Eternal Life Can Be Lost

[gordon 2]

It’s sad that some do not (or will not) believe that God will not (or cannot) keep His word.

There is not always agreement as to the meaning of His word and so the way of His truth.

“God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life.”

To believe in Him has become many things, some different, to many.

To my heart and mind sin continues to put a veil of shame between a believer and God, even after the cross. It did so with Adam and Eve at the first sin and continues with those even born of God and in Christ. When it does not cause shame in the believer they are with physical illness, or run in the chains of the world reasoning as the world does, or have been made foolish by trust in doctrinal error.

 

[Madman]

Sometimes we are not able to see beyond our presuppositions.

We look to one verse here and try to attach another there, when we should be reading the entire book in context.
The salvific power of God is too immense to attempt a single verse definition.

Unfortunately Christians have been so interested in throwing stones, since the beginning, we have become blind and deaf to understanding.

 

[gordon 2]

Sometimes we are not able to see beyond our presuppositions.

We look to one verse here and try to attach another there, when we should be reading the entire book in context.
The salvific power of God is too immense to attempt a single verse definition.

Unfortunately Christians have been so interested in throwing stones, since the beginning, we have become blind and deaf to understanding.

Even in biblical context I can make error and so do others. I personally think the context of the heart of Christ is the best source to sound the context of most anything spiritual--provided it is gained from the supernatural. The context of my faith must be in the miraculous after which I proceed to scripture. Christ in me is not hammered to right proportions by context of scripture. The miraculous gift of his love to my heart was all sufficient. Love birthed love. And in that context, in that light... I live with God and his word is supernatural. God surpasses the logic accords we might make in the contexts we find...with love all by itself.

 

[tell sackett]

There is not always agreement as to the meaning of His word and so the way of His truth.

“God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life.”

To believe in Him has become many things, some different, to many.

To my heart and mind sin continues to put a veil of shame between a believer and God, even after the cross. It did so with Adam and Eve at the first sin and continues with those even born of God and in Christ. When it does not cause shame in the believer they are with physical illness, or run in the chains of the world reasoning as the world does, or have been made foolish by trust in doctrinal error.

First things first: I am a sinner and will continue to be as long as I am in this fleshly body. That's the bad news. The good news is I am a redeemed sinner. Jesus Christ, by His sacrificial death purchased me out of the marketplace of sin. He paid all of my debt, I am no longer a slave to sin. He said "Tetelestai" and I believe what he has said (I committed myself to Him, I entrusted my soul to Him). That is the way that word is used in Jo.3:16.

Jesus also uses it in Jo.5:24. He unequivocally states there that those who believe on Him that sent Jesus has everlasting life and shall not come into condemnation but has passed from death to life(Rom.8:1). I read in 1Pe. that I have an incorruptible, undefiled inheritance that fades not and is reserved in heaven for me and that I am kept by the power of God. If I cannot trust Him to keep me, how can I possibly trust Him to save me? I am now in Christ and no power can remove me.

Back to the fact of my sin. gemcgrew quotes for us 1Jo.3:9, see also 5:18. What John is writing of is habitual sin. If God expects sinless perfection of us to remain saved, then apparently Jesus was wrong when He said "Tetelestai", was He not? His death would have been only partial payment. If believers do not sin why do we have this in 1Jo.also: If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess(present tense) our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.

 

[gordon 2]

First things first: I am a sinner and will continue to be as long as I am in this fleshly body. That's the bad news. The good news is I am a redeemed sinner. Jesus Christ, by His sacrificial death purchased me out of the marketplace of sin. He paid all of my debt, I am no longer a slave to sin. He said "Tetelestai" and I believe what he has said (I committed myself to Him, I entrusted my soul to Him). That is the way that word is used in Jo.3:16.

Jesus also uses it in Jo.5:24. He unequivocally states there that those who believe on Him that sent Jesus has everlasting life and shall not come into condemnation but has passed from death to life(Rom.8:1). I read in 1Pe. that I have an incorruptible, undefiled inheritance that fades not and is reserved in heaven for me and that I am kept by the power of God. If I cannot trust Him to keep me, how can I possibly trust Him to save me? I am now in Christ and no power can remove me.

Back to the fact of my sin. gemcgrew quotes for us 1Jo.3:9, see also 5:18. What John is writing of is habitual sin. If God expects sinless perfection of us to remain saved, then apparently Jesus was wrong when He said "Tetelestai", was He not? His death would have been only partial payment. If believers do not sin why do we have this in 1Jo.also: If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess(present tense) our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.

I think we can agree on some things. Good points.

 

[tell sackett]

It takes God for a man to even know he is a sinner.

And just as likewise it takes the work of God to let a man know he is forgiven

So very true
So very wonderful

 

[tell sackett]

Just in case anyone may be misconstruing my post#171 to be some kind of easy believeism, okey dokey to sin, you are badly mistaken. As I am more conformed to the likeness of my Father I am to have the same holy hatred of sin that He has. Do I sin? Yes, more than I want to, but I am called to strive against sin, to put on my armor and stand against it day, by day, by day. I love my Father and I want to do what He commands me to do in order that my life will be pleasing unto Him.

 

[Madman]

There is a lot of talk about “doing”, “pleasing”, etc.

Perhaps we should allow Christ to “transform” us. Perhaps we should “surrender”. “If it be your will….”.

That depends on one’s definition of various terms.

 

[formula1]

“I” redirected!

Psalm 121
1 I lift up my eyes to the hills.
From where does my help come?
2 My help comes from the Lord,
who made heaven and earth.

 

[gordon 2]

God quality input will cause God quality output one would think. During Jesus' day a lot of folk confessed to the God of Abraham and were fond of Moses, yet their God quality output was said to be no so great. In fact we are told that despite their confessions they did not know the Father otherwise they would have known Jesus for who he is. " It is not sacrifice I want..." was come by here pie in the sky--life lived in a rough neighborhood.

If in my case "I" understands that God so loved the world as to give his only son, then "I" can't fault God for poor quality input and must conclude that if my or my brother's output and understanding is a confusion something runs interference between God's input and my "I" and its output.

If there is something that makes "I" see contradiction in God's input when I know in my heart their is no need of it to be, then perhaps my faith is lacking love for man. Maybe. In Christ God's love is much more than his command of mercy.

 

[gordon 2]

The faith that loves is the faith that lives. Possibly this faith, a loving faith is that which ministers salvation with Paul and Peter. It is not only a faith of belief, but it is a faith of living, of being.


"Then Peter said, Silver and gold have I none; but such as I have give I thee: In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth rise up and walk."

 

[BanjoPicker]

Or that a man can't believe this...

Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Or this...

Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

"Every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin; and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death" (Jas. 1:13-16).

 

[BanjoPicker]

Bless you for that.

I didn't know.
Just how much I needed to be reminded.


But then, I never do.


I was forgetting by thinking I was happy enough.

"Who concerning the truth have erred . . . and overthrow the faith of some" (2 Tim. 2:17-18).

 

[BanjoPicker]

It only makes sense to take ignorance as the gift it is when it is proffered.

It'd be foolish for a man to try and stand upon what he has done; anymore than it would be to find he's inviting not only what he has not done for the judging...but even all the other things he conveniently forgets he has done.

"I want this one to count...that...not so much."

Anyone else ever find God just ain't as stupid as we'd sometimes think we'd like Him to be?

Now, it's a bit late for me as I've found Paul too faithful in his candor, to me he's been shown a reliable witness...time and again. He got taken places...he went places. So much so he was ascribed insanity at times, at others finding himself in need of defending his apostleship.

But for what remains of magik and superstition it's imagined and it's very much magically assumed he'd have primo reservations and the red carpet treatment for every "christian" he'd visit today. Kinda like Jesus Christ.

But Paul knew when to see, and find, and take ignorance as a gift. And he also knew no one could foist this as gift to another...it had to be realized. But oh, when offered as in "Father forgive them they know not what they do" and that gift of mercy was forever linked to it in that plea...he took it.


Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.

And so much so he came to embrace it as relief from striving of all and any trying to explain the inexplicable to others...instead he just went about naked of everything except of what Christ had worked in him. Theory was gone.

And so much so he'd come to see a something...and say a something that...except a man come to occupy that spot, would surely appear as though so much of what he'd said before was...well...error. Or at least...didn't square.

And he knew he couldn't get "anyone" there anymore than he'd gotten himself to it. But, he would, nevertheless, convinced Christ had worked this in him...publish it in all, and for all, recommendation.

This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

But, in that acceptance he also came to understand, by sight of it...the very why of it.

Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.

His choosing had all and only with a thing another desired...and desired to show.

Now a silly man would ask..."Then how bad do I have to be, or yet strive to be, to know this?"

"After all, can I outchief...Paul?"

I like that some of you are laughing.

There's patience in abundance for any others.

And we can all "keep going" but, only by the Lord's grace.

To quote him has no magic in it...it's all and only the only real stuff a man might come to know.

"and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you."




"It ain't so much that men don't wanna be saved to the uttermost, son. It's just that few men know how much they really do need to be. But then, ain't none of us used to bein' loved so well, and so much.

An' my prayer for you boy, is that you never get used to it to the point of taken it for granted. But only believin' it will keep you from that. An' for that you're gunna need all the help there is. It'll surprise you every time...how much you need, and how much is there."

St. Pugnatious

"Whosoever committeth sin is of the devil," not of God, regardless of past salvation (1 John. 3:8).

 

[BanjoPicker]

You ain't gonna find a feller what likes havin' his cake and eatin' it too, more'n me.

So's I got no accusation, jes reconnition o' when I believe I see it also bein' done.

Do you not see a conundrum?

The word for servant, doulos is alternately translated slave and servant...and for our intents it makes little difference.

The commiting of sin(s), though not reserved only to unbelievers, though you might contend (not sure, do you?) it gets one "unborn again" again seems here to be the/a sticking point.
So, let's grant it does that. Just for the sake of seeing if there's a consistency to your thinking and writing.

A sin or sins, that can make a disciple into a spiritually "dead again" un-new creation/creature...delivers him back to that prior estate of being a slave to sin...in every way as much as the estate of an unbeliever. (I am not contending sin has no consequence)

Am I presuming too much of your contentions?

Slave. Blind. Bound. Both by sin, and to it.

How do you square previous contending for man as "free" moral agent then in his natural state? What is free about a slave? What is free about one who is blind to choice of good..if all and only "choice" is, and can only be among sin?

It is like being told "you can have whatever color you want, so long as it is blue", or contending a man in that situation...is free.

We all need an intervention...and a continual intervening, not so Jesus has something to do to keep Him busy, but in His exercise of His doing and being as inseparably consistent for His glory and our salvation (of necessity)...

"Who ever liveth to make intercession for us".

Jesus Christ is consistent.

An unspeakable gift...always.

"Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin UNTO DEATH, or of obedience UNTO RIGHTEOUNESS . . . the end of those things [committing sins] IS DEATH . . . for the wages of sin IS DEATH " (Rom. 6:16-23).

 

[BanjoPicker]

We can hold 2 attitudes at once (seeming paradox).
In fact, if we do not because we cannot, we can hold neither of them.

It takes God for a man to even know he is a sinner.

And just as likewise it takes the work of God to let a man know he is forgiven.

Our attitude toward our self is one thing...our attitude of God's mercy found in His self, is another.

God resolves all that we cannot.

"If we deny him, he also will deny us" (2 Tim. 2:12). This is a plain lie if God will not da-mn saved men should they sin and deny him.

 

[BanjoPicker]

Do you not hear yourself?



Is it to be taken then that God will? Durn saved men?

I noticed you just copied and paste the last part not the whole reply and yes I know what I said and it was the truth

 

[gemcgrew]

"Every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin; and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death" (Jas. 1:13-16).

Amen

Now what?

 

[formula1]

1 Peter 1
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! According to his great mercy, he has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 to an inheritance that is imperishable, undefiled, and unfading, kept in heaven for you, 5 who by God's power are being guarded through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

Who’s power is guarding you and why? You either trust Him to do what he says or not! Your own power cannot guard you or save you!

 

[BanjoPicker]

OK. Here it is in whole.




The "This" of "This is a plain lie..." is the "If we deny him, he also will deny us" so that that "this" would be the plain lie:



saved men.

It is a lie if

?

God will da'mn...saved men?


Could it be saved men are the men who already know they are condemned...under God's law? And are made able, through Christ to accept it? And being made able by and through the quickening faith of Christ (and by that faith...alone) are now the justified before God?

For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.


Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

One man "reckons" he can put God in his debt...God now owes him something by his own work. And he sees salvation (the reward) as something owed him.

Grace, however...helps a man...in every way...even be reconciled to all his own unGodliness.

By the work...entirely...of another done on his behalf...by and for another.

And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.

I testify that while I look for my works to bear fruit...in all frustration...I find a gift extended.

A voice from Heaven.

I am often reminded, as I am so in need of reminding, of how little is apprehended of just how criminal Jesus Christ...appeared.


Seemed.

One might come to understand relationship...both in meaning and understanding. To be there must be understanding of "who is who" that unity might be shown real...and true. Only One is God.

How do we know? Many, many...rebukes.

And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.


I believe it is a good thing you are so devoted to the teaching of the gospel so that in the teaching of the gospel you may learn the gospel, (even as the apostles did) and we also with you.


When a man loves the truth more than he loves the teaching of a thing he begins to see the delight of God in saving him.


And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning. Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost. Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God? When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.



This was after all had been told:


And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

Is it any wonder the apostle, Peter, said this

Wherefore I will not be negligent to put you always in remembrance of these things, though ye know them, and be established in the present truth. Yea, I think it meet, as long as I am in this tabernacle, to stir you up by putting you in remembrance; Knowing that shortly I must put off this my tabernacle, even as our Lord Jesus Christ hath shewed me.

I am convinced Peter came to understand by remembrance that the difference between his denial and Judas' betrayal not only rested upon Jesus knowing, but Jesus' prayer for him that when he was turned he would strengthen the brethren. "Simon Simon, Satan has desired...But I have prayed for you..."


For he knew who should betray him; therefore said he, Ye are not all clean.

I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine. And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them.


I don't know that there is one man that does not encounter this tension, what's news to me...is not news to Him. There's often a struggle found in men to be in the lead, it's in men to want to be ahead of themselves to prevent their own dismay, considering what dismay the "old" nature is heir to.

But the last shall be first.

Wrong not a lie it just takes only one sin to loose eternal life for you me and anyone else it just took one for Adam to loose it, and were not any better than him.