Jephthah's vow and sacrifice.

[NE GA Pappy]

??? Those “thousands of children” weren’t sacrificed in Israel. Where do you read that they were? Baal worship was east of the Jordan, not in Israel.

Not true. Baal worship was all over the northern tribes. There were temples around the base of Mt Hermon where children were sacrificed even during the time of Christ. That is one reason Peter wanted to erect temples there when Moses and Elijah appeared and Jesus was transfigured. The Jordan river springs from the base of the mountain, and there is a huge cavern there where children where thrown into the upper chamber and the lower chamber was watched for signs of blood, showing the gods had not accepted the offering.

 

[BANDERSNATCH]

Not true. Baal worship was all over the northern tribes. There were temples around the base of Mt Hermon where children were sacrificed even during the time of Christ. That is one reason Peter wanted to erect temples there when Moses and Elijah appeared and Jesus was transfigured. The Jordan river springs from the base of the mountain, and there is a huge cavern there where children where thrown into the upper chamber and the lower chamber was watched for signs of blood, showing the gods had not accepted the offering.

Oh!! You’re talking about after the kingdom was split. God told them that if they started worshipping other gods then the land would spew them out. The last verses of II Kings tells us that the northern tribes were worshipping YHVH, but also worshipping the gods of Syria.

 

[NE GA Pappy]

??? Those “thousands of children” weren’t sacrificed in Israel. Where do you read that they were? Baal worship was east of the Jordan, not in Israel.

the Bible records that Ahab married Jezebel and brought Baal worship into the northern kingdom, and when their daughter, Athaliah married Jehoshaphat and continued the practice of Baal worship. It was all over the northern kingdom, and eventually worked its way into Judah also

 

[NE GA Pappy]

Oh!! You’re talking about after the kingdom was split. God told them that if they started worshipping other gods then the land would spew them out. The last verses of II Kings tells us that the northern tribes were worshipping YHVH, but also worshipping the gods of Syria.

yes the kingdom was split, but the 10 northern tribes where then called Israel, and the 2 southern tribes, Judah.
So Baal worship was practiced widely in Israel. Most of the history after a king was put over Israel happened under a split kingdom.

 

[BANDERSNATCH]

you radical. Reading something in the Bible, and actually believing it meant what it plainly says.

That reminds me of something my grandfather used to do. He believed that Joseph’s brothers didn’t actually sell him because he READ PLAINLY in Genesis that Midianites merchantmen removed Joseph from the pit and sold him to Ishmaelites. Lol. He cared less that there was overwhelming evidence that Joseph’s brothers sold him; he just held on to the weird wording of the KJV. Lol

 

[NE GA Pappy]

That reminds me of something my grandfather used to do. He believed that Joseph’s brothers didn’t actually sell him because he READ PLAINLY in Genesis that Midianites merchantmen removed Joseph from the pit and sold him to Ishmaelites. Lol. He cared less that there was overwhelming evidence that Joseph’s brothers sold him; he just held on to the weird wording of the KJV. Lol

our English language is evolving everyday, and has for centuries. When I was a youngin' if you said someone was gay, it meant happy. Then in my teenage years gay changed to queer, which had changed from meaning strange, to meaning homosexual.

Some of the wording and meanings of the words that were interpreted back in the 1600's by King James don't mean the same now. And the syntax of those words have changed too. You really need to look at several different translations to gather an idea of what the authors were trying to relay.

Even today, there are some words in the original text that we don't know what they mean. It has to be discerned from the context of the passage.

 

[bullethead]

Yet, in the time of Christ, children by the thousands were sacrificed in worship of Baal, and Israel was under the rule of Torah then too.

All thru the history of Israel, the Bible reports that the inhabitants worshipped Baal, or returned to the worship of Baal. The main method of Baal worship was human sacrifice, mostly of infants.

Also his vow was to offer a burnt sacrifice, not set aside something dedicated to God. The Bible plainly says that he fulfilled his vow, not a modified version of his vow.

Some Jews, along with other cultures, worshiped different gods. Baal accepted human sacrifices. The God of Abraham does not.
The Jews who worshiped Baal (there were different Baal's) were not Torah following Jews.
https://www.compellingtruth.org/baal.html

 

[NE GA Pappy]

Some Jews, along with other cultures, worshiped different gods. Baal accepted human sacrifices. The God of Abraham does not.
The Jews who worshiped Baal (there were different Baal's) were not Torah following Jews.
https://www.compellingtruth.org/baal.html

YEAH. AND?

 

[bullethead]

YEAH. AND?

The God of Abraham would not have wanted or accepted a Human sacrifice.
If scripture is talking about the Lord, meaning Baal, then you would be right.

 

[NE GA Pappy]

The God of Abraham would not have wanted or accepted a Human sacrifice.
If scripture is talking about the Lord, meaning Baal, then you would be right.

I think you are lost is space.

no one said God accepted the sacrifice, only that the sacrifice was made. People do things that are wrong all the time, and we don't say that God accepts that either.

The question was did he sacrifice his daughter. Scripture says yes.

As a side point someone mentioned that human sacrifice was not known amongst the Jews. It was pointed out that some Jews worshipped the idol gods of Baal, and that they did sacrifice humans on a regular basis.

 

[BANDERSNATCH]

Gen 37:28 (for you “take it as it is written” guys)

Then there passed by Midianites merchantmen; and they drew and lifted up Joseph out of the pit, and sold Joseph to the Ishmeelites for twenty pieces of silver: and they brought Joseph into Egypt.

Who sold Joseph? His brothers, or Midianite merchantmen?

 

[bullethead]

I think you are lost is space.

no one said God accepted the sacrifice, only that the sacrifice was made. People do things that are wrong all the time, and we don't say that God accepts that either.

The question was did he sacrifice his daughter. Scripture says yes.

As a side point someone mentioned that human sacrifice was not known amongst the Jews. It was pointed out that some Jews worshipped the idol gods of Baal, and that they did sacrifice humans on a regular basis.

The biblical story in question tends to lead the reader to believe that Jephthah was a believer in the God of Abraham. If he was then he followed the Torah. The God of Abraham and The Torah do not condone *human sacrifices.

To the side point, it seems whoever mentioned the Jews were talking about the Torah following Jews. They were not being specific.

*edited to add "human"

 

[BANDERSNATCH]

Gen 37:28 (for you “take it as it is written” guys)

Then there passed by Midianites merchantmen; and they drew and lifted up Joseph out of the pit, and sold Joseph to the Ishmeelites for twenty pieces of silver: and they brought Joseph into Egypt.

Who sold Joseph? His brothers, or Midianite merchantmen?

No reply from the ‘radicals’? Lol

 

[NE GA Pappy]

The biblical story in question tends to lead the reader to believe that Jephthah was a believer in the God of Abraham. If he was then he followed the Torah. The God of Abraham and The Torah do not condone *human sacrifices.

To the side point, it seems whoever mentioned the Jews were talking about the Torah following Jews. They were not being specific.

*edited to add "human"

and David, who was a man after God's own heart according to scripture, placed a warrior on the front lines and had the others abandon him there so he would be killed. There is no doubt that was premeditated murder. The Torah teaches against murder.
It is obvious that people are capable of breaking Torah law, even while professing to be a devout Jew.

 

[NE GA Pappy]

No reply from the ‘radicals’? Lol

Genisis 45:4 makes it quite plain that it was Joseph's brothers who sold him into slavery.

 

[BANDERSNATCH]

Genisis 45:4 makes it quite plain that it was Joseph's brothers who sold him into slavery.

So, you’re admitting that, sometimes, you could be mislead by a straight reading of a verse? (ie Jepthah daughter) That is my point. A ‘radical’ would swear that Midianites sold Joseph to Ishmaelites, and be wrong

 

[NE GA Pappy]

So, you’re admitting that, sometimes, you could be mislead by a straight reading of a verse? (ie Jepthah daughter) That is my point. A ‘radical’ would swear that Midianites sold Joseph to Ishmaelites, and be wrong

no, I am saying you have to take the whole of scripture into consideration. Is there another verse or another account of this incident that would make anyone believe that the girl wasn't sacrificed?

 

[BANDERSNATCH]

no, I am saying you have to take the whole of scripture into consideration. Is there another verse or another account of this incident that would make anyone believe that the girl wasn't sacrificed?

Exactly!! You’ve got to consider the whole of scripture! Yes, there are many verses that say not to sacrifice a human. Many. And nowhere does his daughter express concern about dying, only having to remain a virgin, which would have meant shame and ridicule for her.

 

[NE GA Pappy]

if you read in context, Gen 37:26-29 you will understand the entire thread.

26 And Judah said unto his brethren, What profit is it if we slay our brother, and conceal his blood?
27 Come, and let us sell him to the Ishmeelites, and let not our hand be upon him; for he is our brother and our flesh. And his brethren were content.
28 Then there passed by Midianites merchantmen; and they drew and lifted up Joseph out of the pit, and sold Joseph to the Ishmeelites for twenty pieces of silver: and they brought Joseph into Egypt.



If you read in context the story of the sacrifice of Jepthah's daughter, it is clear the author intended the conclusion of the story to be that the girl was sacrificed.

 

[NE GA Pappy]

Exactly!! You’ve got to consider the whole of scripture! Yes, there are many verses that say not to sacrifice a human. Many. And nowhere does his daughter express concern about dying, only having to remain a virgin, which would have meant shame and ridicule for her.

nope. To remain a virgin was highly regarded. What was thought a shame was to marry and not have children.

And nowhere in this narrative do you find any hint that he man didn't do as he vowed, except for your thought that it was against Torah, so he didn't kill her. It has been pointed out a number of times that regardless of what Torah taught, people disobeyed it on a regular basis.

That is the whole work of the Torah, to show us that we can never be good enough to purchase our own salvation. Remember the quote... The law kills......