Adam's rib - quick question for Biblical literalists

brutally honest

Senior Member
"According to one of the Messiah legends"
Concrete for sure

It doesn't bother me in the least that most Jews don't accept Jesus as Messiah. I would expect nothing else.

OTOH, it kills you that Brown and others like him won't "fall in line". They are living refutations of what you're clinging to. They are the crucifix, and you are Dracula.
 

Spotlite

Resident Homesteader
Well who is going to criticize it, a fan?
It's more about refuting the points than shooting the messenger.
Actually; if one studied denominations as part of their entire research, the UPC is critical of the “councils” because according to them they are the original church born in Acts. The “council” was the first to start leaving and altering the doctrine given in Acts and reformed their own doctrine mixed between what was given in thry NT and the old OT - hanging on to the priesthood of a man instead of Jesus. The rest of the denominations broke off out of the Catholic Church - there’s a founding date given for them.

“Pentecost comes from a Jewish harvest festival called Shavuot. The apostles were celebrating this festival when the Holy Spirit descended on them. It sounded like a very strong wind, and it looked like tongues of fire”

A couple of critical points - they don’t baptize the same as the disciples baptized in Acts. The same councils credited for “giving us our known Bible” left in Jesus being our Mediator / calling no man “Father” while interpreting confession as asking a “Father” in a box to forgive you and praying to Mary.

Don’t shoot the messenger……..it’s just stuff easily found when studying denominations.
 
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bullethead

Of the hard cast variety
It doesn't bother me in the least that most Jews don't accept Jesus as Messiah. I would expect nothing else.

OTOH, it kills you that Brown and others like him won't "fall in line". They are living refutations of what you're clinging to. They are the crucifix, and you are Dracula.
It kills me? Statements like that reaffirm me that some people live in their own world and make up their own facts when reality eludes them.
I personally could not care less about who does or thinks what. I like the discussion and presentations to be discussed. Brown and his others like him who do not take into account the requirements did not get done and rely on will happen eventually do not surprise me. I would expect nothing else.
The messiah dies of natural causes.
The messiah rebuilds the Temple.
The messiah unites all Jews.
World peace is had through the Messiah.
If Jesus did any of those let me and then Charlie Brown know.
 
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bullethead

Of the hard cast variety
Actually; if one studied denominations as part of their entire research, the UPC is critical of the “councils” because according to them they are the original church born in Acts. The “council” was the first to start leaving and altering the doctrine given in Acts and reformed their own doctrine mixed between what was given in thry NT and the old OT - hanging on to the priesthood of a man instead of Jesus. The rest of the denominations broke off out of the Catholic Church - there’s a founding date given for them.

“Pentecost comes from a Jewish harvest festival called Shavuot. The apostles were celebrating this festival when the Holy Spirit descended on them. It sounded like a very strong wind, and it looked like tongues of fire”

A couple of critical points - they don’t baptize the same as the disciples baptized in Acts. The same councils credited for “giving us our known Bible” left in Jesus being our Mediator / calling no man “Father” while interpreting confession as asking a “Father” in a box to forgive you and praying to Mary.

Don’t shoot the messenger……..it’s just stuff easily found when studying denominations.
So in your many other words UPC is NOT a FAN of the Roman Catholic council and is CRITICIZING the RCC?
Which is what I said, based off of my study of Denominations.
You made a LONG summary out of my short one. Thank you. Maybe Brutally Honest will understand it a little more now.
 

brutally honest

Senior Member
Lets pretend that you've read what you are using. Give me the cliffnotes.

Haven’t read any of them. Not my thing. (I prefer church history. I read a book on Catholicism recently, just finished an “intro to Orthodoxy” book, and have a fat, juicy book on the Reformation in the on-deck circle.)

However, it is your thing. So, bon appetit! :)
 

bullethead

Of the hard cast variety
Haven’t read any of them. Not my thing. (I prefer church history. I read a book on Catholicism recently, just finished an “intro to Orthodoxy” book, and have a fat, juicy book on the Reformation in the on-deck circle.)

However, it is your thing. So, bon appetit! :)
Unless Michael L Brown has informed us that Jesus died of old age and passed on the Title to his Son. Has shown us that the Temple was rebuilt by Jesus. Writes with factual examples that all Jews have come home and are united. And throws a few nightly news segments in there that World Peace was achieved under the Messiahship of Jesus.....
Paying for fiction that is used as examples (which the provider has not read himself and literally has no idea what the author says) is actually NOT my thing.
 

bullethead

Of the hard cast variety
I gave you the “cliff notes” in post 355. You sarcastically dismissed them in post 358.
I read them.
My reply wasn't sarcasm.
The author is dismissing written Torah requirements and prophecy and replacing it with "according to legends".

None of it, or anything that you've posted by others and have avoided directly answering yourself explains why the requirements in #363 and #367 absolutely have not been met by Jesus. There is is no wait 2000+ years clause. The Messiah will do those things while alive. They will happen in his lifetime. Period.
If and when those things happen, which I highly doubt they will, then whoever is responsible for them happening will be the Messiah that Judaism awaits.

Did those things happen by Jesus and in his lifetime?
Did Jesus die of old age?
If the answer to all or even one is No then the Messiah requirements are not met.
They aren't my rules. The rules didn't change. It is really very simple. It is harder to know the rules/requirements, ignore them because there is just no evidence that proves your case, and continue on as if twisting the rules is an acceptable mulligan.
I am open to seeing someone, anyone, bringing world peace. I really wish that if there is a god I could know which one it is. I am all for a believable religion around that god or gods. I just don't have faith that anything currently proposed by man has got it even close.
If a god wants me to know it, it would know exactly how to contact me and convince me. My number isnt hard to find and especially not for a god.

But, this back and forth, posting examples that take novels to read which ultimately cannot prove prophecy has been fulfilled by one man is ridiculous. Look around you, you are a living example in a world where these prophetic proofs did not happen. I can't give you any more real time proof that those links are bunk than that. If the world is at peace please let me know.
 

Spotlite

Resident Homesteader
So in your many other words UPC is NOT a FAN of the Roman Catholic council and is CRITICIZING the RCC?
Which is what I said, based off of my study of Denominations.
You made a LONG summary out of my short one. Thank you. Maybe Brutally Honest will understand it a little more now.
You’re correct. They’re not a fan of the Roman Catholic Church / council. I think BH understands, but he might be looking for something a little different. I haven’t kept up so I’m just wild guessing.
 

Artfuldodger

Senior Member
This is a United Pentecostal Church site. They are "oneness" pentecostals (Arians.)

I'm not surprised that modern-day Arians are critical of the Council of Nicea.
I'm not sure Oneness is the same as Arianism. Oneness believe that the one God, incarnate as the Son. That before that point, the Son only existed in Word.
Oneness believe in the Trinity, that God is all three but not at the same time. That he operates as all three personas, just not at the same time.
 

bullethead

Of the hard cast variety
You’re correct. They’re not a fan of the Roman Catholic Church / council. I think BH understands, but he might be looking for something a little different. I haven’t kept up so I’m just wild guessing.
Your initial post explaining it was directed at me (you quoted me) and in a way that seemed like you were issuing me a correction and telling me that if I researched more about denominations I would know this.
My initial reply that said " well who is going to criticize it, a "fan" was based on UPC not being fans of the RCC because BrutallyHonest was knocking my UPC source.
Maybe you intended it to be In Addition to my reply to Brutallyhonest ....I wasn't sure.
 

Spotlite

Resident Homesteader
Your initial post explaining it was directed at me (you quoted me) and in a way that seemed like you were issuing me a correction and telling me that if I researched more about denominations I would know this.
My initial reply that said " well who is going to criticize it, a "fan" was based on UPC not being fans of the RCC because BrutallyHonest was knocking my UPC source.
Maybe you intended it to be In Addition to my reply to Brutallyhonest ....I wasn't sure.
Yes Sir, I was agreeing with you with additional info. No correction intended for you. My apologies if it came across that way. :cheers:
 

660griz

Senior Member
Sorry for the interruption or if this has been brought up already but, little known fact about Adam and the rib.
Adam was hanging around the garden of Eden feeling very lonely... God asked him, "What's wrong with you?" Adam said he didn't have anyone to talk to. God said that He was going to make Adam a companion and that it would be a woman.
He said, "This pretty lady will gather food for you, she will cook for you, and when you discover clothing, she will wash it for you. She will always agree with every decision you make and she will not nag you, and will always be the first to admit she was wrong when you've had a disagreement. She will praise you! She will bear your children. and never ask you to get up in the middle of the night to take care of them. She will never have a headache and will freely give you love and passion whenever you need it."
Adam asked God, "What will a woman like this cost?"
God replied, "An arm and a leg."
Then Adam asked, "What can I get for a rib?"
 

oldfella1962

Senior Member
Sorry for the interruption or if this has been brought up already but, little known fact about Adam and the rib.
Adam was hanging around the garden of Eden feeling very lonely... God asked him, "What's wrong with you?" Adam said he didn't have anyone to talk to. God said that He was going to make Adam a companion and that it would be a woman.
He said, "This pretty lady will gather food for you, she will cook for you, and when you discover clothing, she will wash it for you. She will always agree with every decision you make and she will not nag you, and will always be the first to admit she was wrong when you've had a disagreement. She will praise you! She will bear your children. and never ask you to get up in the middle of the night to take care of them. She will never have a headache and will freely give you love and passion whenever you need it."
Adam asked God, "What will a woman like this cost?"
God replied, "An arm and a leg."
Then Adam asked, "What can I get for a rib?"

HA! (y)
 

atlashunter

Senior Member
^ (y)
Alot of times we try to nail down believers to a concrete answer. Which sometimes is alot like herding cats. We do appreciate your honest participation.

 
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