Adam's rib - quick question for Biblical literalists

[bullethead]

https://www.jewishhistory.org/bar-kochba/

This guy rolled in about 40 years after Jesus. Had an army of 350,000 "messanic" Jews (messanic doesn't mean for Jesus) without counting the non military.
He could uproot trees from horseback and it was a requirement to be in his army.
His reign had Rome in terror so much so that they Outlawed Judaism. Oddly enough that is about the time that Authors, anonymous and otherwise, started writing about a new religion.....
Coincidence?

 

[oldfella1962]

https://www.jewishhistory.org/bar-kochba/

This guy rolled in about 40 years after Jesus. Had an army of 350,000 "messanic" Jews (messanic doesn't mean for Jesus) without counting the non military.
He could uproot trees from horseback and it was a requirement to be in his army.
His reign had Rome in terror so much so that they Outlawed Judaism. Oddly enough that is about the time that Authors, anonymous and otherwise, started writing about a new religion.....
Coincidence?

So the Bar-Kochba stories were told/recorded by the Jews, right? To be honest if the Old Testament tells us anything, the Jews were very fond of embellishment & propaganda. If there aren't many outside sources saying much about Bar-Kochba it might be a myth/legend. Let me preach on it:

"What we do know about him is that he was a person of tremendous physical strength. He was able to uproot a tree while riding a horse. He was able to hold back a Roman catapult." And every member of his 350,000-member army could uproot trees while riding? Color me skeptical.

This reminds me of the old SNL skits with a bunch of drunken salesmen talking about legendary salesman "BILL BRASKY - weighed about 350 stood about 6 feet 8!" and the tall tales of Bill Brasky would get taller and taller the drunker they got.

 

[oldfella1962]

Okay Ruger #3 I finished the links you provided. Interesting insight into how early Christianity was affecting the Romans and society in general in the region. It does show that Christians were dedicated to their beliefs, of which I have no doubt or Christianity would have fizzled out. But bottom-line other religions are filled with followers of strong, unfailing dedication. Cults pop up all the time even today where the members - and often leaders - are willing to face death. And it's usually the promise of a wonderful after-life that seals the deal. Just sayin'

 

[brutally honest]

He could uproot trees from horseback ...

You take this as gospel yet laugh at Sampson.

 

[brutally honest]

Lots of religions are old. Many still have followers with beliefs. Do they hold more clout than any other?

Who are these "some" historians?

Ask the Messianic Jews. I just posted the link.

 

[brutally honest]

A small % of Jews were convinced.

... just as Jesus said.

 

[brutally honest]

Jesus did not fulfill the prophecy in the Torah.

Then why did any Jews believe? Why did 3,000 sign up on Day 1? Why was the entire early church Jewish?

 

[brutally honest]

Christianity was on a decline, hanging on by a thread until Rome adopted it, tweaked it ...

What doctrines did Rome "tweak"?

 

[bullethead]

You take this as gospel yet laugh at Sampson.

I do not take anything as gospel. Just relaying examples of Jewish history to show you your one messiah candidate is not unique.

 

[bullethead]

Ask the Messianic Jews. I just posted the link.

Exactly

 

[bullethead]

Then why did any Jews believe? Why did 3,000 sign up on Day 1? Why was the entire early church Jewish?

If you are paying attention I already told you that like with many other religions there are people who are always looking for someone or something new. In Jewish history there are examples of people, great numbers of people in the hundreds of thousands regarding Bar-Kochba, that are eager to follow the next messiah candidate. Bar-Kochba came onto the scene only 40 years after Jesus and had a 365,000 man army and the support of the Jewish people.

Don't you love how accurate Acts is with numbers? Exactly 3,000 people in 1 day. Outside sources do not corroborate those claims...just scripture. 500 saw the ascension too, don't forget that!

 

[bullethead]

What doctrines did Rome "tweak"?

The various councils met many times to adopt doctrine. You must know of them.

 

[oldfella1962]

You take this as gospel yet laugh at Sampson.

I don't think anybody is taking this (nor samson) as gospel. I would like to see what the dude ACTUALLY did to inspire the legend of uprooting trees on horseback. Technically a six-inch sapling is still a tree, so who knows?

 

[brutally honest]

The various councils met many times to adopt doctrine. You must know of them.

Of course I do. What doctrines did they "adopt"?

 

[bullethead]

Of course I do. What doctrines did they "adopt"?

There were three versions of the Nicene Creed: the original Nicene, the enlarged Constantinopolitan, and the Latin version.[1] The first creed was adopted in A.D. 325 by a Council held at Nicaea.[2] The council was attended by 318 eastern bishops, except for Hosius who was from Spain.[3] The creed refutes the heresy of the Arian Controversy and was designed to settle the controversy. The Arian doctrine taught that Jesus was not God. He was only a created being. Arius taught that Christ was a created being and was not of the same essence or substance (heteroousios) of the Father.

 

[bullethead]

Praying to the Virgin Mary is The Doctrine of Assumption. That was adopted from Pagan rituals and called De-facto Idolatry.

The Church adopted a few Pagan practices and made them doctrine.

 

[WaltL1]

Praying to the Virgin Mary is The Doctrine of Assumption. That was adopted from Pagan rituals and called De-facto Idolatry.

The Church adopted a few Pagan practices and made them doctrine.

Cant count how many times Ive said this one -
Hail Mary, full of grace.
The Lord is with thee.
Blessed art thou amongst women,
and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus.
Holy Mary, Mother of God,
pray for us sinners,
now and at the hour of our death.
Amen.

 

[brutally honest]

The Arian doctrine taught that Jesus was not God. He was only a created being. Arius taught that Christ was a created being and was not of the same essence or substance (heteroousios) of the Father.

Yes, Arius - one priest in Alexandria - taught that. The church met at Nicea to refute him because that was not what the church had always taught.

No new doctrine came from Nicea. They were opposing Arius’ new doctrine.

 

[brutally honest]

Praying to the Virgin Mary is The Doctrine of Assumption. That was adopted ...

… in 1950.

Lots of non-Catholics would take issue with that. Martin Luther took issue with far less. I’m talking about the ancient councils. What doctrines did they change?

Just tell me what Constantine changed. He seems to be at the root of this.

 

[gordon 2]

Praying to the Virgin Mary is The Doctrine of Assumption. That was adopted from Pagan rituals and called De-facto Idolatry.

The Church adopted a few Pagan practices and made them doctrine.

I have read this many times, but according to my research the prayer comes progressively out from the Church's understanding that Mary is of special "merits" because the bible says so and that because of these "merits" Mary can intercede for others if anyone can due to the Christian understanding by which prayers are answered which is due her relationship with the God. The formalizing of this is recent to the Church and dubious as to it being the copy of Pagan ritual(s). Rather it comes out of the realization within Christianity of what it means to be Christian in this life and its implications in the life to come.

And once more, the intercession of the saints was a feature of the Jewish cult and derived internally and not derived from the pagans especially.