They're in heaven?

[Jody Hawk]

This is kinda a spinoff to the other funeral thread. I've been to funerals where the preacher says the deceased is in heaven now. All the while I'm thinking this person never lived a christian life and the preacher never even knew him. Who is he to say whether or not this deceased person went on to heaven?

 

[1gr8bldr]

I see it often also. I think it's an effort to comfort the family. I sure don't expect them to say the opposite. I would personally let all the air out of his tires for that

 

[1gr8bldr]

I guess the real question is; can you be saved on your death bed? Are these confessions real? Are they sincere? Knowing that some may be and some may not be, what are the percentages expected? Have they accepted the doctrine of the church such as the trinity or did they accept that Jesus was God's son who died for them? The last one I mentioned gets me. I know so many times when a preacher will claim that if you don't believe in the trinity then your going to helll but then will tell someone on their death bed that Jesus died for their sins and then at the funneral wil stroke his ego with how he saved that dying man. Go figure

 

[CAL]

Who is he to say whether or not this deceased person went on to heaven?

By the same respect,who is he to say the deceased did not go to heaven?With all due respect Jody,like you I wonder too but do we ever really know a persons relationship with his maker.Even the very worst can be saved,remember the thief on the cross?

 

[Jody Hawk]

By the same respect,who is he to say the deceased did not go to heaven?With all due respect Jody,like you I wonder too but do we ever really know a persons relationship with his maker.Even the very worst can be saved,remember the thief on the cross?

While I agree that we shouldn't judge, I also think a preacher shouldn't assume someone they never knew is in heaven. If they are using that line to comfort the family, wouldn't that be a lie?

 

[GA DAWG]

I don't know bout yall but where I come from. We usually don't have preachers preaching folks funerals that don't know em. Ain't like you put a wanted ad in the paper.

 

[CAL]

I don't know bout yall but where I come from. We usually don't have preachers preaching folks funerals that don't know em. Ain't like you put a wanted ad in the paper.

I understand and around here we often times have people to come home to be buried rather than somewhere else.Most times the preacher that does not know the individual will read appropriate scripture and that is all.But we all like to think everyone goes to heaven,I do anyway.

 

[Jody Hawk]

I don't know bout yall but where I come from. We usually don't have preachers preaching folks funerals that don't know em. Ain't like you put a wanted ad in the paper.

Well, there's folks everywhere that don't go to church and know any preachers. Uncle Joe died and he never attended church in his life. What do y'all do then, cover him up and say Amen?

 

[CAL]

Well, there's folks everywhere that don't go to church and know any preachers. Uncle Joe died and he never attended church in his life. What do y'all do then, cover him up and say Amen?

Around here the preacher would talk to the family and get information about Uncle Joe's life and speak of the finer things he did to help others and his neighbors.Read the appropriate scripture,and have a prayer.
I would bet your Uncle Joe came from the old crowd who's word was his bond,didn't want to offend anyone but neither did he wish to be offended either.Probably one of the pillars of the community too.What say you?

 

[StriperAddict]

CAL, I'd say salt of the earth folk come in all shapes/sizes and sometimes got grace comin' out of their pores, but maybe not their mouths

 

[CAL]

CAL, I'd say salt of the earth folk come in all shapes/sizes and sometimes got grace comin' out of their pores, but maybe not their mouths

I agree Striper,excellent comment,excellent!

 

[Michael F. Gray]

Several good issues here. First, can you be saved on your death bed? I'll remind you two thieves were crucified on either side of Jesus. One humbled himself and asked the Lord to remember him after pointing out he was aware Jesus had committed no offense. Christ plainly told that thief, "Today thou shalt be with me in Paradise." I would suggest a man nailed to a tree is about as "deathbed" as it gets. Secondly, you mentioned the departed being "preached into heaven." I never do this apart from knowing the personal testimony of the deceased. The Word of God tells us plainly, "The death of his saints is precious to the Lord." If I don't know the departed I can't change his eternal destination. Whether it was heaven or Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ---- was determined when the final breath was taken, and that soul was summoned before it's creator. The credibility of God's servant rests surely on his truthfullness. Our words should be measured carefully. We will give account for all spoken.

 

[huntmore]

We had a family friend die. He had never gone to church much if at all. If he was a Christian we never knew it. When he died we went to the funeral and the preacher (who didn't know him) refered to him as a saint.
When we got in the car my mom said she didn't like it when the preacher said he was a saint. She also said the word saint better not be used to discribe her at her funeral.

 

[Huntinfool]

I think about this a lot and in very specific terms.

I had a very good friend in highschool. We were very close and I'm sad even now thinking about him. He introduced me to the drums. We used to go over to each other's houses an play for hours, record solos and do all kinds of stupid drum stuff together.

We drifted apart after highschool and he got into some very bad stuff. About 5 years ago, I got a call from a buddy who told me to go check the obits in the AJC.

The he was. My old buddy Ryan. He ended up deep in drugs and other trouble and eventually got to a place where he apparently shot himself in the face and died.

At his funeral the priest (catholic funeral) spoke highly of him and how he was at peace now and he's with the Father, etc etc.


They had to bring him in in a little box because he had to be cremated....it was that bad.

I couldn't help but think...this entire funeral is a lie. I loved Ryan dearly. I play a little riff every time I sit down at the drums that he and I made up together. Sort of a tribute.

But he died as an unbliever, living the life as an unbeliever and he is not in heaven. It grieves me to say that. But it's the truth.

I wonder how many people might have been saved if that priest had had the guts to tell the truth at that funeral. I know the feelings of the family were saved that day. But I wonder what kind of damage was really done.

 

[CAL]

Huntinfool,I clearly understand where you are coming from but there again.I like to think that just maybe there was a possibility that he surrendered himself to the Lord before killing himself.I have always believed we never really know anyone and hardly ourselves.For some reason we just think we know some people.We do know lots of things about people but never their relationship with their Lord.I am never surprised at what people do.

If the preacher had told what you seem to think was the truth?Most likely it would have been a turn off to the whole group at the funeral and nobody would have changed.I say this because this is just the way people are at funerals.People expect to hear nice comments no matter how rough a life someone lives.

 

[huntmore]

Hf no one knows who is in heaven but God.

 

[Randy]

I think like most pastors these pastors at funerals give people the benefit of doubt. According to my Baptist upbringing a person can be saved in early childhood (7,8,9 or so) and then go on to live a life of drugs, murder and other bad stuff and yet they go to Heaven. Once you are written down you cannot be removed no matter how bad you turn out. I personally have a little different belief but in the end it is still the same.

 

[Jody Hawk]

I think about this a lot and in very specific terms.

I had a very good friend in highschool. We were very close and I'm sad even now thinking about him. He introduced me to the drums. We used to go over to each other's houses an play for hours, record solos and do all kinds of stupid drum stuff together.

We drifted apart after highschool and he got into some very bad stuff. About 5 years ago, I got a call from a buddy who told me to go check the obits in the AJC.

The he was. My old buddy Ryan. He ended up deep in drugs and other trouble and eventually got to a place where he apparently shot himself in the face and died.

At his funeral the priest (catholic funeral) spoke highly of him and how he was at peace now and he's with the Father, etc etc.


They had to bring him in in a little box because he had to be cremated....it was that bad.

I couldn't help but think...this entire funeral is a lie. I loved Ryan dearly. I play a little riff every time I sit down at the drums that he and I made up together. Sort of a tribute.

But he died as an unbliever, living the life as an unbeliever and he is not in heaven. It grieves me to say that. But it's the truth.

I wonder how many people might have been saved if that priest had had the guts to tell the truth at that funeral. I know the feelings of the family were saved that day. But I wonder what kind of damage was really done.

This is exactly what I'm talking about. I don't know if the person I referred to ever asked Christ into his heart but I do know at one time he claimed there was no God. Then he died of a sudden death so there's no chance he was saved on his death bed. I just don't think it's right to assume anything and get up there telling the family their loved one is in heaven when you never knew him and don't have a clue as to whether or not he was a born again believer.

 

[Huntinfool]

I like to think that just maybe there was a possibility that he surrendered himself to the Lord before killing himself.

Hf no one knows who is in heaven but God.

If he had an experience with God that brought him to saving faith and the holy spirit came into his life...it is not possible that he pulled that trigger immediately after.

I am sorry. It's not possible. The thief on the cross...his last act was to ask that he be included in the Kingdom and then he died. Ryan's last act was to put a gun to his own face and put a bullet in the temple of God. When God is truly experienced, he is life-altering. I do not believe there is biblical justification to say that you could come to a saving knowledge of him and then immediately kill yourself.

Otherwise, he had no hope...

and hope does not put us to shame, because God's love has been poured into our hearts through the Holy Spirit who has been given to us.
(Romans 5:5 ESV)

When God's love is poured into our hearts through the HS, we have a hope that does not disappoint. I would assume that if he cried out to God in that final hour it was because he was desperate for hope. Had he cried out, hope would have come and the bullet would not have left the chamber.

When the thief on the cross cried out to Jesus...he was looking for hope and he recieved it.

No one knows who is in heaven but God. You are correct. But I would say it is just as bad an injustice to assume someone is as that he isn't.

 

[rjcruiser]

If he had an experience with God that brought him to saving faith...it is not possible that he pulled that trigger immediately after.

I am sorry. It's not possible.

No one knows who is in heaven but God. You are correct. But I would say it is just as bad an injustice to assume someone is as that he isn't.

Well put.

It is a sad state of preachers today that would rather smooth things over than preach the truth.

I guess that is why we have the churches we have today and the "christians" we have today as well.