Buckman18
Senior Member
This is true. Not sure if it’s appropriate to name them, but the local guys in Habersham, Towns, Rabun, and White are top notch.
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Dogging Bear Quota Hunt
- Thread starter humdandy
- Start date
This is true. Not sure if it’s appropriate to name them, but the local guys in Habersham, Towns, Rabun, and White are top notch.
Respectfully, I couldn’t disagree more about cutting back deer season on the NF. If the deer limit in the mountains is two, twelve, or forty, it’s not going to make much of a difference. The number of doe days in the mountains are, thankfully, so few, that no one is going to legally harvest many does anyway. In the lower elevations of the mountain counties, there are plenty of deer around the settlement, just not up on the high ridges of the NF. And, let’s not forget that the overwhelming majority of the NF that is more than a 1/4 mile deep NEVER sees a deer hunter. That said, I’ve killed many a mature buck on those high ridges, what they lack in numbers they make up for in age structure. It’s lonely at the top in the cold of December, but the eatin’ is good.
Reducing hunter opportunity in the mountains is not the answer. The NF gets so little hunting pressure, hunters impact is negligible. For those of us who also hunt the Mtn of NC, most would agree that the GA mountains have far more deer, even now, than NC. The NC season is a whopping 3 weeks and has been for decades. I think GA has the hunting seasons set perfectly. Just need to add spring bear, and get rid of more hogs.
I guess it must depend on our own points of view. When I grew up we had no deer in western NC. It was big news if someone saw a buck. Now, Macon county has far better deer hunting than I see here. I actually prefer hunting up home over here because of it. Less pressure and more food equal better hunting. Macon county doesn’t have more food, but they sure have a lot less pressure.
I’m not saying deer don’t exist still but they have fallen off drastically in the last 15-20 years. The only consistent is bear numbers exploding. I don’t agree that hogs have much to do with it. They’ve been here for longer than most are aware of. They were here in certain places when deer were thicker. They have spread out in other areas they weren’t typically in but that’s about it.
Here’s another question I’ve always wondered? Why spend so much time and effort trying to establish deer when they are never going to thrive in the mountains anyway. Seems it would make more sense to work with what we have and have proven we can support. Bear and hog country is what this is, it will support them in large numbers, why not cultivate it instead of eradicating them to make room for something else. Just something I’ve never understood.
tree cutter 08
Senior Member
I like bear meat better than deer. Don't care much for the hogs. With that said I'd rather hunt deer any day of the week. I just don't get into bear hunting like deer hunting. I think the vast majority of folks that hunt the mountains feel the same way. I will agree with you that we have to many bears and I do think that's a good portion of the problem. The deer population just can't stand 2 different predators. If either bears or yotes were gone I think the population would grow again. Yotes are here to stay but bear numbers can be controlled better. I hope the dogging season goes well and everyone has fun but it's not the way to get numbers down. If it was nc wouldn't have as many bears as it does. Supposedly they have about 4 times the population as ga if the numbers are accurate.
Buckman18
Senior Member
Again, I disagree with the premise of your message. I've never deer hunted in Macon County, and have only bear hunted there if that's where the dogs ended up after being turned loose near Buck Creek, but I have been all over Clay and Cherokee Counties. There used to be scads of deer in Fires Creek and Buck Creek. My parents tell me stories from the 60's-70's of seeing dozens when riding through Fires Creek, and all the campsites around Buck Creek being filled up with deer hanging in many on opening week. Today, there are very few deer in either of those mountain ranges and, instead, plenty around the settlement. Bears are all over those areas now, and then weren't nearly as common.
In Georgia, same story regarding Chattahoochee, Swallow Creek, Lake Burton and other nearby WMA's. You should take some time to research the harvest records on these WMA's before the late 80's, and I think you will see that your claim about deer never going to thrive in the mountains is simply not accurate. Bears are cool. We value bears. They certainly have their place. But good deer hunting is what the overwhelming majority of us in the mountains prefer, and would prefer a bear sighting as an occasional bonus instead of the expectation they have become.
greg_n_clayton
Senior Member
Tell me where it says I can hunt and take hogs with dogs on USFS land please.
Again, same thing here. Hearing second hand isn’t research it’s wives tales. I have equally as many resources that say different about the same areas you speak of. I didn’t hear people, I grew up in it. Buck creek is loaded with deer right now! Actually, I have a friend who buys his out of state license to deer hunt where you say there aren’t deer. That area really doesn’t count anyway because Rainbow springs is a huge tract that was privately ran and hunted for the last 45 years. That I know of for certain. It’s kinda an outlier when you talk about mountain hunting because it’s not normal circumstances. Heck we never used to have to break dogs off deer cause there weren’t any to run anyway!
I think old management numbers show there were some deer before the bear explosion, they weren’t thick, just at a normal level. Now they are extremely thin. What was it 2 or 3 years ago, only like 15 bucks taken off 4 or 5 mountain WMAS combined. That’s like around 100,000 acres with 15 bucks tagged out. I can kill that many in Clay county in a week now.
I thought everyone knew the bear numbers are wrong. Have you actually been and watched how they surmise these numbers? It’s laughable to say the least.
With all due respect, I think your view of history is clouded by what you want to see or want me to see. Every historical book states that deer were basically eradicated in our area during the fur market days. Every one on every side of where you claim there used to be scores of deer says they didn’t even know people deer hunted because there just weren’t many. I’m gonna guess your relatives are talking about down around Chunky Gal and the bottoms seeing deer in the early 90’s in those fields.???
That’s right after the major restocking and closing of deer season because the biologists feared the deer wouldn’t survive.
Didn’t north Georgia have a similar restocking by Smithgal? Because deer numbers were obsolete? Maybe 60’s or something like that. You can’t just choose certain time frames because they line up with the data you want to portray. There’s always been an ebb and flo of game. Mostly due to food, habitat, and predators. We can’t do much to alter habitat now that the feds put a stop to that. The mast is always changing some years it’s great and some years not. The only thing you can do easily is control predators. Bear, coyotes, and you and I.
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greg_n_clayton
Senior Member
Ok. If I am reading correctly, I can only kill the pig if it is "training season " and it is open season for other game ? I will hunt me up a calendar and match the training dates with small game dates.
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That's correct.
greg_n_clayton
Senior Member
I edited my last post about matching up the training and small game dates.
The game management sections of State are charged with keeping all wildlife numbers in balance. That’s the whole reason we invented the Game Warden position along with seasons and bag limits. Throughout history at different times animals were hunted for food, trade, depredation, and sport. At this time we are in need of more take of certain animals and less take of another to help regulate numbers. It’s a fairly simple concept. Yes, hunting bear with dogs can be a highly productive method and help with that problem. Still hunting alone just isn’t getting the job done.
Another note about population numbers. Don’t put to much stock in population estimates. They are often wrong. I was reading a study about some Gorilla that many more scientists and biologists were working on than a state department employs. They estimated that there were only like a 1,000 left and on the brink of extinction. Then they found like 5,000 or something. It’s been to long since I read it but it was a huge margin of error!
Another note about population numbers. Don’t put to much stock in population estimates. They are often wrong. I was reading a study about some Gorilla that many more scientists and biologists were working on than a state department employs. They estimated that there were only like a 1,000 left and on the brink of extinction. Then they found like 5,000 or something. It’s been to long since I read it but it was a huge margin of error!
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Have you had confrontations with turkey hunters? I don’t see anyone hunting the mountains anymore. I see a few opening weekend and maybe one or two when they are gobbling but Ive saw as many hog hunters as turkey hunters the past few years. Why does one take precedence over the other. If turkey hunters wanted more turkeys, it looks like they would welcome hog hunters. But, it’s not about bettering the wildlife. It’s about me me me me me.....
tree cutter 08
Senior Member
You are correct about the conflicts in both sides. That area gets dogged pretty hard seems like. I was on wildcat couple years ago early August towards the back. Seen 6 or 7 trucks with dog boxes parked that morning. All had nc tags. Didn't think dog season was open but don't keep track either.
jbogg
Senior Member
As has been said many times, the dog Hunt need not be scheduled when it is. Back it up a few weeks and there would be a lot less Bow hunters raising Cane. One of the main reasons the DNR stated as to doing away with the May training season was due to so many private property owner complaints of dogs on their property. I have heard and read of many a bear race going for several miles. When the dogs get turned loose on Trail Ridge road which is in the center of Chattahoochee WMA it’s only 1 to 2 miles up the hill and you are crossing the Appalachian Trail and off Of the WMA. Can any of the dog hunters on here explain to me how you call off a pack of dogs once they have left the property where they are permitted to run? It’s an honest question as I truly have no idea. Seems like a recipe for even more conflict. There are lots of weekend backpackers on the AT that time of year.
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jbogg
Senior Member
That’s a fair answer, and I appreciate your response. Make no mistake, my problem is not with hound hunters at all, but rather with the DNR‘s decision to schedule the hunt so early. One of the hound hunters on this thread even commented on how tough the heat can be on dogs. Pushing the hunt back four weeks would result in cooler temperatures For hunters as well as dogs, and the Bears are even more active In late October as they are deep into hyperphagia and moving more than ever in search of food. I have never known any hound hunters, but I have always been intrigued by it. There is a group on YouTube called “The Untamed” who put out some very good content. Their dog hunting videos are excellent.
I do not like to see anything that divides hunters. There are less of us every year according to hunting license sales, and if that does not change I fear that one day in the not so distant future our kids and grandchildren may not have the same opportunities that we do to enjoy hunting on public ground.
livinoutdoors
Goatherding Non-socialist Bohemian Luddite
Jbogg this last point you make is the most important imho. It might not feel like it when people are fightin over public land spots but hunting and the culture and values that surround it are quickly dissapearing. If you have never lived/worked near an urban/suburban area you might not see it but most young people want nothing to do with hunting and hunters. Heck they dont even want you to have the guns you hunt with. Small country towns with good people raisin good kids will be out voted by the masses of anti hunters bein raised in the cities. It seems like part of the problems the dog hunters face is the new people to the mountain communities who, to say the least see any kind of hunter as an ol hillbilly redneck that just wants to murder lil cute animals. You add in the fact the dogs sometimes cross property lines an here we go with calls and complaints. I support private property, but i dont feel like this would have been an issue a generation or so ago. I live in a foothills/upper piedmont county and all the old fellas that hunt talk about how you could just walk over to so and so place and hunt and not worry about it.this is most likely gone from most places in the south or anywhere. I do feel like they could have timed the dog hunts better but that ship has sailed for now. Maybe they will adjust it later so everybody wins. For now we need to stick together and make sure we are hunting with respect to each other and try to keep the bad apples from causing problems for the rest of us. Thanks for listenin!
goshenmountainman
Senior Member
That turkey hunter should have killed the hog and had way more meat than a little ole turkey, guys probably would have helped him get it to the road. That tom would have been there the next day but not the hog...
Used to be, when
Totally agree!
But you said you turned loose far from where he was hunting and bad luck just caused your paths to cross. I’m in agreement about people being disrespectful. I know all to well about folks parking right beside my truck and helping themselves right in behind me. My point is, it’s not just dog hunters as it happens to me far more by deer hunters during deer season. Should we stop deer hunters because of the few bad apples or should we all be a little more respectful and realize we don’t live in our own little worlds and everyone should have to cater to me!!
Trust me, them boys don’t catch and release near as many as they let on. What needs to happen, is put a stop to all the road riding and hunting in big gangs. Then the problems would diminish greatly. I hunt both, but was taught by my daddy that everyone had the same rites as me. I shouldn’t interfere with another mans hunt if I could help it and shouldn’t be too upset if mine gets messed up on accident. But we don’t live in a world where decency is very abundant. You think it’s fair to me that some punk messed up a Turkey hunt and now my season gets taken away. Your fooled if you think they will stop with this. They’ll come after the rest of it too!
Totally agree!
But you said you turned loose far from where he was hunting and bad luck just caused your paths to cross. I’m in agreement about people being disrespectful. I know all to well about folks parking right beside my truck and helping themselves right in behind me. My point is, it’s not just dog hunters as it happens to me far more by deer hunters during deer season. Should we stop deer hunters because of the few bad apples or should we all be a little more respectful and realize we don’t live in our own little worlds and everyone should have to cater to me!!
Trust me, them boys don’t catch and release near as many as they let on. What needs to happen, is put a stop to all the road riding and hunting in big gangs. Then the problems would diminish greatly. I hunt both, but was taught by my daddy that everyone had the same rites as me. I shouldn’t interfere with another mans hunt if I could help it and shouldn’t be too upset if mine gets messed up on accident. But we don’t live in a world where decency is very abundant. You think it’s fair to me that some punk messed up a Turkey hunt and now my season gets taken away. Your fooled if you think they will stop with this. They’ll come after the rest of it too!
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jbogg
Senior Member
I appreciate your perspective since you have been on both sides of the fence. I hunt with both bow and gun, and there are a lot of guys that like to hunt bear early with a bow when they are still climbing the white oaks. The early rifle hunt starting just a week after the bow opener and then followed immediately by a ton of dog hunters for nine days makes the prospect of taking a bear with archery equipment an even tougher proposition unless a man is able to get it done in the first week. Chattahoochee and Chestatee will get real small real fast with that many dogs running. I understand that it won’t affect deer movement a few weeks later, but I would be surprised if there is a bear left on those two WMAs for the final two weeks of bow season which reopens the day after the dogs finish running. The bears will resume their normal patterns within their normal range eventually, but it sure won’t happen overnight. With that said I don’t blame the dog hunters and I wish them success. Just wish the DNR had given a little more thought to the timing.
