Trinity is humanity's Father/Son Image!

1gr8bldr

Senior Member
Calling God his father, making himself equal with God is merely an OT fact of society. The Father ran his estate until a time when he basically retired and gave the authority of the family farm/business/ direct family members and slaves over to his firstborn son. Thus making himself equal to his Father, as his father had done. But not in the same time period. At differing time periods, his father is equal to his father who is equal to his father who is..... It was not considered a real claim of equal to God..., just a use of his words to inflict harm as you often see in this day from the democrats against the republicans
 
Thread starter #43
5 Let the same mind be in you that was in Christ Jesus,
6 who, though he was in the form of God,
did not regard equality with God
as something to be exploited,
7 but emptied himself,
taking the form of a slave,
being born in human likeness.
And being found in human form,
8 he humbled himself
and became obedient to the point of death—
even death on a cross.
When did Christ "empty himself and humble himself before the Father? When did he become obedient?

I would assume it had to be before the Father sent him as explained in John 3:16. Before his incarnation. Before he changed forms or morphed.
 

1gr8bldr

Senior Member
5 Let the same mind be in you that was in Christ Jesus,
6 who, though he was in the form of God,
did not regard equality with God
as something to be exploited,
7 but emptied himself,
taking the form of a slave,
being born in human likeness.
And being found in human form,
8 he humbled himself
and became obedient to the point of death—
even death on a cross.
This is the most misunderstood verse I know of. Context being to be like Christ in humility in giving of oneself for others..... Jesus being made in the image of God, AS ALL MEN ARE, did not consider equality with God as something to be had, AS EVE HAD DONE, but humbled himself, realizing than man/himself included, was made to serve God rather than rival God, AS EVE COVETED, he humbled himself and became the ultimate servant, obedient even to the point of death on a cross, therefore, God was pleased and therefore, God highly exalted him, giving him a name above all others, that at the name of Jesus, every knee shall bow.
Modern day interpretations miss that we are all made in God's image, they miss the original sin that man inherited. They miss how every man called to be a leader of God's people set themselves up as a God on earth, having the people serve them rather than them serve the people. Jesus however, did not take the route of milking his position to gain, wealth, power, women and fame. But rather went to the cross in obedience, having faith that God would "not let his prophet see decay". They miss how Jesus realized that man was made to serve, not rival God. Eve wanted to be like God, his rival in glory, but Jesus realized that man was made to serve rather than rival, thus he humbled himself...... And in reward, God in turn gave him that very thing which he did not pursue. Check the greek, "form" should have been image as we all are
 

1gr8bldr

Senior Member
"being found as a man"... ponder over this. Modern interpretations gloss over this. They know that God did not find himself as a man, as if in, surprise. It referrers to a realization of Jesus. What, that he was God? No, that man was not meant to rival God. This is how we will know the real Jesus in the end times. Jesus would never claim to be God, thus rival him. Miss this context..... and you have missed the entire context of the scriptures
 

1gr8bldr

Senior Member
Jesus said that, "no one has seen the Father," and he also said that if they saw him they had indeed seen the Father!
Sadly as "the body of Christ", we can not fulfill our purpose of being able to say, if you have seen me you have seen Jesus. We have failed. But this is the context of "if you have seen me you have seen the Father." And note, why would he say the Father, not God. The son is not the Father in the triune god. And where is the HS"
 

Madman

Senior Member
John 5:18 For this reason the Jews were seeking all the more to kill him, because he was not only breaking the sabbath, but was also calling God his own Father, thereby making himself equal to God.
 

1gr8bldr

Senior Member
John 5:18 For this reason the Jews were seeking all the more to kill him, because he was not only breaking the sabbath, but was also calling God his own Father, thereby making himself equal to God.
See Post 41. Notice that the word equal is present...... Meaning that this was there deduction, not his claim
 
Thread starter #49
This is the most misunderstood verse I know of. Context being to be like Christ in humility in giving of oneself for others..... Jesus being made in the image of God, AS ALL MEN ARE, did not consider equality with God as something to be had, AS EVE HAD DONE, but humbled himself, realizing than man/himself included, was made to serve God rather than rival God, AS EVE COVETED, he humbled himself and became the ultimate servant, obedient even to the point of death on a cross, therefore, God was pleased and therefore, God highly exalted him, giving him a name above all others, that at the name of Jesus, every knee shall bow.
Modern day interpretations miss that we are all made in God's image, they miss the original sin that man inherited. They miss how every man called to be a leader of God's people set themselves up as a God on earth, having the people serve them rather than them serve the people. Jesus however, did not take the route of milking his position to gain, wealth, power, women and fame. But rather went to the cross in obedience, having faith that God would "not let his prophet see decay". They miss how Jesus realized that man was made to serve, not rival God. Eve wanted to be like God, his rival in glory, but Jesus realized that man was made to serve rather than rival, thus he humbled himself...... And in reward, God in turn gave him that very thing which he did not pursue. Check the greek, "form" should have been image as we all are
I can see that. It's like Jesus was the perfect servant. The perfect human image. Jesus told the Jews when they were accusing him of being God something about ye are all gods?
He was trying to explain that they too were made in that image.
 
Thread starter #50
Picking up the account in John 10:33, the Jews told Jesus; we are stoning you because "You, who are a man, declare Yourself to be God.”

Jesus tells them to recall scripture where God said you are gods.
Jesus telling them if God called them gods to whom the word came?" If this very Word is now among you? The Jews were chosen to receive the scripture and the Word.

Then what about the One whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world? How then can you accuse Me of blasphemy for stating that I am the Son of God?
 
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1gr8bldr

Senior Member
Picking up the account in John 10:33, the Jews told Jesus; we are stoning you because "You, who are a man, declare Yourself to be God.”

Jesus tells them to recall scripture where God said you are gods.
Jesus telling them if he called them gods to whom the word came?" If this very Word is now among you? The Jews were chosen to receive the scripture and the Word.

Then what about the One whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world? How then can you accuse Me of blasphemy for stating that I am the Son of God?
That is a bad translation. "Declare" implies he said so. "Maketh" is the proper translation. And it fits the text because the context is that he was doing miracles. The entire miracle aspect was not to show off, but to prove he was sent, as the scriptures had said he would. Hmmmm, declare is almost corrupt. The greek in no way implies this. Here is the proper translation. "because you, a man, maketh yourself God". Maketh implies this is their deduction, not his claim
 
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Thread starter #53
That is a bad translation. "Declare" implies he said so. "Maketh" is the proper translation. And it fits the text because the context is that he was doing miracles. The entire miracle aspect was not to show off, but to prove he was sent, as the scriptures had said he would. Hmmmm, declare is almost corrupt. The greek in no way implies this. Here is the proper translation. "because you, a man, maketh yourself God". Maketh implies this is their deduction, not his claim
Regardless of the translation it was the Jew's deduction and not Jesus' claim. His claim was that he was the Son of God.
 

Madman

Senior Member
Not sure, but all the Trinitarian churches are limbs and the "Roman" catholic church is the trunk
You have a right to your own opinion but not your own facts. Get back to me when you have the answer.
 

Madman

Senior Member
Wasn't it formalized in the fourth century? Oneness was formalized in 1914.
If that is correct, I'm waiting for 1gr8bldr, then there was no such thing as the Roman Catholic church. The world wide church was still together and formulating the language on how to describe it's doctrine.
 
Thread starter #58
If that is correct, I'm waiting for 1gr8bldr, then there was no such thing as the Roman Catholic church. The world wide church was still together and formulating the language on how to describe it's doctrine.
I always thought the Roman Catholic Church was this "world" Church. That the others split from the Roman Catholic or "world" Church.

Was the first major split the East-West Schism of 1054 the start of the actual Roman Catholic Church?

It all sounds pretty Roman to me from the get-go. From the Council of Nicea. Constantine organized this council. From what I gather Constantine wasn't even a Christian then. That he didn't convert until his deathbed. That could be speculation as we may not know.

It's kind of sad to think that a lot of what every Christian believes came from a council started by a man that may not have been a Christian.
That he may have did it for political reasons realizing Christianity was the most believed religion in his country.

Not that he voted in that first council but he did preside over it. I could assume that even if he wasn't Christian, God could still call on him to organize this first council.
Realizing that he would have his effectual calling later in life. I would think a future Christian is always a Christian, he just doesn't know it yet.
 

Madman

Senior Member
I always thought the Roman Catholic Church was this "world" Church. That the others split from the Roman Catholic or "world" Church.

Was the first major split the East-West Schism of 1054 the start of the actual Roman Catholic Church?

It all sounds pretty Roman to me from the get-go. From the Council of Nicea. Constantine organized this council. From what I gather Constantine wasn't even a Christian then. That he didn't convert until his deathbed. That could be speculation as we may not know.

It's kind of sad to think that a lot of what every Christian believes came from a council started by a man that may not have been a Christian.
That he may have did it for political reasons realizing Christianity was the most believed religion in his country.

Not that he voted in that first council but he did preside over it. I could assume that even if he wasn't Christian, God could still call on him to organize this first council.
Realizing that he would have his effectual calling later in life. I would think a future Christian is always a Christian, he just doesn't know it yet.
It is evident from 1gr8bldr you need to be very careful as to where you get you info.

The councils were called to combat heresy in the church. Constantine wanted the church in the East, Constantinople, and the church in the West, Rome, to be in union on the doctrines and called a meeting of ALL the Church's bishops to decide on the Arian heresy.

The schism of 1054, I would argue, was the "Church" setting the church at Rome out until it got it's act together. Everyone loves to throw rocks at the Roman Catholics because Protestantism has taught that they are the "Great Satan", when in reality they are clueless what Rome believes. I don't hear any of them going after the Eastern Orthodox Church, or the Coptic Church, or the Russian Church, or the Scotch Anglican Church.

The Council of Nicaea was called to combat the very heresy that 1gr8bldr is tauting. The word homoousios was used, claiming the Jesus and the Father ore of one essence.

Ignorance can cause great messes.

P.S. I am not Roman Catholic, and they are not the Great Satan.
 

Madman

Senior Member
Not that he voted in that first council but he did preside over it. I could assume that even if he wasn't Christian, God could still call on him to organize this first council.
Realizing that he would have his effectual calling later in life. I would think a future Christian is always a Christian, he just doesn't know it yet.
Constantine called the council of Nicaea but he did not preside over it.
 
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