Will Christ reign forever?

[Artfuldodger]

Some passages say he will while others have him returning the reign to his Father.

Daniel 7:14
And He was given dominion, glory, and kingship, so that every people, nation, and language should serve Him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and His kingdom is one that will never be destroyed.

1 Corinthians 15:24
Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power.

1 Corinthians 15:28
Then, when all things are under his authority, the Son will put himself under God’s authority, so that God, who gave his Son authority over all things, will be utterly supreme over everything everywhere.

Maybe one is a physical reign and the other is a spiritual reign.

 

[gordon 2]

Well if you understand that the Son was ever with the Father and that the Son and the Father are one... hum...

I like to go back to the beginning like to the fundamentals of when God walked with man, before man took the law away for God into his own hands. I think the goal might be to go back to the very beginning before the fall... when God "walked" with man, and man knew no shame or-- a separation between the Father and the Son? I personally think that the sin motivators within our corruptible flesh still blinds us despite our born again spiritual lives to understand fully what we call the relationship of the Father to the Son presently. When we walk again with renewed bodies and with God then it will surely by evident... who's who in the all in all?

 

[Artfuldodger]

Well if you understand that the Son was ever with the Father and that the Son and the Father are one... hum...

I like to go back to the beginning like to the fundamentals of when God walked with man, before man took the law away for God into his own hands. I think the goal might be to go back to the very beginning before the fall... when God "walked" with man, and man knew no shame or-- a separation between the Father and the Son? I personally think that the sin motivators within our corruptible flesh still blinds us despite our born again spiritual lives to understand fully what we call the relationship of the Father to the Son presently. When we walk again with renewed bodies and with God then it will surely by evident... who's who in the all in all?

I can see it from the Trinity aspect but 1 Corinthians 15:24 specifies the Son hands over the Kingdom to the Father.

If it's unity related and "all is in all", then at that point does the Son no longer exist? Mission accomplished, absorbed back into the Godhead?

1 Corinthians 15:28
When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.

Perhaps the key part is the "so that God may be all in all." In that respect Christ is still ruling, yet he is subject to Him who put everything under him.

 

[gordon 2]

How about: When the time of the Gentiles is finalized and the Jew return, then Jesus' purpose of getting them grafted in will be accomplished. Thereafter God will be all in all.

 

[hobbs27]

Yes. Ephesians 3:21

 

[Artfuldodger]

Yes. Ephesians 3:21

Which would be more correct;

to him be glory in the church and in Christ Jesus throughout all generations, forever and ever. Amen.

to Him be the glory in the church and in Christ Jesus throughout all generations, forever and ever. Amen.

Is it him in the Church or Him in the church and in Christ?

 

[Artfuldodger]

Yes. Ephesians 3:21

I know we've discussed generations lasting forever and ever on the earth. Just trying to visualize the Father's role after Jesus turned the Kingdom over to his Father.

 

[Artfuldodger]

Ecclesiastes 1:4
Generations come and generations go, but the earth remains forever.

Psalm 104:5
He set the earth on its foundations, never to be moved.

Aren't there some Old Testament verses about an eternal earthly restoration? Livestock grazing in eternal pastures or something from Jeremiah or Isaiah?

 

[Artfuldodger]

Following the word "Him in Ephesians 3:20, Him is God and thus should be capitalized.

Ephesians 3:20
Now to Him who is able to do infinitely more than all we ask or imagine, according to His power that is at work within us,

verse 21;
to Him be the glory in the church and in Christ Jesus throughout all generations, forever and ever. Amen.

The Unity stands no matter what and Christ's Kingdom last forever and ever on the earth. The unity between Father and Son remains but the two are somehow dividing their roles with the Son keeping the Kingdom. Maybe

 

[1gr8bldr]

Some passages say he will while others have him returning the reign to his Father.

Daniel 7:14
And He was given dominion, glory, and kingship, so that every people, nation, and language should serve Him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and His kingdom is one that will never be destroyed.

1 Corinthians 15:24
Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power.

1 Corinthians 15:28
Then, when all things are under his authority, the Son will put himself under God’s authority, so that God, who gave his Son authority over all things, will be utterly supreme over everything everywhere.

Maybe one is a physical reign and the other is a spiritual reign.

I think the Daniel prophesy is intended for those whom are used to the king or good days eventually dying. And it also is for us as we see more than they could. I don't think it imply that he is the supreme authority because of it's assumed that "he was given" this means that there is yet a supreme authority. I read the Corinthians verses over and over, because the "will put" used in the verse implys that he is not at the moment subject to God. So I went to the greek... and nothing justifies the "will put". My opinion is that it is not a handing over of authority or will [now] put himself under God's authority, but rather mental subjection that this is yours. And why???? Is this not assumed? This is the interesting part. Reading between the lines. Why is this spoken? Because of the overall bible context. Would Eve hand it over and be subject to God?

 

[Artfuldodger]

I think the Daniel prophesy is intended for those whom are used to the king or good days eventually dying. And it also is for us as we see more than they could. I don't think it imply that he is the supreme authority because of it's assumed that "he was given" this means that there is yet a supreme authority. I read the Corinthians verses over and over, because the "will put" used in the verse implys that he is not at the moment subject to God. So I went to the greek... and nothing justifies the "will put". My opinion is that it is not a handing over of authority or will [now] put himself under God's authority, but rather mental subjection that this is yours. And why???? Is this not assumed? This is the interesting part. Reading between the lines. Why is this spoken? Because of the overall bible context. Would Eve hand it over and be subject to God?

I'm not understanding your interpretation on this verse;

1 Corinthians 15:28
When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.

Want God eventually be all in all when His enemies and death are gone?

 

[Artfuldodger]

If Jesus isn't subject to God now, will he ever be? When will he stop doing the will of the Father?

 

[1gr8bldr]

I'm not understanding your interpretation on this verse;

1 Corinthians 15:28
When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.

Want God eventually be all in all when His enemies and death are gone?

The interpretation used of this verse seems to imply that after he does this, he will then be subject to God. That's incorrect. And I think the writer realized the potential confusion of this and attempted to fix it in the following verses. No one will ever have authority over the one whom gives authority

 

[kmh1031]

If all scripture is inspired of god...2 Tim 3:16-17 then are you saying god made a mistake via this scripture and he had man correct?

But you are right the one sending, as noted in John 17:3 clearly shows who sent Jesus, and has the Authority....to send him
So these scripture align well with 1Cor 15 when Jesus will be made subject to God..

 

[Artfuldodger]

The interpretation used of this verse seems to imply that after he does this, he will then be subject to God. That's incorrect. And I think the writer realized the potential confusion of this and attempted to fix it in the following verses. No one will ever have authority over the one whom gives authority

Paul wasn't trying to correct what he said. He was just saying that the Father had given Jesus the authority & power over everything but the Father.

 

[1gr8bldr]

If all scripture is inspired of god...2 Tim 3:16-17 then are you saying god made a mistake via this scripture and he had man correct?

But you are right the one sending, as noted in John 17:3 clearly shows who sent Jesus, and has the Authority....to send him
So these scripture align well with 1Cor 15 when Jesus will be made subject to God..

Only saying that the interpretation is skewed. Nothing in the original greek implies that he [now] will submit/subject to God

 

[Artfuldodger]

Only saying that the interpretation is skewed. Nothing in the original greek implies that he [now] will submit/subject to God

I was trying to think of an example of the Son submitting to God. Was thinking of a husband going on a trip and giving his wife "power" of attorney. She could do what ever she wanted. Sell the house, sell the family business, adopt the kids out, etc.
Yet she could only do it using the power of her husband who was in constant contact with her. She could only do what her husband commanded.

She had total authority over everything but her husband. But then I thought to myself, "what more it there?" What else does her husband have that she can't control? His mind?

So if Jesus did have his Father's authority, what does that mean? Everything he did was by the power of his Father.

 

[Artfuldodger]

Only saying that the interpretation is skewed. Nothing in the original greek implies that he [now] will submit/subject to God

Has the Son ever submitted to God?

 

[1gr8bldr]

Has the Son ever submitted to God?

Always. I am not sure if your understanding me at all? Think about the over bearing context of the fall of man.... Eve did not want to subject/submit herself to God. She wanted to be like God, his rival. Jesus subjected himself to the Father in all things.

 

[Artfuldodger]

Always. I am not sure if your understanding me at all? Think about the over bearing context of the fall of man.... Eve did not want to subject/submit herself to God. She wanted to be like God, his rival. Jesus subjected himself to the Father in all things.

LOL, I thought I must be missing something. I was way over thinking submission to an all powerful God. In other words, Jesus was "already" submissive to the Father. Therefore he couldn't put himself under the Father because he already was.