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When Christians are losing the argument
- Thread starter atlashunter
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atlashunter
Senior Member
If you can find a single instance of me claiming proof or knowledge with absolute certainty that there are no gods then I'll donate $100 to the church or charity of your choice. What I have said is that the evidence or the lack thereof is exactly what we would expect to see in a world absent deities. The bible says prayer in Jesus name works. If there is a god and if the bible is true then that claim should be demonstrably true. If there is no god or if the bible is false that claim should be demonstrably false and it is demonstrably false. We should expect that preachers who go baptizing people in waters with crocs might get eaten. That's what we see. It doesn't prove that there is no god but it's what we would expect if there wasn't one and not what we would expect if the bible were true. Many similar instances of this.
Now to bring home the point, just how confident are you that Poseidon doesn't exist? 100%? Less? Where is your proof? I'm equally confident that neither Poseidon nor Yahweh exist based on equally lacking evidence for both. Not 100% but the probability in their favor is so miniscule as to be just shy of zero. Now if you have good verifiable evidence that actually makes a convincing case against the existence of Poseidon that wouldn't apply equally to Yahweh, I'd love to see it.
Spotlite
Resident Homesteader
Arguing from Ignorance - is a fallacy in formal logic. It asserts that a proposition is true because it has not yet been proven false or a proposition is false because it has not yet been proven true.
atlashunter
Senior Member
"How could something come from nothing?"
atlashunter
Senior Member
"You need the guidance of the holy spirit to understand." 
Israel
BANNED
Don't worry...I'll believe you.
WaltL1
Senior Member
And whats the big difference between math, science, economics and God that allows one to "prove a negative" with them that cant be done with a god(God)?
WaltL1
Senior Member
I wouldn't. He seems pretty shady to me.
Spotlite
Resident Homesteader
Faith.
With math, science and economics........ measurable. You can flip a quarter 500 times and it land on heads 500 times and have confidence that there is no tales.
God is immeasurable. Something immeasurable cannot be proven or disproven. I cant prove to you that there is a God, but I can have faith to believe it. You cant prove to me that there is not a God, but you can be confident that there is not one.
Spotlite
Resident Homesteader
I don't recall saying that you have.......you don't have a case of the guilty dog barking do you
Wow.........I actually had to look up Poseidon........I hadn't forgotten what that was................There is a point there.
The only thing I can offer you is simply........... I don't believe it. I don`t believe in Bigfoot, pink purple flying ponies, or the tooth fairy. I don't try to rule them out, don't search for articles of sinking ships to blame on Poseidon, don`t look for articles to blame missing goats on Bigfoot, hadn't looked for any articles about some unidentified flying pony looking objects, and didn't second guess the reason I had to place $2 under my sons pillow if the tooth fairy existed.
I just don`t believe in them and could care less if they did or didn't exist and don't care if you believe me or not.......................that case does equally apply to God................but for some reason, God simply must be proven to not exist in order to complete that "confidence" that resulted from most likely.
atlashunter
Senior Member
I don't recall saying that you have.......you don't have a case of the guilty dog barking do you
Wow.........I actually had to look up Poseidon........I hadn't forgotten what that was................There is a point there.
The only thing I can offer you is simply........... I don't believe it. I don`t believe in Bigfoot, pink purple flying ponies, or the tooth fairy. I don't try to rule them out, don't search for articles of sinking ships to blame on Poseidon, don`t look for articles to blame missing goats on Bigfoot, hadn't looked for any articles about some unidentified flying pony looking objects, and didn't second guess the reason I had to place $2 under my sons pillow if the tooth fairy existed.
I just don`t believe in them and could care less if they did or didn't exist and don't care if you believe me or not.......................that case does equally apply to God................but for some reason, God simply must be proven to not exist in order to complete that "confidence" that resulted from most likely.
And the ancient Greeks didn't concern themselves with Yahweh as much as the more prominent gods in their culture for the same reason. When the believers in Yahweh dwindle the way the believers in Poseidon did then Yahweh will be just as relegated to the dust bin of history. It is we who give gods their relevance, not the other way around.
If anyone is insisting that god must be proven not to exist to be confident he doesn't that would be you. Like I said before, I'm no more out to prove god doesn't exist than any other figure from mythology. The absence of evidence which we are promised by the same book that proclaims his existence in the first place speaks for itself. What I find more interesting is why some make a special exemption for certain figures even while acknowledging the case for them is no better than the case for any of the others.
ambush80
Senior Member
ambush80
Senior Member
Then we will classify the Bible properly as Mythology.
Spotlite
Resident Homesteader
Lol that one went over you like whoosh!!!
Keep flipping those quarters and eventually it will land on tails!!! Even the weather man gets burned on most likely Lol.
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Spotlite
Resident Homesteader
You are for freedom of choice on most any topic brought up. Lately I’ve shifted to agreeing with you on a lot of topics that allow people such freedom to decide for themselves how they want to live and or end their lives.
Yet somehow when it comes to allowing people the freedom of choice to believe in whatever “figure” they choose, that choice is challenged with something such as you bringing home the point.
Not exactly sure who asked the question recently along the lines of “why can’t I believe that there’s something bigger than me and not believe in God”
Turn that around, why I can’t I believe in God without making a case against Poseidon?
ambush80
Senior Member
So what do you do, assume that he's always wrong? If the weather man says thunderstorms do you act as if he's 100% wrong? If the weather man says "The dead will rise from their graves." do you assume that he's right? It seems we're drilling down on why we should believe something or not. Why should I believe that Jesus rose from the dead like you do?
bullethead
Of the hard cast variety
Ponder this for a minute or two.
Think about all the reasons why the ancient Greeks KNEW and believed wholeheartedly that not only Poseidon existed but all the other gods they worshiped existed too. And, all the stories(testaments) of how those gods were involved in their every day lives literally interacting with the people and also both for and against the "good" gods vs the "bad" gods.
Now think about all the reasons that you can think of as to why those stories make for pretty cool reading but also the reasons that you can come up with to dismiss those stories and gods.
The people who do not believe in your god use all those same reasons but take it one god further than you do.
Spotlite
Resident Homesteader
I have no issues with that.
The reason that I dismiss the rest is I don’t believe in them. I didn’t need anything else to determine that.
bullethead
Of the hard cast variety
How would you handle a person that tells you that the ONLY way for your happy eternal life after death was for you to acceptl their god(s) as lord and savior and you must believe in those gods in order to do so? What if they counter any different point of view conversation that you converse with them with a verse from their religious book and the threats of an eternal punishment if you do not convert?
bullethead
Of the hard cast variety
And, you were not brought up to believe in them.
In my case, like many others, I was raised in a strong Christian family in a strong Christian town in a strong Christian county in a strong Christian state in a strong Christian nation.
It was easy to not believe in gods that I knew nothing about.
It was not so easy to question everything that I have been told and taught about the god that I was raised upon.
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