The worst lies of religion

Thread starter #21
God has always been compassionate! God is love after all. But some things written don't look like compassion from a modern human eye!
Amen. Keep in mind the teaching of Christ before the cross often elevated the severity of the law ... so that which saves would be contrasted against it and shown so much more glorious!

"The law made nothing perfect,
but the bringing in of a better hope did,
by which we draw near to God."

Religion, the old covenant, demands the perfection that only Jesus living within us can bring. The OC was quid-pro-quo: You do your part and God will do His. And remember the Israelites who responded to Moses, "everything God says in the book of the law we will DO!" well, they couldn't, no one can (that's the point BTW)
So, shortly after their vow the biggest Promise Keeper convention was washed away in a sea of self-sufficiency, not trust, and all human effort to appease their God came to a screeching halt.
But the New Covenant is the agreement between God and God, because He could swear by no one greater, He swore by Himself ... in order for us who believe in simple faith and trust IN Christ, to become the righteousness of God in Christ.
He became sin so that we would become righteous - His life and ours, crucified, buried and raised to the New.

Worth rejoicing, no? Certainly worth sharing. :)
 

Israel

Senior Member
Amen. Keep in mind the teaching of Christ before the cross often elevated the severity of the law ... so that which saves would be contrasted against it and shown so much more glorious!

"The law made nothing perfect,
but the bringing in of a better hope did,
by which we draw near to God."

Religion, the old covenant, demands the perfection that only Jesus living within us can bring. The OC was quid-pro-quo: You do your part and God will do His. And remember the Israelites who responded to Moses, "everything God says in the book of the law we will DO!" well, they couldn't, no one can (that's the point BTW)
So, shortly after their vow the biggest Promise Keeper convention was washed away in a sea of self-sufficiency, not trust, and all human effort to appease their God came to a screeching halt.
But the New Covenant is the agreement between God and God, because He could swear by no one greater, He swore by Himself ... in order for us who believe in simple faith and trust IN Christ, to become the righteousness of God in Christ.
He became sin so that we would become righteous - His life and ours, crucified, buried and raised to the New.

Worth rejoicing, no? Certainly worth sharing. :)
Yes, Jesus was careful to even make the point that previous understanding of the Law was all askew.
The one who wanted to take his stand on never having murdered nor committed adultery is told "hey...just because you didn't plunge a sword into your brother with your hand, or "do the nasty" with your neighbor's wife, the mere desire that is seen as that lust and that killing (hatred of your brother in the heart)...is precisely the same. Yeah...like you said...severity...and well beyond what was even understood.


Who's gonna escape that of themselves? Who, that previously may have thought them self "safe" is now not tasting some dread?

But here is an odd thing. One will only "taste that dread"...if they believe Jesus Christ. For if one does not believe Jesus Christ, his saying of those things would mean nothing...and still yet then trust in the "outward" obeying.

Ain't it something the way of the Spirit? I marvel.

Yes...Jesus can cause us to fear...and then deliver.
 
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Thread starter #24
One final thought I got from IGGY (Instagram lol):

Religion: "I messed up, dad is gonna kill me!"

Gospel: "I messed up. Better go talk to dad!"
 

j_seph

Senior Member
One final thought I got from IGGY (Instagram lol):

Religion: "I messed up, dad is gonna kill me!"

Gospel: "I messed up. Better go talk to dad!"
Religion: "I messed up, dad is gonna kill me!" "Dad says just do better next time"

Gospel: "I messed up. Better go talk to dad!" "Dad says, you knew better but did it anyway. Go and do better but there will be consequences to pay for your actions.


Short and simple, be a Christian not religious. Be Christ like not self righteous.
 

Israel

Senior Member
I cannot, and will not, deny that personally I need it continuously settled to me that I am both loved, and forgiven. Whether this makes me appear as only the most fresh faced babe in Christ...or worse, hypocrite...is of little matter...God knows all my necessity and how much demand I place upon His appearing through Christ as such, to me. I absolutely need to see the favor of God. I cannot...live without it.

That I am at times made aware of my participation in things I find as "not in God's favor" I also cannot deny. But it is most usual here that I find a thing previously so hidden. For there seems a knee jerk response to "get out from under this sense of displeasure" (for at that moment it seems all that is exquisitely unbearable) that I furiously search my inventory to see what I might have to offer for exculpation. It's both the knee jerk to escape...and the "my inventory" that is being revealed as "the trick"...the sleight of hand being worked upon me.

As long as it has taken the Lord in all patience to make clear...that it is a demonstration of favor to even make known to me there are things of "disfavor" and that I might be found in such...is itself alone the work of God. Simply, I couldn't even know I am "off base" unless told. This is no less, grace.

So, what then of this "knee jerk" that would prompt me to a my doing of something from my inventory? As I have said, and cannot relent...I need to know I am loved.
Again...God's patience. For if it is truly God...now "laying upon me" this need to "do something" to recapture his love, or favor, (as though it were ever of my doing)...how at odds this puts me both with scripture...and no less...with my plainest experience of Jesus Christ. Therefore is found a great discrepancy if imagining it is God "laying" such upon me. Nevertheless...a "something wants to". Something is working and willing to bring despite to grace. And this something is able to bring great pressure. We are told to not be "ignorant of his schemes".

If ever I imagine that contingency I would place upon the Lord is real, and a true thing...thanks be to God for rebuke! Thanks be to God for chastening! Thanks be to God for complete and utter rebuff! Something wants very much for me to hold this view "God loves me, because..." and there find something I have either done, or must find to do.

Can a man be a forgetful hearer of this?

But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

Or this?

For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

If I must be displayed as the most retarded of all believers (and I mean no disrespect as that word's usage would now, in these days, be relegated to by use) so be it! If I am displayed as the slowest, most dense, most recalcitrant of all...so be it! I care not in respect to the joy of finding. If my assignment in all has been to be the very "last or latest to the party", the last one barely stumbling in...Hallelujah! The directions to the party (this feast) are true! The way...is correct, and right above all...Jesus Christ! Regardless of how I may have seen. Or understood. Or...may even yet...presently see.

And if in any decrying of religion...I am made to be shown as being the very most of religious...that is under some compulsion, binding...to even decry it...Hallelujah!

There is nothing of myself initia-able. I need to be shown...everything that is anything.
I have no capacity to be responsible. But I do see a giving to me that encourages a response-ability. Things I know that of myself I could never see.

Occupy till I come.

I couldn't escape it! Who...can?

Even if all my occupying were in sin, and fear, and doubt, and planting harvests in dead and worthless soil. I thought once I could and should try to make of myself...good soil! Or at least "better soil" (or worse, simply assumed..."that must be me!") Ha! and again Ha!

Our brother Paul said "I am what I am by the grace of God"

The dirt I am, I am.

But seeing God's grace in it, toward it, for it, His patient care and tending of it, and such as so long before any grace was seen to be found to even consider one's self as such, is working! Dirt made...and given ability...to respond.

Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord. Behold, the husbandman waiteth for the precious fruit of the earth, and hath long patience for it, until he receive the early and latter rain.

I don't even know how to be patient! But the command comes, and with it, as with all of His commands that are to eternal life...comes a Someone to both watch, and watch for.


Yes...there's a patience worth watching and beholding...in that One.

Ain't it at least a little bit funny that God, who knows very well how we view things, would also know our first taking of man being made of the "dust of the earth" might, and would, incline us to think in terms of a commonness that borders almost on insult? A relegation...to insignificance?

But, somehow, and somewhere along the way...it is gotten "over to us"...that not even one smallest speck of dust, one seemingly and totally insignificant thing of such "commonness to us" is no less upheld...atom to atom, molecule to molecule by the word of His power. The "miracle of dust" is, no less, the miracle of anything else of His creation.

And I am persuaded it is only because of His willing appearance to us in that, and of that, container of dust, through Jesus Christ's being made in like fashion as a man, that we see anything...and that is everything to be seen.

Praise God for the pit from which we have been raised!
 
Thread starter #27
Yes, Yes! There is One coming with the commands, yet graciously taking their place, filling those all too perfect stone declarations with His life ... a substitution, a very living remedy to any vain attempt of mine to cling to stone and not His heart.
In dependence and desperation I cling. The hem of His garment is wide enough for all.
Thanks be to God for His transforming gift!
 

Israel

Senior Member
Yes, Yes! There is One coming with the commands, yet graciously taking their place, filling those all too perfect stone declarations with His life ... a substitution, a very living remedy to any vain attempt of mine to cling to stone and not His heart.
In dependence and desperation I cling. The hem of His garment is wide enough for all.
Thanks be to God for His transforming gift!
Yes!

O! Praise God for this...and you...and you all reading...not reading...here and not here in whatever measure. His garment!

The hem of His garment is wide enough for all.
Amen.

As near as our heart and lips! The Word is not far, not far at all. O! the faith delivered! And through such undeniable and final means. "The" garment didn't heal...His garment! To touch anything...of His!!!!
Ahhh, you touch me brother! His...touches me in you.


How we might be brought to see! And desire!

How our weakness, our frailty, our utter need and desperation in such smallness before the all that is the all...terrorizes...and there shames us in all our inventions, vain inventions to cover! To hide!
Until! Until Jesus appears, not hiding...not hiding being made like us, not hiding to all the things that break us in our knowing of need...hunger, thirst, subject to fatigue, to such a weariness and weakness in body...that even death is not, will not be denied His experience! To so totally enter...in order to totally enter...that we may know!

For a brief moment I regretted my lack of sleep that moved me here. And to your words. For a brief moment I wasn't seeing God, unknowing of appointments and times...believing I was jailed in my own appointings and schedulings! But then! In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye...He appears! He appears for me against all my own that I have made a prison to inhabit. The limits I have prescribed to myself to satisfy myself of some vain form of safety. Something that will "keep" me from the terrors of facing the all before which I am so very very small.

For a brief moment...yes...the slumber that would speak "the all is against you! The all is coming for you, see its fierce and gaping mouth, you are at the edge of it, always at the edge of it!...lay down...and play dead before it! Hide...quickly in a slumber" Perhaps it can be fooled and pass by. And there dream...you are alive.

O! But such is not the Lord's death!
Awake O sleeper, rise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light!

To be awake...to the all that dwells in inapproachable light...and know there is no hiding, nor ever could be...nor was ever any necessity of hiding but only to the coming out...to meet Him, to face Him, to see Him! And there find seeking face...to bring you home.
 
Thread starter #29
Amen, the wonder!, beloved in the Lord, Amen!

With thanks.
 

gordon 2

Senior Member
Quote {Religion, the old covenant, demands the perfection that only Jesus living within us can bring. The OC was quid-pro-quo: You do your part and God will do His.} unquote.

So religion, in the context that the good minister means in the original vid is like the mind of the old covenant or as the old covenant formed the minds and hearts of man, if I understand correctly?

And if I follows this correctly it is that despite much Christian bible study and much worship people are somehow prone to fall back to a way that Christ's death, burial and resurrection destroyed? and in doing so miss the new way in part or completely.

So it is not observance and/or ritual which causes this? Or is it something else? Could it be that many who teach from scripture as their foundation are not teaching as God would teach us, yet they might be blind that they do not? After all much of scripture is about "someday"...?
 
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Thread starter #31
The mind of the old covenant was a perfect standard, no? Consider, however ...

Hebrews 7:18
For, on the one hand, there is a setting aside of a former commandment because of its weakness and uselessness.

Should the precepts of the old be "formed in the mind", may I suggest condemnation is not far behind? Don't get me wrong, being led by the Spirit of God is a holy, righteous thing -- our God is not in the business of leading His flock toward sin. But the old hasn't a teaching place for the believer any longer:

1 Tim 1:8,9 8
But we know that the Law is good, if one uses it lawfully, 9 realizing the fact that law is not made for a righteous person, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners...

Romans 6:14

For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law but under grace.

The jurisdiction of Moses/Law is valuable for the reveal of the sin in Adam we inherited by physical birth,
The freedom of the Spirit, by which a believer is lead, is inherited by spiritual birth.

The book of Galatians is also a good source for these things.
Maybe this helps?
No confusion intended. Grace and peace ...
 
Thread starter #32
Maybe some still more help per a recent post from Ralph here:

Have you ever tried to live just by knowing what’s wrong with you? You can’t live by Diagnosis—it’s merciless—but you can with Remedy. In fact, Remedy is all you need. And that’s the gospel.

To watch the video, click here.

I have found that failing to understand differences is always costly—ignorance is not bliss—whether those differences are between likes and dislikes, hopes and fears, and in theology, Old and New Covenants. What I don’t know will hurt me.

So what’s the difference between Law and Jesus? To answer that, let’s look through the lens of another question: What’s the difference between diagnosis and remedy? You have some experience with that, right?

For a long time, the Law of God proved the diagnosis that man was heartsick and could not heal himself. The Law was Diagnosis, not Remedy. The Law was perfect in proving man’s need for life—Jesus—on the inside. He is The Remedy.

Those who have Remedy (and are forever free of Diagnosis) may, nevertheless, become entranced and entangled by Diagnosis. You know how that goes—they get confused because the only true way to life—God’s life—is through Remedy and what He gives and does by grace and for free. Diagnosis is merciless. Have you ever been examined and exhausted by it? I bet you have. In the same way that you cannot live just by knowing what’s wrong with you, Diagnosis is worthless except it points to Remedy. The only thing Diagnosis has ever done well is to be the set-up for Remedy. Remedy ends Diagnosis in the same way that Jesus ends the Law. If you have Jesus, the other is done. Finished. Obsolete. Irrelevant.

If Diagnosis has been busily proving failure and sickness to you, be done with it. It’s not for you and it won’t help. You know who The Remedy is, and it’s Him you want. Tell Him. Talk with Remedy. Turn your faith to Him and how He is toward you, because that’s how you live. He is the life—the producer of it—for you and your heart. He has everything you need for free, and He makes fantastic house calls.

(See Romans 7:4-25; 8:1-4; 10:4; 1 Corinthians 15:56; 2 Corinthians 3:6-8; Galatians 3:23-25; 5:1-25.)
 

Israel

Senior Member
"Do you not mind what people say of you, seeing the direness of your condition necessitated the physician to move in and live with you for constant tending?" said the man.


"Ha ha ha" said the other.
 

gordon 2

Senior Member
I'm still puzzled that this optic would loom large enough to write essays and make an address on it! It seems a strange seam to mine to me--unless there is a large Christian constituency that is not fed by God! Where are they? Who are they? How can a deformation come about in the body of Christ... to return a freed man back to his former estate of being groomed by sin rather than by the Spirit of God Himself? Such a man would not be a Christian. Would he? Where is he and those like him bewitched perhaps...in Colorado or in Tennessee or in Oregon? How did it come about? How were they bewitched? Where are they? Are they within a demographic? Have they ever been? Is this something new? Do some Christians not turn the faith to Christ? If not, Why?
 
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Israel

Senior Member
Paul said this:
"If I be not an apostle unto others, yet doubtless I am to you..."

If this brother has any sight, or even any oversight (God knows) it is only in that to which he has been appointed by God. And if his speaking is compelled to that entrusted to his care, rather than seeking by presumption to assume a care, it will have and bear fruit in and through that to which it is intended.

That I do not find its address frivolous means nothing, but we might see Paul found necessity of an addressing to even that which was established through him. We enter a double edged-ness of sword if on one hand we exalt Paul to any extreme, but fail to recognize that even in that (assumed) supremacy, he found necessity of a reestablishment to the truth by reminder. And that not infrequently among those who enjoyed his very presence and labor among them. No less did Peter see himself assigned a role as reminder.

If natural weight and gravity of things that may hinder both sight and devotion (though they be of no consequence) it may well be the soul's clarity is rightly tended by reminder of such...that "things" of no consequence deserve a warning against as often as God gives warning to their address.

"Beware the leaven of the Pharisees" says One before His death.

And after His resurrection bears address to the seven churches.

And Paul was not blind to say:

For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.

Such warnings either go heeded or not. What needs reminder...needs reminder.

A man made uncomfortable by the presence of a car following with lights upon its roof may either have reason for such discomfort, or be relieved to see more clearly that particular constable is out of his jurisdiction (or merely a fire captain).

Nevertheless...by whatever means are necessary to bring a man to healthily question the accuracy of his own speedometer before the Maker of the road, I find not frivolous. The one who only then in such dependence is assured his speed and driving are not to the setting of bad example is happy in all.

But perhaps those are such that put no hope in silence as assent.

These things hast thou done, and I kept silence; thou thoughtest that I was altogether such an one as thyself: but I will reprove thee, and set them in order before thine eyes.

They may well be those who rather appeal now for chastening, than shock, later.
And are learning to welcome every reminder, even if it seem to be applied with stripes.
How the Lord keeps...is a marvelous thing. For no man could or would choose it for himself.


Those whom I love, I rebuke and chasten...

Thanks be to God the demand of love in Christ is made to outstrip all else.
 

gordon 2

Senior Member
Quote (I have found that failing to understand differences is always costly—ignorance is not bliss—whether those differences are between likes and dislikes, hopes and fears, and in theology, Old and New Covenants. What I don’t know will hurt me.) un quote

Well this is what a simple evidence states to me, and that evidence is gleaned from the quote above and this is that difference "excites" the man and it is part of his makeup presently. It is a study at least. But is it a ministering to the body of Christ? I'm not certain of it--my excitement must be elsewhere.

My excitement regards the body of Christ, to be honest, is of not falling into rank. It is a concern for general insubordination( or in general), and not the misconduct of particular individuals in the body. So my excitement is very different than that of the good minister. And this is why my questions and inquiries as to a constituency that would need his form of excitability as ministry. I still don't know where it is, or I don't know who he is addressing other than those who might be interested and equally exited in his personal study of "differences" as he puts it.

I find it a bit strange that those in Christ, that is to say those living with Christ, should know that they could be living within the old covenant all along. ( I would think the would simply be convicted of the fact if in Christ.) This does not make sense to me. Nor does it make sense that those not living with Christ, and living in the heap of the old covenant are to appreciate the finer life in the resurrected Christ? ( In which case an apostle's ministry of faith would be required...for the blind are not insightful to a light of a Kingdom they know nothing of.)

What's it all about Alphie?


What's it all about, Alfie?
Is it just for the moment we live?
What's it all about when you sort it out, Alfie?
Are we meant to take more than we give
Or are we meant to be kind?
And if only fools are kind, Alfie
Then I guess it is wise to be cruel
And if life belongs only to the strong, Alfie
What will you lend on an old golden rule?
As sure as I believe there's a heaven above, Alfie
I know there's something much more,
Something even non-believers can believe in
I believe in love, Alfie
Without true love we just exist, Alfie
Until you find the love you've missed you're nothing, Alfie
When you walk let your heart lead the way
And you'll find love any day, Alfie
Alfie


Now that is a song. And in many ways it does not minister, but it is a shake up of the spirit and a reaching out to the excitable in a man who would care to read and phantom the words to a song which sets about with the differences of existence. But does it minister to the body? It speaks of love. But does it minister?


Now what was Paul's excitement as to the body of Christ? A body of divers parts unified in Christ.

28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Now if a man has not received the truth (sufficient) from the faith ( as Paul would put it) so that he has turned back to the law where is he today? What is it of the old world that has turned him away from the body? Where is he and when does he eat with those who walk in the law and willingly, knowingly accepts to be part of that body-- and/or willingly they separate the body? Where are the new Galatians, Those who feed off of the law and in the name claim to be fed of Christ? How does this happen?

Who has preached the law as if it was the faith? And who has received the law believing it was the faith? And who is Mr. Harris ministering to?
 
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Madman

Senior Member
One final thought I got from IGGY (Instagram lol):

Religion: "I messed up, dad is gonna kill me!"

Gospel: "I messed up. Better go talk to dad!"
"He came to my desk with a quivering lip,
The lesson was done.
'Have you a new sheet for me, dear teacher?
I've spoiled this one.'
I took his sheet, all soiled and blotted,
And gave him a new one all unspotted,
And to his tired heart I cried.
'Do better now, my child.'

I went to the throne with a troubled heart,
The day was done.
'Have a new day for me, dear Master?
I've spoiled this one.'
He took my day, all soiled and blotted,
And gave a new one all unspotted.
And to my tired heart He cried,
'Do better now, my child.'"

Maria Rice
 

Madman

Senior Member
Religion: "I messed up, dad is gonna kill me!" "Dad says just do better next time"

Gospel: "I messed up. Better go talk to dad!" "Dad says, you knew better but did it anyway. Go and do better but there will be consequences to pay for your actions.


Short and simple, be a Christian not religious. Be Christ like not self righteous.
Ouch! Penal Substitutionary Atonement. "God was in Christ Jesus reconciling the world to himself not counting men's sins against them". 2 Cor. 5:19
 

j_seph

Senior Member
Ouch! Penal Substitutionary Atonement. "God was in Christ Jesus reconciling the world to himself not counting men's sins against them". 2 Cor. 5:19
Please explain your thoughts here?
 

Israel

Senior Member
Quote (I have found that failing to understand differences is always costly—ignorance is not bliss—whether those differences are between likes and dislikes, hopes and fears, and in theology, Old and New Covenants. What I don’t know will hurt me.) un quote

Well this is what a simple evidence states to me, and that evidence is gleaned from the quote above and this is that difference "excites" the man and it is part of his makeup presently. It is a study at least. But is it a ministering to the body of Christ? I'm not certain of it--my excitement must be elsewhere.

My excitement regards the body of Christ, to be honest, is of not falling into rank. It is a concern for general insubordination( or in general), and not the misconduct of particular individuals in the body. So my excitement is very different than that of the good minister. And this is why my questions and inquiries as to a constituency that would need his form of excitability as ministry. I still don't know where it is, or I don't know who he is addressing other than those who might be interested and equally exited in his personal study of "differences" as he puts it.

I find it a bit strange that those in Christ, that is to say those living with Christ, should know that they could be living within the old covenant all along. ( I would think the would simply be convicted of the fact if in Christ.) This does not make sense to me. Nor does it make sense that those not living with Christ, and living in the heap of the old covenant are to appreciate the finer life in the resurrected Christ? ( In which case an apostle's ministry of faith would be required...for the blind are not insightful to a light of a Kingdom they know nothing of.)

What's it all about Alphie?


What's it all about, Alfie?
Is it just for the moment we live?
What's it all about when you sort it out, Alfie?
Are we meant to take more than we give
Or are we meant to be kind?
And if only fools are kind, Alfie
Then I guess it is wise to be cruel
And if life belongs only to the strong, Alfie
What will you lend on an old golden rule?
As sure as I believe there's a heaven above, Alfie
I know there's something much more,
Something even non-believers can believe in
I believe in love, Alfie
Without true love we just exist, Alfie
Until you find the love you've missed you're nothing, Alfie
When you walk let your heart lead the way
And you'll find love any day, Alfie
Alfie


Now that is a song. And in many ways it does not minister, but it is a shake up of the spirit and a reaching out to the excitable in a man who would care to read and phantom the words to a song which sets about with the differences of existence. But does it minister to the body? It speaks of love. But does it minister?


Now what was Paul's excitement as to the body of Christ? A body of divers parts unified in Christ.

28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Now if a man has not received the truth (sufficient) from the faith ( as Paul would put it) so that he has turned back to the law where is he today? What is it of the old world that has turned him away from the body? Where is he and when does he eat with those who walk in the law and willingly, knowingly accepts to be part of that body-- and/or willingly they separate the body? Where are the new Galatians, Those who feed off of the law and in the name claim to be fed of Christ? How does this happen?

Who has preached the law as if it was the faith? And who has received the law believing it was the faith? And who is Mr. Harris ministering to?
The persuasion I see confirmed to my experience in the most simple of terms is of this.

God manifesting the life of Jesus Christ in a thing once totally ignorant of it. And of such ignorance, and in such ignorance (blindness), was set to opposition of it. This is how, or in what seeing I perceive the sense of what Paul has said, of a mystery hidden from ages past but now revealed to his saints, "Christ in you, the hope of glory".

No less in his experience described as: "when it pleased God to reveal His Son in me..."

That which this now enlightened thing is given to express "Jesus Christ is Lord" is neither formula nor mere stringing together of some words, but that most fundamental expression of being in which the thing is found given by God, is of God, and sets that thing to an agreement (in and with God) beyond and prior to which there is nothing. I know of no other way in words to express the complete fundamentality of it. The depth of this gift of knowing we are only beginning to discover.

To me, it is God's answer to the thing created to know, and of which such fundamental desire to know (created rightly in that thing for a knowing) by which that thing was once taken advantage through subtlety, and the work of a subtle one.

In another sense (to me at least) it appears very much as though the promise of complete satisfaction of knowing is now given to that thing in form of (what to it may yet appear) as simplest confession and expression...but with this promise and instruction (command of God) "hold fast to it, this conviction, even in what appears complete simplicity (to you)...and you will assuredly know all". In that sense it is the "key" to all that may yet seem hidden to man.

To say the distraction of things does not yet persist through subtlety is much (to me) of that which the disciple is warned against with many warnings...with each warning found necessary to its growth. "Yes"..."things have a power to distract...but their power will be displayed as nakedly insufficient and of such poverty in the holding of this first conviction...that is to remain all of conviction...Jesus Christ is Lord".

What is subtle to one...is not subtle at all to another. Thus Paul, with plainer sight saw where such "I am of Paul, I am of Appollos" was headed, though such claimers to themselves maintained this as right thing...in their own presumed right to establishment of preference. Paul would have none of it. And so with many other things.

Yes, insubordination, a thing that would seek to manifest itself against the Lord's order of things remains neither hidden nor undealt with by the word of Christ.

If there be no remaining ignorance, nor temptation by subtlety, then is this fulfilled "until we all come unto a perfect man..."

God has promised that through Christ...man will know Him. And there is no thing to know that does not fall away to the knowing of Him.
 
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