* UPDATE* Muzzleloader for deer question..

[krizia829]

If you're getting 3-4" groups from a ML at 100 yards, you're doing fine. You are also comparing a CVA to a Traditions. Different Guns, different barrels, different everything. Sounds like you have a sweet shooting CVA and a Traditions that just isn't quite that good. Don't fret about it, go shoot deer. The deer won't know the difference.

There are just too many variables (more than with center fire rifles) to work through. Can you get this Traditions to shoot 1-2" groups? Likely you can, but you'll spend a lot of time, effort and $$ working through combinations of powder, primers, bullets and cleaning regimens to get there and that is not counting Scopes and rings, triggers and rifle bedding/stock. Don't forget to try it with the ramrod in and with it removed. Are the thimbles mounted tightly? Is the ramrod held firmly? Lot of extra stuff to vibrate with a ML.

This is the BP rifle I'm hunting with this year. I'm happy with a 5-6" group at 100 yards and the deer won't know the differenceView attachment 941568

I know the deer won't know the difference. What I want is consistency with my m.l and it does not shoot consistent. I don't want a 5-6" group at 100 yards. That can mean a complete miss or a horrible hit, possibly wounding the deer depending on where i'm trying to aim whether it's a behind the shoulder shot or a neck shot through an opening at that distance. I understand what you are saying but I want consistency, not an eh i'm sure i'll hit somewhere there kind of gun

 

[Mr Bya Lungshot]

Hard to explain but I believe with a muzzleloader that you must
“follow through” with your shot.

 

[leoparddog]

I know the deer won't know the difference. What I want is consistency with my m.l and it does not shoot consistent. I don't want a 5-6" group at 100 yards. That can mean a complete miss or a horrible hit, possibly wounding the deer depending on where i'm trying to aim whether it's a behind the shoulder shot or a neck shot through an opening at that distance. I understand what you are saying but I want consistency, not an eh i'm sure i'll hit somewhere there kind of gun

Thanks and I do understand. What I'm trying to convey is that muzzleloaders have many more variables than center fire rifles when trying for consistency. This is not something that you will likely get figured out before ML week this year unless you are very lucky. I've been shooting ML rifles since the late 1980s and it can be frustrating to get them to shoot the way you want them to. Very few of them are built to be 2" rifles as most buyers are not willing to spend $400 on a gun compared to a centerfire where many would consider $400 at the cheap end of the spectrum. CVA and Traditions are aiming for the casual ML shooter and "keep it affordable" is their mantra - not quality is #1

The way to accuracy with a ML is to change one thing at at time, shoot a group, evaluate, clean, change one thing, shoot a group, evaluate and repeat. The number of things you can possibly change with a ML are much greater than with a centerfire rifle where once you have a decent scope and mount, you try different ammo to find what it likes.

Come up with a cleaning regimen that you can do consistently, a load you can load consistently, use the same pressure when seating the bullet every time (this matters a bunch) and start varying the powder or the bullet or the primer after you have eliminated loose screws, ram rods, pipes, scopes etc.

What works for one rifle will most likely not be "the cure" for yours unless you are lucky. I wish you the best of luck and a successful deer season.

v/r,
LD

 

[zmgsvt]

Have the same gun. Try blackhorn 209 110gr and 265gs harvester scorpion pr gold's with cci shotshell primers. Best load I've found so far. If nothing else try blackhorn and a good primer.

 

[krizia829]

Thanks and I do understand. What I'm trying to convey is that muzzleloaders have many more variables than center fire rifles when trying for consistency. This is not something that you will likely get figured out before ML week this year unless you are very lucky. I've been shooting ML rifles since the late 1980s and it can be frustrating to get them to shoot the way you want them to. Very few of them are built to be 2" rifles as most buyers are not willing to spend $400 on a gun compared to a centerfire where many would consider $400 at the cheap end of the spectrum. CVA and Traditions are aiming for the casual ML shooter and "keep it affordable" is their mantra - not quality is #1

The way to accuracy with a ML is to change one thing at at time, shoot a group, evaluate, clean, change one thing, shoot a group, evaluate and repeat. The number of things you can possibly change with a ML are much greater than with a centerfire rifle where once you have a decent scope and mount, you try different ammo to find what it likes.

Come up with a cleaning regimen that you can do consistently, a load you can load consistently, use the same pressure when seating the bullet every time (this matters a bunch) and start varying the powder or the bullet or the primer after you have eliminated loose screws, ram rods, pipes, scopes etc.

What works for one rifle will most likely not be "the cure" for yours unless you are lucky. I wish you the best of luck and a successful deer season.

v/r,
LD

Yeah that's very true I just have to keep going until I find the right load. I normally hunt with centerfire but I wanted to get out there earlier and get some more time in the woods! Good luck to you as well and thanks for the info!

 

[Mr Bya Lungshot]

Yeah that's very true I just have to keep going until I find the right load. I normally hunt with centerfire but I wanted to get out there earlier and get some more time in the woods! Good luck to you as well and thanks for the info!

That girl is fired up!!!!!!!

 

[Rabun]

My .50 cal 700 ML likes a 350 grain TC maxi hunter over 100gr of loose pyrodex and #10 CCI percussion caps....nothing fancy. The maxi hunters are pre-lubed, load easy and pack a punch. I've gone through many different projectiles and propellants (pellets) and found this combination to be very repeatable and accurate. Of course, results may vary. I would still replace those see thru's though and get that scope lower to the barrel axis. Scopes are most accurate if adjustments are in the mid range. The higher up the scope, the further out of mid range you will be...if that make sense. Not to mention cheek weld issues that have been addressed earlier.

Hope you get it dialed in and put some meat on the ground!

 

[krizia829]

My .50 cal 700 ML likes a 350 grain TC maxi hunter over 100gr of loose pyrodex and #10 CCI percussion caps....nothing fancy. The maxi hunters are pre-lubed, load easy and pack a punch. I've gone through many different projectiles and propellants (pellets) and found this combination to be very repeatable and accurate. Of course, results may vary. I would still replace those see thru's though and get that scope lower to the barrel axis. Scopes are most accurate if adjustments are in the mid range. The higher up the scope, the further out of mid range you will be...if that make sense. Not to mention cheek weld issues that have been addressed earlier.

Hope you get it dialed in and put some meat on the ground!

Thank you! Yeah I am going to swap out the rings first and see how much of a difference that makes for me and then check out the different loads. I know a couple of people who like the loose pyrodex better than the pellets, being that it's a more precise/adjustable measurement. Might have to give that a try as well!
Thank you!

 

[krizia829]

That girl is fired up!!!!!!!

I just want some meat in the freezer and another nice trophy on the wall! Lol! I had a baby last year and couldn't hunt so i'm having hunting withdraws haha

 

[krizia829]

So I went ahead and swapped the rings from the see-thru rings to a medium, steel set of rings! I had to remove the iron sights due to the scope touching, which I figured I won't need the irons anyways. I shouldered the rifle and it lines up perfect! I will go to my local bass pro this weekend and buy the things I need and try it out! Here it is updated!

 

[Rabun]

So I went ahead and swapped the rings from the see-thru rings to a medium, steel set of rings! I had to remove the iron sights due to the scope touching, which I figured I won't need the irons anyways. I shouldered the rifle and it lines up perfect! I will go to my local bass pro this weekend and buy the things I need and try it out! Here it is updated!
View attachment 942155

Looking good! Let us know what load she shoots best.

 

[Deernut3]

If you have not tried the 250 grain Hornady SST with the red sabot that Academy sells I would highly recommend trying it and building your powder charge around it. I was in your same position a few years back and a co-worker recommended them and boy was he right. I shoot them over three 50 grain pyrodex pellets.

 

[leoparddog]

Looking good!
When shooting from a rest be sure to rest the gun on the forearm or in your hand consistently. Resting it on the ram rod can cause inconsistency.

 

[krizia829]

If you have not tried the 250 grain Hornady SST with the red sabot that Academy sells I would highly recommend trying it and building your powder charge around it. I was in your same position a few years back and a co-worker recommended them and boy was he right. I shoot them over three 50 grain pyrodex pellets.

I was actually looking into those exact ones! Someone on this thread recommended it as well and I went online and looked at reviews as well. I will give those a try with either white shots or triple seven pellets and see how it shoots. Not too sure on which primer to use yet

 

[krizia829]

Looking good!
When shooting from a rest be sure to rest the gun on the forearm or in your hand consistently. Resting it on the ram rod can cause inconsistency.

Will do thank you!

 

[Deernut3]

I was actually looking into those exact ones! Someone on this thread recommended it as well and I went online and looked at reviews as well. I will give those a try with either white shots or triple seven pellets and see how it shoots. Not too sure on which primer to use yet

Triple 7 has it's own primer which is the one I use with Pyrodex or Triple 7 pellets. FYI on Hogdens website the ballistic data for Pyrodex and Triple 7 pellets is identical.

 

[twincedargap]

Triple 7 has it's own primer which is the one I use with Pyrodex or Triple 7 pellets. FYI on Hogdens website the ballistic data for Pyrodex and Triple 7 pellets is identical.

Interesting though, the pellets are different lengths which put the bullet in a different barrel position. I only noticed when my ramrod marker didn’t line up when I ran out of pellets and used the new 777’s. My point of impact was off also, so I’m sure to shoot only one brand going fwd.