Methodist split - Florida update

[brutally honest]

“The implosion of the 13-million-member global United Methodist Church has accelerated as 106 conservative Florida congregations are suing their liberal bishop, Kenneth Carter, for better terms as they quit the denomination. This schism of America’s largest liberal Mainline denomination represents the wider collapse of 20th century liberal Protestantism, whose leading institutions are fast receding if not dying.”

https://wng.org/opinions/methodism-implodes-amid-litigation-1662032394

 

[Madman]

Separating the sheep and the goats.

 

[dslc6487]

Many United Methodist Churches in Georgia have already disaffiliated with the United Methodist Church and many more have already voted to disaffiliate. All of this could have been prevented several years ago if the proper action had been taken against those clergy that turned from biblical teachings and turned from following the rules as set forth in the Book of Discipline. And, it does not take but one immoral incident, left unattended, to mushroom into a situation that is unsalvageable...

 

[brutally honest]

Many United Methodist Churches in Georgia have already disaffiliated with the United Methodist Church and many more have already voted to disaffiliate. All of this could have been prevented several years ago if the proper action had been taken against those clergy that turned from biblical teachings and turned from following the rules as set forth in the Book of Discipline. And, it does not take but one immoral incident, left unattended, to mushroom into a situation that is unsalvageable...

It seems like Georgia has also had problems with liberal bishops. This story is from last year:

Methodist Bully Bishop Escalates North Georgia Crisis, for "Love" - Juicy Ecumenism

 

[Artfuldodger]

Even if you don't agree, shouldn't those Churches be allowed to secede from the union so to speak?

 

[brutally honest]

Even if you don't agree, shouldn't those Churches be allowed to secede from the union so to speak?

Absolutely. I’m sure many churches want this over ASAP. It's been dragging on for awhile now.

 

[4HAND]

No wonder America's in the shape she's in.

 

[Madman]

The argument is usually over property. The national organization makes claims as does the local congregation.

Unfortunately, as with the liberal Episcopal group, the national org would rather give it to Muslims than sell it to the congregation at a reasonable price.

Just walk away. Ultimately the Lord will bless the move.

 

[GeorgiaBob]

The issues now splitting the UMC have been brewing for 30 years. Originally, the divisiveness was about the greater church's funding of urban ministries (including ministries to the [then] tiny homosexual communities in cities) instead of continuing to support the many areas of ministry the church has been supporting for a century. When several ordained clergy (a very tiny minority) openly acknowledged that they were homosexual, the issues refocused on how to deal with homosexuals in the church.

For a while, most United Methodists were willing to accept that the denomination's rules, including the biblical prohibition of homosexual unions would continue with a commitment to love the sinner, not the sin. Somehow that changed around 2005-2008. It seemed (to me) that a tiny number of activist homosexual clergy leading urban churches, rejected the biblical teaching, insisted on their "new" interpretation, and led a revolt. The conference leaders failed to oppose this revolution. Several urban churches seemed to go along with the changes. Annual Conferences debated this, but it seemed no one listened to anyone else

Now I see that more than 80% of all United Methodist churches are opposed supporting homosexual clergy, but those churches represent fewer than half of the total number of individual members. The United Methodist churches in Africa, South Korea, and elsewhere in the global connection, uniformly oppose ordaining or sustaining homosexual clergy and have made it clear they will not continue in union with a General Conference that does. Interestingly, it appears that all UM churches have seen a drop in membership, attendance, and financial support during this time. Those churches that have already split from the General Conference have generally seen growth both in membership and in ministries.

I suspect that the division of the UMC is a reflection of the current broken society we live in. Most large urban UM churches have decided (mostly by slim majorities) to be "inclusive" and "accepting." Those churches have chosen to disregard the Discipline of the United Methodist Church (the rule book) and move in a "new" direction. Most of the Bishops (generally elected from large urban churches) and most Conferences in the US have taken sides supporting the urban churches. As a consequence of their actions, churches that choose to remain loyal to the Bible as written and to the church, as spelled out in the Discipline, have been left with no choice but to leave.

Heartbreaking, but I do remember that there is ONE church, the church of all who believe in the Lord, Jesus Christ our Savior, and the Holy Spirit. The politics are painful, but not the Church.

 

[Spotlite]

Even if you don't agree, shouldn't those Churches be allowed to secede from the union so to speak?

Yea that’s what I’m wondering - what’s binding them? Unless they’re wanting to hang on to the identity of UMC??

Edited to add: I think I see now. Kind of being forced out but it’s costing them instead of the ones not upholding church standards.

“United Methodist properties, in a “trust clause,” are owned by the denomination through the local state-level “conference.” But in 2019, when the church’s General Conference again reaffirmed traditional biblical sexual teaching, it okayed a new rule letting dissenting congregations take their property with a one-time exit fee. Dissenters could be pro-LGBTQ liberals or conservatives upset over nonenforcement of church law. Departing churches must pay two years’ worth of “apportionments” to the denomination plus clergy pension liability. The stated deadline for departure is December 2023”

 

[Tight Lines]

It's a mirror image of the split in America politically...the traditional, conservative churches in smaller, more traditional cities, counties and states are at odds with the leadership in the largest cities and states that lean liberal. It won't change.

 

[tell sackett]

I tend to see it the opposite way. What’s happening politically and in society is a result of what’s happening in the church.

Now it seems the SBC is dabbling their toes in the same sump hole.

 

[brutally honest]

Yea that’s what I’m wondering - what’s binding them? Unless they’re wanting to hang on to the identity of UMC??

I don’t understand all the details, but they’re basically waiting until the next “general conference” to discuss an orderly separation plan — and they keep postponing the conference.

More here:


https://juicyecumenism.com/2021/02/25/understanding-the-umc-general-conference-delay/

https://juicyecumenism.com/2022/03/03/filibuster-umc-general-conference/

https://juicyecumenism.com/2022/03/14/why-further-delay-umc-general-conference/

 

[brutally honest]

I tend to see it the opposite way. What’s happening politically and in society is a result of what’s happening in the church.

Now it seems the SBC is dabbling their toes in the same sump hole.

What is the SBC doing?

 

[Ruger#3]

It was a blessing when the Episcopals splintered. The church went back to the teachings before the influence of “contemporary society.”

 

[tell sackett]

What is the SBC doing?

Woke

 

[brutally honest]

Woke

Yeah, I have seen some of that. Just wondered if there was something else.

 

[brutally honest]

Woke

Is this the fault of the seminaries? Are they teaching this nonsense?

Or is it that our secular schools are producing “woke” graduates who then enter the seminaries?

 

[brutally honest]

Woke

There is a YouTube channel called “Woke Preacher Clips” that is both hilarious and incredibly sad.

 

[tell sackett]

Is this the fault of the seminaries? Are they teaching this nonsense?

Or is it that our secular schools are producing “woke” graduates who then enter the seminaries?

Yeah, it’s creeping in more and more and spreads to the pulpit from there. Leadership at the national level is at best asleep at the switch. The last two presidents have been less than stellar. Jury’s out on the new one.

This is all my humble opinion, others may have a different view. We had this go- round in the 70’s, now here we are again.