Adam's rib - quick question for Biblical literalists

WaltL1

Senior Member
Depends on what’s sick: my body or my soul.

That said, modern medicine is amazing, but it has limits. There are many physicians, but there is only one Great Physician.
That ^ sounds great and all, but........
Theres lots and lots of folks who pray their brains out over a loved one laying in a hospital bed to no avail.
It appears everything has limits.
 

Ruger#3

RAMBLIN ADMIN
Staff member
That ^ sounds great and all, but........
Theres lots and lots of folks who pray their brains out over a loved one laying in a hospital bed to no avail.
It appears everything has limits.

Exactly right, my wife, RN, deals with it all the time. Try as they might someone is too sick and they go from active care to comfort care. In our Christian world you pray for their comfort in the end of this life and find comfort that there is a spiritual life to follow.
 

WaltL1

Senior Member
Exactly right, my wife, RN, deals with it all the time. Try as they might someone is too sick and they go from active care to comfort care. In our Christian world you pray for their comfort in the end of this life and find comfort that there is a spiritual life to follow.
Exactly right, my wife, RN, deals with it all the time. Try as they might someone is too sick and they go from active care to comfort care.
Thats one job I dont think I could take, seeing that kind of thing all the time.
But I sure am glad that there are people who can.
 

Ruger#3

RAMBLIN ADMIN
Staff member
Thats one job I dont think I could take, seeing that kind of thing all the time.
But I sure am glad that there are people who can.

Agreed, takes special people.
 

bullethead

Of the hard cast variety
Are you saying humans shouldn’t have choices?
I am not saying that.
I am asking the people who say humans have Free Will about what it means when God says that he hardens humans hearts at his Will.
 

oldfella1962

Senior Member
Are you saying humans shouldn’t have choices?

IMHO sane adult humans absolutely should have choices in many situations but not all. In some rare situations, human instinct takes over and there is no cognizant input required. But our choices should always consider the risk vs reward factor and our responsibilities & obligations to the other humans in our vicinity & society in general.
 

oldfella1962

Senior Member
I’ve never heard of anyone refusing to get MMR or smallpox vaccines for any reason, COVID or otherwise. Maybe they’re out there. If so, they’re nuts.

Yes I agree they are nuts, but within their subculture they are the true believers and everyone else is nuts. This doesn't apply just to "religion" of course. There are nuts out there who have malnourished kids because they don't believe in eating protein, or whatever.
 

oldfella1962

Senior Member
Depends on what’s sick: my body or my soul.

That said, modern medicine is amazing, but it has limits. There are many physicians, but there is only one Great Physician.

That may be your belief, and if praying to the Great Physician helps keep your spirits up (no pun intended) that's okay. I'm just saying medical science will CONSTANTLY improve but statistically intercessory prayer works no more than 50 percent of the time (a coin toss) and controlled studies have proven this - you can research it.
Generally, people who believe that intercessory prayer works are only counting the "hits" and not the "misses" over a significant timespan. Those are just the facts.
 

oldfella1962

Senior Member
That ^ sounds great and all, but........
Theres lots and lots of folks who pray their brains out over a loved one laying in a hospital bed to no avail.
It appears everything has limits.

It's literally a coin toss - and sometimes the prayed over have a less favorable outcome than what probability would predict. Study results vary, but in no case was intercessory prayer significantly better than not praying at all.
 

SLY22

Useles Member !
Technically God's Spirit should be hovering over everything, everywhere, at all times. It should be hovering over the waters right now, hovering over our keyboards and hovering over a child as her "uncle" enters her room and locks the door behind him.
If God can make matter he can alter DNA but for some reason he either can't or won't stop an "uncle".
Mysterious Ways....

The "uncle" has a choice.
 

SLY22

Useles Member !
That may be your belief, and if praying to the Great Physician helps keep your spirits up (no pun intended) that's okay. I'm just saying medical science will CONSTANTLY improve but statistically intercessory prayer works no more than 50 percent of the time (a coin toss) and controlled studies have proven this - you can research it.
Generally, people who believe that intercessory prayer works are only counting the "hits" and not the "misses" over a significant timespan. Those are just the facts.

Everyone is going to die. No matter how much prayer or how much medicine one takes , no one is getting out alive.
 

oldfella1962

Senior Member
Exactly right, my wife, RN, deals with it all the time. Try as they might someone is too sick and they go from active care to comfort care. In our Christian world you pray for their comfort in the end of this life and find comfort that there is a spiritual life to follow.

So the prayer "works" every time whether it's in this world or the next? So no matter what the believers can't lose. IMHO a guaranteed "win" situation sounds too good to be true. :unsure: As long as the medical professionals are giving 100 percent to their efforts to cure people in this world, they can believe whatever they want to, on or off the job.
 

bullethead

Of the hard cast variety
Life and beliefs are odd. When my Mother In Law was sick we prayed for her to get better. When she deteriorated before our eyes we prayed for her to die quickly. When she didn't die quickly we prayed that she wouldn't agonize in the pain. When she agonized in the pain we prayed that her faith would get her where she thought she belonged.
0 fer 3 unanswered. 1 unknowable.
 

oldfella1962

Senior Member
The "uncle" has a choice.

Yep - he chooses to act upon his deviant urges. Sidenote pedos are almost NEVER - EVER - rehabilitated and should be put down like a dog with rabies. The minute the jury says "guilty" the court should get the body bag ready. Just my 2 cents.
 

Ruger#3

RAMBLIN ADMIN
Staff member
So the prayer "works" every time whether it's in this world or the next? So no matter what the believers can't lose. IMHO a guaranteed "win" situation sounds too good to be true. :unsure: As long as the medical professionals are giving 100 percent to their efforts to cure people in this world, they can believe whatever they want to, on or off the job.

Depends on the definition of “works.” There’s time we don’t have understanding of God’s plan and may not be what we want. Praying for compassion and guidance vs a specific outcome.
 

bullethead

Of the hard cast variety
No pun intended, I'm sure.
Correct.
What I am saying is that Scripture clearly states that God wants us all to love him and spend eternity with him and all we have to do is accept Jesus as our Lord and Savior.
Then scripture clearly states that God by his very Will purposely will harden a person and prevent them from ever being capable of accepting Jesus and spending eternity with God. That also means God has chosen for those people to spend eternity in suffering flames for no other reason than he Wills it. Punishing those people for a choice he has made for them.
If a God will do that there is no telling what he also Wills people to do. Abusing children, murder, etc is nothing compared to condemning someone to Hades or all of eternity just because God decided that he wanted to.
Shrugging it off as "we don't know God's plan" is passing the buck and also admitting again that if God has a plan Free Will is a smoke screen. If God has a plan what happens is meant to happen. If God's Plan can be altered then why call him God?
 
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