Adam's rib - quick question for Biblical literalists

bullethead

Of the hard cast variety
Yes, Arius - one priest in Alexandria - taught that. The church met at Nicea to refute him because that was not what the church had always taught.

No new doctrine came from Nicea. They were opposing Arius’ new doctrine.
The first creed was adopted in A.D. 325 by a Council held at Nicaea.
Apparently Arius and whoever else under him spread around the empire did not get the universal memo or direct instructions from God and therefore taught how they understood it to be. That went on until the Council made the doctrine official, IE: adopted it.
 

bullethead

Of the hard cast variety

bullethead

Of the hard cast variety
I have read this many times, but according to my research the prayer comes progressively out from the Church's understanding that Mary is of special "merits" because the bible says so and that because of these "merits" Mary can intercede for others if anyone can due to the Christian understanding by which prayers are answered which is due her relationship with the God. The formalizing of this is recent to the Church and dubious as to it being the copy of Pagan ritual(s). Rather it comes out of the realization within Christianity of what it means to be Christian in this life and its implications in the life to come.

And once more, the intercession of the saints was a feature of the Jewish cult and derived internally and not derived from the pagans especially.
https://bigthink.com/the-present/pagan-roots-of-catholicism/
 

bullethead

Of the hard cast variety

brutally honest

Senior Member
Instead of me posting,then having to go back and explain, then having to copy/paste.
Here you go..
https://reformation.org/6-changes-of-constantine.html

:rolleyes:

What the heck is "reformation.org"? I don't know because you can't even access the home page. Let's briefly look at his points (responses in blue):


1.C onstantine changed the place of the Resurrection of Christ. Even if true (doubtful), so what?

2. Constantine changed the time of the Resurrection of Christ. Even if true (doubtful), so what?

3. Constantine changed the time of the birth of Christ. Even if true (doubtful), so what?

4. Constantine changed the Scriptural method of becoming a Christian. Nonsense. No more repentance? No more baptism? This is what you'd expect from an anti-Catholic site.

5. Constantine changed the relationship of Christianity to the state. If by "changed the relationship", he means "no longer slaughtering them", that's correct.

6.Constantine changed the headquarters from Jerusalem to Rome or Constantinople. There were five great church "sees" of the ancient world: Rome, Jerusalem, Alexandria, Antioch and Constantinople. Since Rome and Constantinople were the Western and Eastern capitals of the empire, it made sense that they would be important church hubs. This did not diminish the importance of the others.
 
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bullethead

Of the hard cast variety
Work in process

Constantine changed the place of the Resurrection of Christ.2.Constantine changed the time of the Resurrection of Christ. 3.Constantine changed the time of the birth of Christ. 4.Constantine changed the Scriptural method of becoming a Christian. 5. Constantine changed the relationship of Christianity to the state. 6.Constantine changed the headquarters from Jerusalem to Rome or Constantinople.
Now mind you I know that Constantine didn't personally decide the changes just like Trump didn't pack his own moving boxes. I get it.
Under Constantine's rule he got the council together that decided these things.
 

bullethead

Of the hard cast variety
Work in process

Constantine changed the place of the Resurrection of Christ.2.Constantine changed the time of the Resurrection of Christ. 3.Constantine changed the time of the birth of Christ. 4.Constantine changed the Scriptural method of becoming a Christian. 5. Constantine changed the relationship of Christianity to the state. 6.Constantine changed the headquarters from Jerusalem to Rome or Constantinople.
There has been a lot more unaddressed or unacknowledged that gets skipped over.
I am still waiting on the refutation of the Aish link that points out why Jesus did not fulfill prophecy.
Saying that Paul, Pete and gang got some Jews to believe that Jesus did just doesn't cut it.
 

bullethead

Of the hard cast variety
This is a United Pentecostal Church site. They are "oneness" pentecostals (Arians.)

I'm not surprised that modern-day Arians are critical of the Council of Nicea.
Well who is going to criticize it, a fan?
It's more about refuting the points than shooting the messenger.
 

bullethead

Of the hard cast variety
As Mr. Peterman said on Seinfeld, "Well, that certainly is a lot of words."

I'm not sure exactly what I'm supposed to get out of all that, other than the RCC has changed its doctrines of Mary over the years. I'm sure the Copts, Orthodox, Anglican and Protestant churches would agree that the RCC has changed.
All that is in response to your "in 1950" comment about Mary. It shows the practice of praying to her and worship was done early on.
 

brutally honest

Senior Member
All that is in response to your "in 1950" comment about Mary. It shows the practice of praying to her and worship was done early on.

What happened in 1950 is different. It was definitely a "step up".

She was always given honor ("venerated") in the past. Even most of the Reformers believed she was "ever virgin".
 

bullethead

Of the hard cast variety
:rolleyes:

What the heck is "reformation.org"? I don't know because you can't even access the home page. Let's briefly look at his points (responses in blue):


1.C onstantine changed the place of the Resurrection of Christ. Even if true (doubtful), so what?

2. Constantine changed the time of the Resurrection of Christ. Even if true (doubtful), so what?

3. Constantine changed the time of the birth of Christ. Even if true (doubtful), so what?

4. Constantine changed the Scriptural method of becoming a Christian. Nonsense. No more repentance? No more baptism? This is what you'd expect from an anti-Catholic site.

5. Constantine changed the relationship of Christianity to the state. If by "changed the relationship", he means "no longer slaughtering them", that's correct.

6.Constantine changed the headquarters from Jerusalem to Rome or Constantinople. There were five great church "sees" of the ancient world: Rome, Jerusalem, Alexandria, Antioch and Constantinople. Since Rome and Constantinople were the Western and Eastern capitals of the empire, it made sense that they would be important church hubs. This did not diminish the importance of the others.
1,2, and 3., So if changing the times and locations of places of events from their original dates and locations in order to better suit the Church is common practice, changing other things is not a stretch.
4. I dont think you read that one correctly.
5. The Catholic Church still slaughtered non Catholic Christians into the 19th century. Might be wise to look into that.
6. Where was the first church located?
 
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