.224 Valkyrie or .22 Creedmoor

[pacecars]

I am considering a fast .22 for use with heavy bullets and was originally thinking about the Creedmoor in a bolt gun but came across a good deal on an AR in the Valkyrie from PSA so now I have to make a decision. Anyone shooting either round want to weigh in?

https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-20-rifle-length-224-valkyrie-1-6-5-stainless-steel-upper-w-bcg-vortex-scope-psa-ar-15-complete-moe-ept-stealth-lower.html

 

[chase870]

how heavy a bullet

 

[pacecars]

69-85 and the long Hammer bullets

 

[Big7]

I am considering a fast .22 for use with heavy bullets and was originally thinking about the Creedmoor in a bolt gun but came across a good deal on an AR in the Valkyrie from PSA so now I have to make a decision. Anyone shooting either round want to weigh in?

https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-20-rifle-length-224-valkyrie-1-6-5-stainless-steel-upper-w-bcg-vortex-scope-psa-ar-15-complete-moe-ept-stealth-lower.html

Word has it Creed rifles are few and expensive.

Word also has it Creed brass is non- existent and super expensive.

If I were doing something like that, I would do a 22- 250 Rem with 1:7 twist. 1:7.5 even.

That will get you to 90 - 95 grain otm or tipped match.

I looked at doing a 22 Creed when they first came out. MAKE SURE YOU GOT BRASS.

22- 250 rem with a longer throat and the above twist will get it done for the cost of an extra barrel.

 

[SC Hunter]

@Big7 hit some good points. I've never felt under gunned with my 22-250's. They kill perfectly fine, but, a 22 creedmoor does sound fun slinging heavy bullets. I'm of no help here because I'd say get the creedmoor and give us on game reports.

 

[sleepr71]

I second the faster twist 22-250 option,or…just use a .243..

 

[Big7]

@Big7 hit some good points. I've never felt under gunned with my 22-250's. They kill perfectly fine, but, a 22 creedmoor does sound fun slinging heavy bullets. I'm of no help here because I'd say get the creedmoor and give us on game reports.

And you need more DOPE with a fast twist 22- 250 or Creed.

The 22- 250 Remington came about before laser range finders when speed and the flattest possible trajectories were very desirable.
The idea was to go from point A to point B as straight as possible. The way to do that with any moving object is to increase the speed.

The Creed came at a time when a very predictable flight path was made possible due to range finders and chronographs.
It's possible to calculate where the projectile will be at any given distance along it's trajectory, therefore, it's about dialing clicks.

I'm a numbers guy.
The Creed is technically better in the matrix but IMO, it's not as practical as the 22- 250.

Is it worth the xtra money? That depends on your perspective. To me, it's not.

It's anyone's right to buy what they want.

 

[menhadenman]

22 Creed might be the better option of the two (with Hornady support), but it also is a barrel burner. I’ll also say that PSA barrels can be hit and miss in my experience with about 12-15 of them. I’d lean towards a bolt gun to shoot far and accurate.

I have one in 223 Wylde with a 1/7 White Oak barrel that we’ve shot 77s out to 800 with good success. The 223 brass is so much easier to get your hands on and cheaper to shoot overall.

I did almost buy a Valkyrie tho! And 6.5 CM brass is plentiful so don’t know if it’ll be all that hard to neck it down.

 

[sleepr71]

I’m all for getting new “toys”…but honestly..what will this do,that a .243 won’t do? Same/similar weight projectiles…

 

[Dub]

I am considering a fast .22 for use with heavy bullets and was originally thinking about the Creedmoor in a bolt gun but came across a good deal on an AR in the Valkyrie from PSA so now I have to make a decision. Anyone shooting either round want to weigh in?

https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-20-rifle-length-224-valkyrie-1-6-5-stainless-steel-upper-w-bcg-vortex-scope-psa-ar-15-complete-moe-ept-stealth-lower.html

I may well be wrong, but I don’t think the Valkyrie really comes into its own unless it is pushed hard. That would lend itself better to a bolt action.

.22 Creed is one that I am ignorant about. I wonder what the average barrel life is like on those.
1,000rds ?
1,500rds ?
2,000rds?



.223 & 5.56mm cover my needs in that bore size. AR-15 configs.
Hunting, target & self defense.

.243 Win bolt action has me covered on smaller bore deer rifle.

6GT bolt action has me covered on small bore target fun.

6.5Creed & .308Win bolt actions in both hunting & target configs. M1A’s & AR-10 in .308Win/7.62x51.

 

[Big7]

22 Creed might be the better option of the two (with Hornady support), but it also is a barrel burner. I’ll also say that PSA barrels can be hit and miss in my experience with about 12-15 of them. I’d lean towards a bolt gun to shoot far and accurate.

I have one in 223 Wylde with a 1/7 White Oak barrel that we’ve shot 77s out to 800 with good success. The 223 brass is so much easier to get your hands on and cheaper to shoot overall.

I did almost buy a Valkyrie tho! And 6.5 CM brass is plentiful so don’t know if it’ll be all that hard to neck it down.

I've been thinking about a Wylde modification to a 223 bolt gun so I have a question since you've already got experience with it.

I'm wondering when a Smith does the modification, on an existing barrel, is the chamber reamed to the 5.56's more generous tolerance or do they just ream the throat and not mess with the 223 chamber? I don't want a 5.56 chamber. 223 is all this one will ever shoot.

Thanks.

 

[menhadenman]

I've been thinking about a Wylde modification to a 223 bolt gun so I have a question since you've already got experience with it.

I'm wondering when a Smith does the modification, on an existing barrel, is the chamber reamed to the 5.56's more generous tolerance or do they just ream the throat and not mess with the 223 chamber? I don't want a 5.56 chamber. 223 is all this one will ever shoot.

Thanks.

@Jester896 sure knows a thing or two so he might be a good follow up if I miss something here.

The key difference between .223, .223 Wylde, and 5.56 is in the throat and chamber dimensions. The .223 has a shorter throat with a tighter diameter, optimized for accuracy but limited to lower pressures. The 5.56 features a longer, wider throat to handle higher pressures but may sacrifice some accuracy. It also has looser chamber dimensions to ensure reliable feeding and extraction in military applications. The .223 Wylde is a compromise, with a throat longer than .223 but tighter than 5.56, and it matches the looser chamber dimensions of 5.56 for reliability.

Modification from a gunsmith would probably only entail reaming the chamber, adjusting headspace, and polish/test. It' supposedly a straightforward modification for a good smith.

All that said, I'm not sure if I would modify a 223 bolt gun for the sake of going to 223W (unless it's a poor shooter)... and it might even be easier to just rebarrel depending on what rifle it is. Some really good barrel options out there at great prices anymore.

 

[Jester896]

if all you are shooting in a .223 chamber is .223, I am not sure why one would want to change it to a Wylde chamber. Longer leads aren't necessary for a .223 since in most cases it is a 1:12 twist and only shooting up to 55gr short bullets. If you are shooting over 62gr to 77gr the longer lead may be needed if the twist will stabilize the bullet...If I understand the question correctly.

 

[Liberty]

I have decided that unless a few million rifles made in a particular caliber are floating around, I don’t want one with the exception of readily forming brass from mass available sources. I’d go for the 22 Creed due to easy forming from
6.5 manbun. The Valkyrie will probably be extinct in a few years.

 

[Jester896]

The Valkyrie will probably be extinct in a few years.

there are plenty of 6.8SPC cases out there too. I probably have 1K and don't even have a 6.8...might need to make one.

 

[Liberty]

there are plenty of 6.8SPC cases out there too. I probably have 1K and don't even have a 6.8...might need to make one.

You are right about that, didn’t even think about the 6.8. I usually don’t get too many reloads in autoloaders though compared to bolt guns where I can bump the shoulder and anneal if worth the trouble.

 

[Jester896]

I do it to 6.8 when I load them. I think you could also use .30 Remington

 

[Big7]

if all you are shooting in a .223 chamber is .223, I am not sure why one would want to change it to a Wylde chamber. Longer leads aren't necessary for a .223 since in most cases it is a 1:12 twist and only shooting up to 55gr short bullets. If you are shooting over 62gr to 77gr the longer lead may be needed if the twist will stabilize the bullet...If I understand the question correctly.

The goal, if it even makes sense money wise, would be to have the tighter tolerance 223 chamber with a longer throat in order to shoot longer, heavier boolits.

My bolt gun has a cold hammer forged 20 inch barrel with a 5 groove, 1:8 right hand twist.

Heaviest I've shot to date are factory 223 Armscor 62gr FMJ. They shoot decent for store bought.

@Jester896 sure knows a thing or two so he might be a good follow up if I miss something here.

The key difference between .223, .223 Wylde, and 5.56 is in the throat and chamber dimensions. The .223 has a shorter throat with a tighter diameter, optimized for accuracy but limited to lower pressures. The 5.56 features a longer, wider throat to handle higher pressures but may sacrifice some accuracy. It also has looser chamber dimensions to ensure reliable feeding and extraction in military applications. The .223 Wylde is a compromise, with a throat longer than .223 but tighter than 5.56, and it matches the looser chamber dimensions of 5.56 for reliability.

Modification from a gunsmith would probably only entail reaming the chamber, adjusting headspace, and polish/test. It' supposedly a straightforward modification for a good smith.

All that said, I'm not sure if I would modify a 223 bolt gun for the sake of going to 223W (unless it's a poor shooter)... and it might even be easier to just rebarrel depending on what rifle it is. Some really good barrel options out there at great prices anymore.

Guess I'd do it myself and just lengthen the throat and keep the 223 diameter dimension.
I took an unfired 5.56 back and traded even just to have the tighter chamber .

Wouldn't mind having a 22 inch barrel for the 223 and at least 24 for the 243.

Probably would try some longer boolits right on out almost to the lands and let the rest stick down into case a little. I'd like to see what the 1:8 could do even if I lose a little case capacity and powder- just for fun.

 

[menhadenman]

Twist Rate Stability Calculator

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[Jester896]

the external case dimensions on 5.56 and .223 Remington are the same. The military 5.56 case is just thicker and has less volume. If it has a 1:8 twist it should shoot up to 77gr. I think it might shoot 68 or 69gr best.