbed a tree,
And was made to come down,
So he could see.

Not to talk above the crowd,
But a host he could be
Not to the lost a caution sound,
But to Christ turned he,
And so to works Christ turned me.


Luke 19:1-10
Zacchaeus the Tax Collector
19 Jesus entered Jericho and was passing through. 2 A man was there by the name of Zacchaeus; he was a chief tax collector and was wealthy. 3 He wanted to see who Jesus was, but because he was short he could not see over the crowd. 4 So he ran ahead and climbed a sycamore-fig tree to see him, since Jesus was coming that way.

5 When Jesus reached the spot, he looked up and said to him, “Zacchaeus, come down immediately. I must stay at your house today.”6 So he came down at once and welcomed him gladly.

7 All the people saw this and began to mutter, “He has gone to be the guest of a sinner.”

8 But Zacchaeus stood up and said to the Lord, “Look, Lord! Here and now I give half of my possessions to the poor, and if I have cheated anybody out of anything, I will pay back four times the amount.”

9 Jesus said to him, “Today salvation has come to this house, because this man, too, is a son of Abraham. 10 For the Son of Man came to seek and to save the lost.”
 
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Thread starter #8
Thank you both for your dialog here. Im happy to have been away for a time, so that I've returned for the refreshment and encouragement in the Lord.

I especially affirm the crucifixion as touching and killing an old Adamic self, and more affirm life afterwards from a resurrection. Thanks Gordon for bringing this out in what can be a tough discussion on such a word as religion. Is this word synonymous with life? In the context of the cross and resurrection I don't think so.

I, nor the author of the original article, meant not an ounce of offense. (I will be meeting with Mr. Harris in a future conference, and as I have had some communication with him on FB, my enjoyment and delight in seeing Christ in you, and you, and in whom the cross and Jesus' victory speak, has grown immensely. )
Thanks for sharing your hearts, beloved.
Outrageously Graced,
- Your brother Walter
 

Israel

Senior Member
Always bearing about in the body the dying of the Lord Jesus that the life also of the Lord Jesus might be manifest.

I especially affirm the crucifixion as touching and killing an old Adamic self, and more affirm life afterwards from a resurrection. Thanks Gordon for bringing this out in what can be a tough discussion on such a word as religion. Is this word synonymous with life? In the context of the cross and resurrection I don't think so.

Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour: Whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world.

What is the testing of the spirit? What is the truth we may believe we seek, and hope might be found in this "testing"? Do we "do it"...to one another...do we engage with one another to such a point as necessity a "tool" is pulled (provoked by some unknowing, some un-surety of motive) and there dip some sort of litmus strip to determine a thing?

I don't know.

Is it something...other? How do we "taste" one another? Do we discern one another... by a something in which we are all being discerned? Is it a blunt thing? A fine thing?

How does this take place?

The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

And might that not be the most wrongheaded question of all to ever ask..."How?"

As if one were given the most precious and exquisite gift of all...and there assayed to "take it apart to see how it works". And this...in plain sight of the giver of witness? In sight of the true and faithful witness?

And this besides the obvious folly of thinking any tool is available to the dismantling of that which, of all things, is most fundamental.

God knows.

May I be found fit for rebuke if rebuke is needed in this.

I am of no use to myself, and have nothing besides to offer (if anything at all) than what I have found, and am finding as what is now more precious and overwhelmingly sufficient, though once so easily assumed in a familiarity that was always tempted to a contempt. I can offer no more than I have been made able to receive.

I think some of my brothers will understand, whether in the body or apart from the body I do not know, but God knows-

I am with you in all this pressing craziness as the world would make itself to appear.
This I hear. And am made happy.

Therefore I am not sure if there is any implication in this:

Many moons ago was it not YOU who was all about Jesus vs all else, doctrine, religion and the worlds? Say ten yrs ago or so.
That I have relented as to the utter singularity and necessity of Jesus Christ to, for, and in all things (especially made to be seen as conqueror as a child of God wends his way through this world) than ever I held.

To myself it appears even more so true. One far ahead may say "brother, you remain yet too concerned with the things of the world from which we are delivered", and rightly so. Such reproval and rebuke has never come without great benefit to a proper redirection of affections and attentions. To deny that necessity I now see as nothing less than denying the Lord, Himself.

So for now if all my testimony must include some worldly reference, (and there reproof is seen as necessary) in particular reminder (to any who may hear, or need to) that the Lord has overcome the world and that such is continuing source of good cheer, I trust through Christ I am being made able to bear it.
 
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gordon 2

Senior Member
I'm puzzled. And the puzzle is in pieces due my religion? Or finished on the day God gave me to his son?

Peter after Pentecost is all of a finished puzzle. ( He will never go to pieces. And even when Paul rebukes him of his "looseness" he is all integrity?)

Paul's worry about a sore side is nothing really? His cautions to Timothy that the truth has its deposit in the church was really superfluous?

So am I to understand that because of these issues listed above, Peter and Paul were basically religiously motivated... and today someone knows better and declares that a boast in God, is my only work and the rest will take care of itself....?


I dislike fencing with scripture... but faith by hearing ( listening) is a one time thing? Maybe listening to spirits is good training to test them? Or it is really all useless...?

Why would the Holy Spirit be called a teacher? Why would some be compelled to talk or teach for Him that religion is suspect, when religion has as suspect the un-checked, the lone rangers much unlike some like Peter and Paul?


Striper if you find it appropriate ask the good brother if he has a specific audience due to experience and not so much in mind?
 
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Thread starter #11
If you define your religion as your faith, then I'd say don't read into this more than it is.

But there is a linguistic definition to the word, where re as in return to, and legion as in bondage.

Better though, if our works are born out of trust and dependence on the Lord, then the fruit of abiding (living) in Christ becomes more pronounced.

Hope that makes some sense.

Gents, thank you. As always and when I have the time, I love the sharpening!
 
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Israel

Senior Member
I'm puzzled. And the puzzle is in pieces due my religion? Or finished on the day God gave me to his son?

Peter after Pentecost is all of a finished puzzle. ( He will never go to pieces. And even when Paul rebukes him of his "looseness" he is all integrity?)

Paul's worry about a sore side is nothing really? His cautions to Timothy that the truth has its deposit in the church was really superfluous?

So am I to understand that because of these issues listed above, Peter and Paul were basically religiously motivated... and today someone knows better and declares that a boast in God, is my only work and the rest will take care of itself....?


I dislike fencing with scripture... but faith by hearing is a one time thing?
I don't know if I assay your questions correctly at all, so rather than press a point which may not even be present (the fencing wording is well considered) I'd rather relent from such also, preferring to find we may not have anything at odds at all.

I'm persuaded (as I believe you are, no less...and perhaps more) that we receive a certain caution in regards to being casual about hope and or hopes. And I would hope that if there be an issue or contention in regards to Ralph's short essay/vid that he would be better suited to explanation. Maybe even an invite to him to view this thread would help not only him, but ourselves in the service of understanding.

I am not unaware that agreements and "likes" in whatever from then also place "hearers" in the position of apparent need of defense of their reception and/or seeming endorsements. Or defense of position if found in disagreement.

So, I plan on seeking to make contact with him to that end.

I can't help but be up for examination, not trying to dodge it or deny its necessity to me...but again, I do not know without further clarity whether there is any issue between us that is not already resolved in Jesus Christ. But, if further "working out" inclusive of my own being shown I am the most wrongheaded in it...well, it's futile for me to think (in both testimony of the scriptures and also made real through experience) that all or anything of my building is not up for the burning and testing by fire.

Gunna go visit Ralph's web site and contacts.

PS...done.
 
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gordon 2

Senior Member
I've tried to communicate with him via his web site, but I can't find an easy way to just jot down a question to get an answer in writing. I'd like to know which "religion" community observes rules to Godliness in Christianity?


"exchange fear and obligation for delight and devotion"

I found this as an indication as to what his book God's Astounding Opinion of You might be about.

So I guess my question could be: Where is this "fear and obligation"found in the day to day walk reality of Christians today? How did you Mr. Harris fall on this?
 
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Israel

Senior Member
I haven't heard a thing yet. I referred him to the thread with link. He'd be free to comment or explain...or just confirm back to me with e-mail he'd reviewed it.
There are obviously many issues with which to contend when a ministry grows beyond a few folks. I hope he views this as no less than an opportunity to speak to a "small group" as the views alone of this thread are in the hundreds (which I take to mean more than the participants have reviewed it).

I could imagine he remains rather busy answering questions and preparing his messages.
 

formula1

Daily Bible Verse Organizer
Religion says you've got to strive and fight and crawl and drag yourself across the finish line and just barely survive the race by your striving! Yet Christ has given you power to thrive! His yoke is easy, His burden light!

We are made to point the world to Jesus. Everything you are is rooted in this if you are His. He has given everything to you to make you everything in Him. So be the light He asked you to be! Love with His love and you will fulfill His purpose!
 

gordon 2

Senior Member
Religion says you've got to strive and fight and crawl and drag yourself across the finish line and just barely survive the race by your striving! Yet Christ has given you power to thrive! His yoke is easy, His burden light!

We are made to point the world to Jesus. Everything you are is rooted in this if you are His. He has given everything to you to make you everything in Him. So be the light He asked you to be! Love with His love and you will fulfill His purpose!

1. Can you give an example of Religion saying you have to strive as in fear and obligation vs devotion?

2. Are we all made to point the world to Jesus as individuals? Or are members of the church or the church itself, made to point the world to Jesus?
 

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Daily Bible Verse Organizer
1. Can you give an example of Religion saying you have to strive as in fear and obligation vs devotion?

2. Are we all made to point the world to Jesus as individuals? Or are members of the church or the church itself, made to point the world to Jesus?
1) You must follow a particular set of rules, traditions or habits. I could give a laundry list but you can get the obligations that men try to add to Grace. If it's more than Grace, it's not Grace at all. The true understanding of the Grace we receive in Christ should lead us to joy, servanthood, as as you said devotion. I wonder why so many want to establish grace+???

2) Both! But God imparts different gifts according to His purpose!
 
Religion says you've got to strive and fight and crawl and drag yourself across the finish line and just barely survive the race by your striving! Yet Christ has given you power to thrive! His yoke is easy, His burden light!

We are made to point the world to Jesus. Everything you are is rooted in this if you are His. He has given everything to you to make you everything in Him. So be the light He asked you to be! Love with His love and you will fulfill His purpose!
I'm beginning to think religion is like the Pharisees and Sadducee. Perhaps religion tells us one thing and Christ tells us something else.
 
Religion says you've got to strive and fight and crawl and drag yourself across the finish line and just barely survive the race by your striving! Yet Christ has given you power to thrive! His yoke is easy, His burden light!

We are made to point the world to Jesus. Everything you are is rooted in this if you are His. He has given everything to you to make you everything in Him. So be the light He asked you to be! Love with His love and you will fulfill His purpose!
Do you think God is still angry or is he now more compassionate? Maybe since the Cross.

Psalms 103:8-9 --- God is compassionate, will not always accuse and will not be angry forever.
 

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Art,

Remember what Jesus said about the Pharisees and Sadducees, Blind guides leading the blind, brood of voters, etc.

God has always been compassionate! God is love after all. But some things written don't look like compassion from a modern human eye!
 
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