Last week we celebrated my grandmothers 85 birthday. My uncle said to look around and ponder that all of us here attending came "through" her. Not one of us here were here on account of ourselves. I thought about the debate of through vs by in the scriptures. By implies creator, through implies agent. Here is the challenge, like Hobbs thread, show with the scriptures that Jesus created the universe. Naturally, since I posted this, you realize I have a stand on this. It will be seen that no scripture exists to support this tradition. Even if I were trinitarian, I would feel no need to force Jesus to be the creator. As Hobbs has done, I will point out the greek from which our translations have came from when the suspect verses come up. The bases is that "the old has gone, the new has come" and that nothing new has come that has not come through/on account of Jesus.