The worst lies of religion

Thread starter #21
God has always been compassionate! God is love after all. But some things written don't look like compassion from a modern human eye!
Amen. Keep in mind the teaching of Christ before the cross often elevated the severity of the law ... so that which saves would be contrasted against it and shown so much more glorious!

"The law made nothing perfect,
but the bringing in of a better hope did,
by which we draw near to God."

Religion, the old covenant, demands the perfection that only Jesus living within us can bring. The OC was quid-pro-quo: You do your part and God will do His. And remember the Israelites who responded to Moses, "everything God says in the book of the law we will DO!" well, they couldn't, no one can (that's the point BTW)
So, shortly after their vow the biggest Promise Keeper convention was washed away in a sea of self-sufficiency, not trust, and all human effort to appease their God came to a screeching halt.
But the New Covenant is the agreement between God and God, because He could swear by no one greater, He swore by Himself ... in order for us who believe in simple faith and trust IN Christ, to become the righteousness of God in Christ.
He became sin so that we would become righteous - His life and ours, crucified, buried and raised to the New.

Worth rejoicing, no? Certainly worth sharing. :)
 

Israel

Senior Member
Amen. Keep in mind the teaching of Christ before the cross often elevated the severity of the law ... so that which saves would be contrasted against it and shown so much more glorious!

"The law made nothing perfect,
but the bringing in of a better hope did,
by which we draw near to God."

Religion, the old covenant, demands the perfection that only Jesus living within us can bring. The OC was quid-pro-quo: You do your part and God will do His. And remember the Israelites who responded to Moses, "everything God says in the book of the law we will DO!" well, they couldn't, no one can (that's the point BTW)
So, shortly after their vow the biggest Promise Keeper convention was washed away in a sea of self-sufficiency, not trust, and all human effort to appease their God came to a screeching halt.
But the New Covenant is the agreement between God and God, because He could swear by no one greater, He swore by Himself ... in order for us who believe in simple faith and trust IN Christ, to become the righteousness of God in Christ.
He became sin so that we would become righteous - His life and ours, crucified, buried and raised to the New.

Worth rejoicing, no? Certainly worth sharing. :)
Yes, Jesus was careful to even make the point that previous understanding of the Law was all askew.
The one who wanted to take his stand on never having murdered nor committed adultery is told "hey...just because you didn't plunge a sword into your brother with your hand, or "do the nasty" with your neighbor's wife, the mere desire that is seen as that lust and that killing (hatred of your brother in the heart)...is precisely the same. Yeah...like you said...severity...and well beyond what was even understood.


Who's gonna escape that of themselves? Who, that previously may have thought them self "safe" is now not tasting some dread?

But here is an odd thing. One will only "taste that dread"...if they believe Jesus Christ. For if one does not believe Jesus Christ, his saying of those things would mean nothing...and still yet then trust in the "outward" obeying.

Ain't it something the way of the Spirit? I marvel.

Yes...Jesus can cause us to fear...and then deliver.
 
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Thread starter #24
One final thought I got from IGGY (Instagram lol):

Religion: "I messed up, dad is gonna kill me!"

Gospel: "I messed up. Better go talk to dad!"
 
One final thought I got from IGGY (Instagram lol):

Religion: "I messed up, dad is gonna kill me!"

Gospel: "I messed up. Better go talk to dad!"
Religion: "I messed up, dad is gonna kill me!" "Dad says just do better next time"

Gospel: "I messed up. Better go talk to dad!" "Dad says, you knew better but did it anyway. Go and do better but there will be consequences to pay for your actions.


Short and simple, be a Christian not religious. Be Christ like not self righteous.
 
I cannot, and will not, deny that personally I need it continuously settled to me that I am both loved, and forgiven. Whether this makes me appear as only the most fresh faced babe in Christ...or worse, hypocrite...is of little matter...God knows all my necessity and how much demand I place upon His appearing through Christ as such, to me. I absolutely need to see the favor of God. I cannot...live without it.

That I am at times made aware of my participation in things I find as "not in God's favor" I also cannot deny. But it is most usual here that I find a thing previously so hidden. For there seems a knee jerk response to "get out from under this sense of displeasure" (for at that moment it seems all that is exquisitely unbearable) that I furiously search my inventory to see what I might have to offer for exculpation. It's both the knee jerk to escape...and the "my inventory" that is being revealed as "the trick"...the sleight of hand being worked upon me.

As long as it has taken the Lord in all patience to make clear...that it is a demonstration of favor to even make known to me there are things of "disfavor" and that I might be found in such...is itself alone the work of God. Simply, I couldn't even know I am "off base" unless told. This is no less, grace.

So, what then of this "knee jerk" that would prompt me to a my doing of something from my inventory? As I have said, and cannot relent...I need to know I am loved.
Again...God's patience. For if it is truly God...now "laying upon me" this need to "do something" to recapture his love, or favor, (as though it were ever of my doing)...how at odds this puts me both with scripture...and no less...with my plainest experience of Jesus Christ. Therefore is found a great discrepancy if imagining it is God "laying" such upon me. Nevertheless...a "something wants to". Something is working and willing to bring despite to grace. And this something is able to bring great pressure. We are told to not be "ignorant of his schemes".

If ever I imagine that contingency I would place upon the Lord is real, and a true thing...thanks be to God for rebuke! Thanks be to God for chastening! Thanks be to God for complete and utter rebuff! Something wants very much for me to hold this view "God loves me, because..." and there find something I have either done, or must find to do.

Can a man be a forgetful hearer of this?

But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

Or this?

For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

If I must be displayed as the most retarded of all believers (and I mean no disrespect as that word's usage would now, in these days, be relegated to by use) so be it! If I am displayed as the slowest, most dense, most recalcitrant of all...so be it! I care not in respect to the joy of finding. If my assignment in all has been to be the very "last or latest to the party", the last one barely stumbling in...Hallelujah! The directions to the party (this feast) are true! The way...is correct, and right above all...Jesus Christ! Regardless of how I may have seen. Or understood. Or...may even yet...presently see.

And if in any decrying of religion...I am made to be shown as being the very most of religious...that is under some compulsion, binding...to even decry it...Hallelujah!

There is nothing of myself initia-able. I need to be shown...everything that is anything.
I have no capacity to be responsible. But I do see a giving to me that encourages a response-ability. Things I know that of myself I could never see.

Occupy till I come.

I couldn't escape it! Who...can?

Even if all my occupying were in sin, and fear, and doubt, and planting harvests in dead and worthless soil. I thought once I could and should try to make of myself...good soil! Or at least "better soil" (or worse, simply assumed..."that must be me!") Ha! and again Ha!

Our brother Paul said "I am what I am by the grace of God"

The dirt I am, I am.

But seeing God's grace in it, toward it, for it, His patient care and tending of it, and such as so long before any grace was seen to be found to even consider one's self as such, is working! Dirt made...and given ability...to respond.

Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord. Behold, the husbandman waiteth for the precious fruit of the earth, and hath long patience for it, until he receive the early and latter rain.

I don't even know how to be patient! But the command comes, and with it, as with all of His commands that are to eternal life...comes a Someone to both watch, and watch for.


Yes...there's a patience worth watching and beholding...in that One.

Ain't it at least a little bit funny that God, who knows very well how we view things, would also know our first taking of man being made of the "dust of the earth" might, and would, incline us to think in terms of a commonness that borders almost on insult? A relegation...to insignificance?

But, somehow, and somewhere along the way...it is gotten "over to us"...that not even one smallest speck of dust, one seemingly and totally insignificant thing of such "commonness to us" is no less upheld...atom to atom, molecule to molecule by the word of His power. The "miracle of dust" is, no less, the miracle of anything else of His creation.

And I am persuaded it is only because of His willing appearance to us in that, and of that, container of dust, through Jesus Christ's being made in like fashion as a man, that we see anything...and that is everything to be seen.

Praise God for the pit from which we have been raised!
 
Thread starter #27
Yes, Yes! There is One coming with the commands, yet graciously taking their place, filling those all too perfect stone declarations with His life ... a substitution, a very living remedy to any vain attempt of mine to cling to stone and not His heart.
In dependence and desperation I cling. The hem of His garment is wide enough for all.
Thanks be to God for His transforming gift!
 
Yes, Yes! There is One coming with the commands, yet graciously taking their place, filling those all too perfect stone declarations with His life ... a substitution, a very living remedy to any vain attempt of mine to cling to stone and not His heart.
In dependence and desperation I cling. The hem of His garment is wide enough for all.
Thanks be to God for His transforming gift!
Yes!

O! Praise God for this...and you...and you all reading...not reading...here and not here in whatever measure. His garment!

The hem of His garment is wide enough for all.
Amen.

As near as our heart and lips! The Word is not far, not far at all. O! the faith delivered! And through such undeniable and final means. "The" garment didn't heal...His garment! To touch anything...of His!!!!
Ahhh, you touch me brother! His...touches me in you.


How we might be brought to see! And desire!

How our weakness, our frailty, our utter need and desperation in such smallness before the all that is the all...terrorizes...and there shames us in all our inventions, vain inventions to cover! To hide!
Until! Until Jesus appears, not hiding...not hiding being made like us, not hiding to all the things that break us in our knowing of need...hunger, thirst, subject to fatigue, to such a weariness and weakness in body...that even death is not, will not be denied His experience! To so totally enter...in order to totally enter...that we may know!

For a brief moment I regretted my lack of sleep that moved me here. And to your words. For a brief moment I wasn't seeing God, unknowing of appointments and times...believing I was jailed in my own appointings and schedulings! But then! In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye...He appears! He appears for me against all my own that I have made a prison to inhabit. The limits I have prescribed to myself to satisfy myself of some vain form of safety. Something that will "keep" me from the terrors of facing the all before which I am so very very small.

For a brief moment...yes...the slumber that would speak "the all is against you! The all is coming for you, see its fierce and gaping mouth, you are at the edge of it, always at the edge of it!...lay down...and play dead before it! Hide...quickly in a slumber" Perhaps it can be fooled and pass by. And there dream...you are alive.

O! But such is not the Lord's death!
Awake O sleeper, rise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light!

To be awake...to the all that dwells in inapproachable light...and know there is no hiding, nor ever could be...nor was ever any necessity of hiding but only to the coming out...to meet Him, to face Him, to see Him! And there find seeking face...to bring you home.
 
Quote {Religion, the old covenant, demands the perfection that only Jesus living within us can bring. The OC was quid-pro-quo: You do your part and God will do His.} unquote.

So religion, in the context that the good minister means in the original vid is like the mind of the old covenant or as the old covenant formed the minds and hearts of man, if I understand correctly?

And if I follows this correctly it is that despite much Christian bible study and much worship people are somehow prone to fall back to a way that Christ's death, burial and resurrection destroyed? and in doing so miss the new way in part or completely.

So it is not observance and/or ritual which causes this? Or is it something else? Could it be that many who teach from scripture as their foundation are not teaching as God would teach us, yet they might be blind that they do not? After all much of scripture is about "someday"...?
 
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Thread starter #31
The mind of the old covenant was a perfect standard, no? Consider, however ...

Hebrews 7:18
For, on the one hand, there is a setting aside of a former commandment because of its weakness and uselessness.

Should the precepts of the old be "formed in the mind", may I suggest condemnation is not far behind? Don't get me wrong, being led by the Spirit of God is a holy, righteous thing -- our God is not in the business of leading His flock toward sin. But the old hasn't a teaching place for the believer any longer:

1 Tim 1:8,9 8
But we know that the Law is good, if one uses it lawfully, 9 realizing the fact that law is not made for a righteous person, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners...

Romans 6:14

For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law but under grace.

The jurisdiction of Moses/Law is valuable for the reveal of the sin in Adam we inherited by physical birth,
The freedom of the Spirit, by which a believer is lead, is inherited by spiritual birth.

The book of Galatians is also a good source for these things.
Maybe this helps?
No confusion intended. Grace and peace ...
 
Thread starter #32
Maybe some still more help per a recent post from Ralph here:

Have you ever tried to live just by knowing what’s wrong with you? You can’t live by Diagnosis—it’s merciless—but you can with Remedy. In fact, Remedy is all you need. And that’s the gospel.

To watch the video, click here.

I have found that failing to understand differences is always costly—ignorance is not bliss—whether those differences are between likes and dislikes, hopes and fears, and in theology, Old and New Covenants. What I don’t know will hurt me.

So what’s the difference between Law and Jesus? To answer that, let’s look through the lens of another question: What’s the difference between diagnosis and remedy? You have some experience with that, right?

For a long time, the Law of God proved the diagnosis that man was heartsick and could not heal himself. The Law was Diagnosis, not Remedy. The Law was perfect in proving man’s need for life—Jesus—on the inside. He is The Remedy.

Those who have Remedy (and are forever free of Diagnosis) may, nevertheless, become entranced and entangled by Diagnosis. You know how that goes—they get confused because the only true way to life—God’s life—is through Remedy and what He gives and does by grace and for free. Diagnosis is merciless. Have you ever been examined and exhausted by it? I bet you have. In the same way that you cannot live just by knowing what’s wrong with you, Diagnosis is worthless except it points to Remedy. The only thing Diagnosis has ever done well is to be the set-up for Remedy. Remedy ends Diagnosis in the same way that Jesus ends the Law. If you have Jesus, the other is done. Finished. Obsolete. Irrelevant.

If Diagnosis has been busily proving failure and sickness to you, be done with it. It’s not for you and it won’t help. You know who The Remedy is, and it’s Him you want. Tell Him. Talk with Remedy. Turn your faith to Him and how He is toward you, because that’s how you live. He is the life—the producer of it—for you and your heart. He has everything you need for free, and He makes fantastic house calls.

(See Romans 7:4-25; 8:1-4; 10:4; 1 Corinthians 15:56; 2 Corinthians 3:6-8; Galatians 3:23-25; 5:1-25.)
 
"Do you not mind what people say of you, seeing the direness of your condition necessitated the physician to move in and live with you for constant tending?" said the man.


"Ha ha ha" said the other.
 
I'm still puzzled that this optic would loom large enough to write essays and make an address on it! It seems a strange seam to mine to me--unless there is a large Christian constituency that is not fed by God! Where are they? Who are they? How can a deformation come about in the body of Christ... to return a freed man back to his former estate of being groomed by sin rather than by the Spirit of God Himself? Such a man would not be a Christian. Would he? Where is he and those like him bewitched perhaps...in Colorado or in Tennessee or in Oregon? How did it come about? How were they bewitched? Where are they? Are they within a demographic? Have they ever been? Is this something new? Do some Christians not turn the faith to Christ? If not, Why?
 
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