Paging C. Killmaster

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Tight Lines

Senior Member
Reading this thread kind of cements in my mind why some guys kill a lot of deer and others sit by the fire. There is a confluence of events in NGA that isn't in the control of the state. Unless the forests are managed for the game, and a whole bunch of other factors happen like food sources, then relocating the game is a short term death sentence. Whitetail, quail, and turkey all need a balance of habitat, food, water, and predator limitations to succeed. North Georgia forests are pretty, but unfortunately they don't have the habitat required for a lot of whitetail.

I grew up in Kansas, and I am passionate about fly fishing, even more so than hunting. But dang, no matter how we tried, getting those big bows and browns to live and spawn in our silty warm rivers just never worked. Now, we tried to get the state in increase the gradient, bring in a couple of million metric tons of limestone and rock, pump clean cold water out of the aquifer and put a canopy over the creeks to keep the temperatures from rising. All the while trying to get the farmers to keep their cattle out of our artificial stream. The state and the farmers said no.

So, I bought a fish tank instead and traveled to Colorado to fish for proper trout...and I killed pheasants, deer, and quail along those warm, silty streams...
 
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C.Killmaster

Georgia Deer Biologist
Only reason why I got on this forum was because you asked how is it so mismanaged and I’ve tried with my limited vocabulary to express my opinion that I think a lot of hunters in the mountains have. Sorry but it doesn’t feel like you’re on our side and I’m sure it’s difficult job and as you told me one time I’m uninformed on details but I know what I’ve been seeing for the last 10 or so years and it is only getting worse. I honestly don’t think there’s anything that will bring our deer back from where they are now. Just because poor decisions were made doesn’t mean we have to keep them and again I’m not seeing anything changing. Thank you for taking the time to communicate with us but your answers tell me that nothing is going to change up here. No need to reply, I’m done.

The only say I have at all on CNF is deer hunting regulations. Since all legal doe harvest was shut down, what more can I do? I also initiated the fawn study up there to prove what we all knew was going on, which helps but that alone won't change forest management. North GA hunters collectively have a lot more say in what happens to the forest than I do. I can furnish data and information, but if hunters don't unite and demand change from the Feds there's nothing I can do.
 

Sixes

Senior Member
I've asked before and do not remember if it was answered, but to all you guys from the mountain area, are you saying there is no deer anywhere or that it is just a problem on public land?

How is the population on the private lands bordering all the national forest land?
 

livinoutdoors

Goatherding Non-socialist Bohemian Luddite
I've asked before and do not remember if it was answered, but to all you guys from the mountain area, are you saying there is no deer anywhere or that it is just a problem on public land?

How is the population on the private lands bordering all the national forest land?
There is a good many deer in upscale mountain subdivisions. If someone had no formal wildlife biology training and they just observed they might be inclined to think that mountain deer required habitat is a large house on the side of a hill with a huge deck overlooking a feeder placed there by people who came from new york after living in florida for a bit. Good setup but hard to hunt.??
 

jbogg

Senior Member
The only say I have at all on CNF is deer hunting regulations. Since all legal doe harvest was shut down, what more can I do? I also initiated the fawn study up there to prove what we all knew was going on, which helps but that alone won't change forest management. North GA hunters collectively have a lot more say in what happens to the forest than I do. I can furnish data and information, but if hunters don't unite and demand change from the Feds there's nothing I can do.

We hunters are a splintered group with lots of different agendas. Without a unified voice we will always be drowned out by the anti-/Environmental crowd. Groups like Forest Watch continue to intimidate the forest service with Threatened litigation preventing the necessary timber cutting and other activities which would benefit wildlife. Public comment periods come and go and yet very few hunters take the time to show up and have their voices heard either in person or online. I recently went on the DNR website to read the public comments submitted online for the Foothills Project. It allows you to search by name to look up someone’s comment. I was disappointed to see how few guys that I know on this forum actually took the time to submit a comment in favor.

The foothills project is not perfect, but it’s a step in the right direction. However, in my short informal survey it appeared that the comments were probably 10 to 1 in opposition. My father used to say if you don’t vote you don’t get to complain about who’s in office. This forum is a great resource to coordinate Hunter’s voices so that we are heard, but it will take more than a handful of folks if things are to change.
 

Jim Boyd

Senior Member
Beating on Mr. Killmaster is not gonna accomplish anything.

If fact, it lessens other people’s opinion of you - or I should say it does in my case.

If you are trying to catch a 10 lb bass and there ain’t one in that pond you are fishing, you gotta head for another pond.

I live, hunt, lease and own a farm in central southern SC. Generally speaking, we don’t have many big bucks. My chances of taking a 150 class whitetail here are near zero and I know that.

Come November each year, I am headed N and W to where there are giant bucks.

IMO the state and federal agencies work very hard to meet the needs and desires of the people.

Note that I said - “of the people”.

Not one group of the people. The mountainous areas are used for far more than deer hunting.

When we start thinking that we need more government to meet the needs of what is a relatively small group we are in trouble indeed.
 

shdw633

Senior Member
Beating on Mr. Killmaster is not gonna accomplish anything.

If fact, it lessens other people’s opinion of you - or I should say it does in my case.

If you are trying to catch a 10 lb bass and there ain’t one in that pond you are fishing, you gotta head for another pond.

I live, hunt, lease and own a farm in central southern SC. Generally speaking, we don’t have many big bucks. My chances of taking a 150 class whitetail here are near zero and I know that.

Come November each year, I am headed N and W to where there are giant bucks.

IMO the state and federal agencies work very hard to meet the needs and desires of the people.

Note that I said - “of the people”.

Not one group of the people. The mountainous areas are used for far more than deer hunting.

When we start thinking that we need more government to meet the needs of what is a relatively small group we are in trouble indeed.

Not everybody has the resources you do Jim to just up and "go to another pond". I can feel for the frustration of the hunters that have to hunt public land in the mountains, because they have to suffer through much of what I am saying and as both of our problems don't effect the majority of the hunters in Georgia the attitude is if you don't like it find a different place to hunt. There are times when the only outlet you have is a forum board like this to try and get attention to what is a problem for a minority group of hunters.
 

Browning Slayer

Official Voice Of The Dawgs !
Not everybody has the resources you do Jim to just up and "go to another pond". I can feel for the frustration of the hunters that have to hunt public land in the mountains, because they have to suffer through much of what I am saying and as both of our problems don't effect the majority of the hunters in Georgia the attitude is if you don't like it find a different place to hunt. There are times when the only outlet you have is a forum board like this to try and get attention to what is a problem for a minority group of hunters.
I was born and raised in this state. I spend half my time in the mountains and the other half down south hunting.

In the 43 years I've lived in this state, no one I know "goes" to the mountains to deer hunt. We go to fish, hike, camp and other hunting. There is PLENTY of public land in the Piedmont that folks can go and fill their freezer with venison.
 

XIronheadX

PF Trump Cam Operator !20/20
Maybe the state can start a program where public land hunters donate money and time to improve public land, like everyone else is doing on leased land. It's 2020 and nothing is free. Not even resources. I'm surprised they aren't asking for camo and ammo be included in the license fees.
 

Joe Brandon

Senior Member
Maybe the state can start a program where public land hunters donate money and time to improve public land, like everyone else is doing on leased land. It's 2020 and nothing is free. Not even resources. I'm surprised they aren't asking for camo and ammo be included in the license fees.
We do its called a hunting license. You think the money you pay for leased land goes to land and habitat improvement? Its not, that paper company can snatch it anytime.
 

XIronheadX

PF Trump Cam Operator !20/20
We do its called a hunting license. You think the money you pay for leased land goes to land and habitat improvement? Its not, that paper company can snatch it anytime.

The same license the leased land hunters pay for? You think we aren't spending loads outside of the lease payment? Or possibly even paying the state to be part of a program? Planting? Hiring the forestry service?

We may gamble a little on it being taken away, but we are proactive.

Which was my point. Don't expect public land to provide you with all the wildlife you want to shoot for less than $100.
 

j_seph

Senior Member
If I was financially able, I would. But just like many of us up here, we’re stuck with what we have around us, and we just want a huntable deer population.
Not sure but your on the internet and paying for internet. $45 a month x 12 is $540 for a hunting club
 

j_seph

Senior Member
That argument only goes so far Nic. Do they enjoy the trucks they drive or the tractors and tools they use, do they enjoy the house they live in or the relationship with their financial and sales institutions, all of which are needed for them to farm successfully so you can eat that supper and wear them cloths. If the issue is so bad why do most of these farmers not allow hunters on their property. That's the situation I am around, i have heard of guys around our area killing 70 plus deer per year on those permits, yet the farmer doesn't allow anyone to hunt their land, not even through a lease. I would think that if the deer were that big of a problem you would be seeking hunters out during the season to reduce the herd size. Perhaps if the issue is so bad we should allow hunters in those counties to hunt at night with permits and thermals during the season as well and let them take bucks, surely that would help them out a lot. I had a farmer in Michigan who allowed me to hunt his land and I stated to him one day that I bet he was glad I was removing some of these deer off his property, his comment back to me was that if he wasn't a good enough farmer to feed a few deer and still make a profit than he would get out of the farming business.
Legal hunting cannot be done with spotlight and night vision thermal scopes
 

transfixer

Senior Member
I see no reason that the forest service couldn't set aside a percentage within each forest to be cut and replanted, allowing browse and undergrowth to grow, I do understand the environmental crowd is much more vocal than the deer hunting crowd, I believe mostly because the majority of deer hunters work and have busy lives, the environmental fanatics generally do that for a living, full time, if they work at all. So they have a lot more time to organize and make sure to go to public meetings,


I hunted the mountain wma's when I was in my 20's and early 30's, not because I thought I had a good chance at a deer, simply because it was different hunting to me. I knew I would be lucky to even see a deer back then, the ones I did see were in the lower valleys, where the browse was,

But if the bear population is as high as I'm hearing it is, I would think it needs to be reduced down , even if they don't kill that many fawns, they compete for some of the same food deer do.
 

shdw633

Senior Member

kmckinnie

BOT KILLER MODERATOR
Staff member
Very cheap lic. At that too.
Why should I pay more for what y’all need up thar!
My timber lease can be taken at any time. I improve the habitat on the place. I lease the land. Don’t expect them to turn around and plant food plots on
It can be with a depredation permit

They do it in Fla. also !?
 

Nicodemus

The Recluse
Staff member
I don`t fuss and get mad about the speckled trout, redfish, Spanish mackerel, and cobia limits and lengths that Florida imposes. I accept it and keep on fishing. I realize that I`m a visitor to that state, so I respect what they are doing.
 

shdw633

Senior Member
I don`t fuss and get mad about the speckled trout, redfish, Spanish mackerel, and cobia limits and lengths that Florida imposes. I accept it and keep on fishing. I realize that I`m a visitor to that state, so I respect what they are doing.
How do you think the ban on netting came about so that more fish are available for you to catch. Fisherman complained to a point that it got put on the ballot and it was passed to ban the netting.
 
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