Adam's rib - quick question for Biblical literalists

[oldfella1962]

Okay - here is an intriguing question: in the Garden of Eden God took one of Adam's ribs and used it to make Eve. Wouldn't that make Eve an exact CLONE of Adam since the DNA/genetic material is an exact match? How could Adam reproduce with an exact copy of himself - who would be a MALE?

If you take the Bible literally this story would be a tough situation to explain in the face of modern science. Of course, if you consider the story to be allegory, symbolism, metaphor, or just plain myth like countless other myths created by societies all over the world, there is much to be examined & interpreted.
IMHO many (not all) Biblical "young earth" literalists are afraid to give an inch to scientific facts. Because if some parts of the Bible are incorrect, other parts may also be incorrect. How do they know what's literal/true and what is just a story to teach us humans life lessons?

I'll give believers the benefit of the doubt here: maybe God uses these (never meant to be taken literally) stories because human brains aren't capable of understanding complex God-level thinking. What say you believers & non-believers?

 

[Baroque Brass]

Wasn’t the creation of Adam the result of god spitting in the dirt? Can’t help but wonder about that too.

 

[Ruger#3]

To put it literally, when you can create matter wheeling around chromosomes isn’t a stretch.

 

[RamblinWreck88]

I do not intend to attack you, but I think your post makes a lot of presuppositions about how Biblical literalists think and makes the stretching assumption that rib-to-person = "Clone in the modern scientific definition", all under a thin guise of an open discussion. My concern is that these are detrimental to having an informative conversation.

The above comment undercuts the "rib = CLONE" assumption, and that is valid. If one believes in such a creator, surely it is no jump of the mind to think that they could create a man from spitting in the clay or a woman from the man's rib.

 

[oldfella1962]

Wasn’t the creation of Adam the result of god spitting in the dirt? Can’t help but wonder about that too.

Adam was made from clay/dirt and God breathed life into him. Back in the day some cultures thought that life existed in your breath. Thus when you are dying, your life goes out of your body with your last breath.

 

[oldfella1962]

To put it literally, when you can create matter wheeling around chromosomes isn’t a stretch.

I'm not quite sure of what you said. Are you saying if God can create "matter wheeling around chromosomes" then he can do anything? I don't want to put words in your mouth.

 

[oldfella1962]

I do not intend to attack you, but I think your post makes a lot of presuppositions about how Biblical literalists think and makes the stretching assumption that rib-to-person = "Clone in the modern scientific definition", all under a thin guise of an open discussion. My concern is that these are detrimental to having an informative conversation.

The above comment undercuts the "rib = CLONE" assumption, and that is valid. If one believes in such a creator, surely it is no jump of the mind to think that they could create a man from spitting in the clay or a woman from the man's rib.

Very true! If you are taking everything in the Bible "on faith" then no matter how outrageous the stories are it doesn't really matter. I think it's very interesting how we can compare how the world really works in the year 2022 (and can be proven) with how people lived & thought back in the bronze/iron age.

 

[Ruger#3]

I'm not quite sure of what you said. Are you saying if God can create "matter wheeling around chromosomes" then he can do anything? I don't want to put words in your mouth.

That’s a fair summary, if he can create matter then altering chromosomes isn’t big stretch.

1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

 

[oldfella1962]

That’s a fair summary, if he can create matter then altering chromosomes isn’t big stretch.

1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

Oh I see.

 

[bullethead]

Technically God's Spirit should be hovering over everything, everywhere, at all times. It should be hovering over the waters right now, hovering over our keyboards and hovering over a child as her "uncle" enters her room and locks the door behind him.
If God can make matter he can alter DNA but for some reason he either can't or won't stop an "uncle".
Mysterious Ways....

 

[Ruger#3]

Technically God's Spirit should be hovering over everything, everywhere, at all times. It should be hovering over the waters right now, hovering over our keyboards and hovering over a child as her "uncle" enters her room and locks the door behind him.
If God can make matter he can alter DNA but for some reason he either can't or won't stop an "uncle".
Mysterious Ways....

I wish there was not evil but other forces are at work as well.

“Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. The one who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous. The one who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil’s work”

 

[bullethead]

I wish there was not evil but other forces are at work as well.

“Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. The one who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous. The one who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil’s work”

Wouldn't an All Knowing and All Powerful God be able to thwart any and every "evil" force?
Or
Does God allow it?

 

[oldfella1962]

Technically God's Spirit should be hovering over everything, everywhere, at all times. It should be hovering over the waters right now, hovering over our keyboards and hovering over a child as her "uncle" enters her room and locks the door behind him.
If God can make matter he can alter DNA but for some reason he either can't or won't stop an "uncle".
Mysterious Ways....

Good point! I'm not so amazed at the wondrous things that god can do as much as disappointed by what he won't do.

 

[bullethead]

Good point! I'm not so amazed at the wondrous things that god can do as much as disappointed by what he won't do.

There really is no defending it.
"Evil" is a cop out excuse that is meant to deflect away the capabilities and responsibility of a God.

 

[WaltL1]

I wish there was not evil but other forces are at work as well.

“Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. The one who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous. The one who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil’s work”

I think one of the issues most nonbelievers have the most is if this is true -

The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil’s work”

and this is true -

The one who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning.

Sure seems to go against God/Jesus being omni-everything , all powerful etc.
The only other plausibe explanation is God/Jesus allows it and/or doesnt consider it evil.
Some would say thats not worthy of their worship.

 

[Ruger#3]

I am far from an evangelist Walt but the Bible is full stories of folks enduring evil. It clearly says we are to expect it.

“What shall we say then? Is there injustice on God's part? By no means! For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy. For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.” So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills.


Beloved, do not be surprised at the fiery trial when it comes upon you to test you, as though something strange were happening to you. But rejoice insofar as you share Christ's sufferings, that you may also rejoice and be glad when his glory is revealed.

 

[bullethead]

I am far from an evangelist Walt but the Bible is full stories of folks enduring evil. It clearly says we are to expect it.

“What shall we say then? Is there injustice on God's part? By no means! For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy. For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.” So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills.


Beloved, do not be surprised at the fiery trial when it comes upon you to test you, as though something strange were happening to you. But rejoice insofar as you share Christ's sufferings, that you may also rejoice and be glad when his glory is revealed.

So then there is no free will if he hardens whomever he wills?

I guess what I am saying is that things are exactly as God wills them to be.
Why pray then? To change a God's mind?

 

[Ruger#3]

So then there is no free will if he hardens whomever he wills?

I guess what I am saying is that things are exactly as God wills them to be.
Why pray then? To change a God's mind?

Not to be callous but sounds like your looking for God to do everything for you, make the path easy. The path is clearly defined, you make a choice to believe. My prayers are more often for forgiveness of my failures and for strength to do better in the future. The prayer itself is an effort to get closer to God and communicate. Prayer was encouraged through out scripture.

 

[bullethead]

Not to be callous but sounds like your looking for God to do everything for you, make the path easy. The path is clearly defined, you make a choice to believe. My prayers are more often for forgiveness of my failures and for strength to do better in the future. The prayer itself is an effort to get closer to God and communicate. Prayer was encouraged through out scripture.

I actually don't want or expect any sort of diety to do anything for me. I am curious to the contradictory verses which the beleivers are left to defend or deflect.

In you're opinion since you mentioned that your God hardens hearts at and by his will, do you also think that man has free will?

 

[WaltL1]

I am far from an evangelist Walt but the Bible is full stories of folks enduring evil. It clearly says we are to expect it.

“What shall we say then? Is there injustice on God's part? By no means! For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy. For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.” So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills.


Beloved, do not be surprised at the fiery trial when it comes upon you to test you, as though something strange were happening to you. But rejoice insofar as you share Christ's sufferings, that you may also rejoice and be glad when his glory is revealed.

I'll be honest - I read all that ^ as God picks and chooses who and when he wants to grant his mercy. Ok thats fine.
But on the flip side, through (supposedly) no effort, he could grant his mercy to all these kids in particular who have done nothing to deserve the horrors bestowed upon them.
For example
We feel VERY strongly about the abortion of an innocent child yet God not granting mercy on an innocent child isnt even a speed bump. I cant square that type of thinking in my mind.