Adultery is NEVER OK

[Israel]

99.999999% of the people that ask this question do so to diminish the act of adultery by alluding to it being as commonplace as lust, and then quickly point out that being as such we are all equally guilty. Doing so we make ourselves feel better about ourselves......all in the same pot, so-to-speak.

What almost no one, and I mean NO ONE, ever bothers themselves to ask is "why" is lust as bad as adultery, and vice versa. I wonder if anyone here knows the answer, because it's a much more dire proposition than such a minimalistic, superficial, rationalization would suggest.

Do you mean NO ONE and you mean NO ONE?

As in root from which corruption inevitably must grow?
(and lust is not limited to sexual concupiscence)

 

[Redbow]

The Bible says if you look at a woman to lust you have already committed adultery with her in your heart. You don't have to have physical contact.

 

[NE GA Pappy]

Agreed for the most part, but why make people to act like they do, then light them on fire for acting exactly like you designed them to? Sounds pretty sadistic to me. I don't buy it.

Oh, and I agree completely that adultery is wrong, btw. It's not the man or the woman by themselves who is at fault, either- it takes both.

Did you ever know that your kid was going to screw up, but let him go ahead and make the mistake?

Was that sadistic?

 

[1eyefishing]

Does God forgive us for our sins or does he send off send us off to Hades for them? I get confused with all the double talk...
If God is omniscient and omnipotent, he knows we are going to make the choices that we do. To me, that implies we don't have the free will to do what we want anyway.

 

[NE GA Pappy]

Does God forgive us for our sins or does he send off send us off to Hades for them? I get confused with all the double talk...

The answer to that question is totally dependent on your actions. If you accept Christ as Lord and Savior, then your sins are forgiven. If you don't, no, they are not forgiven. Totally your choice.

If God is omniscient and omnipotent, he knows we are going to make the choices that we do. To me, that implies we don't have the free will to do what we want anyway.

Just because he knows what you will choose, doesn't take away your ability to choose. I have a grandchild that I know hates chocolate with a passion. If I offer her a chocolate candy or a peppermint, I already know what she will choose. However, if one day she says she wants the chocolate, I will let her have it.

Foreknowledge does not limit your ability to choose any more than ignorance of your choice hinders your ability to choose.

 

[1eyefishing]

I can accept the 1st part of that answer it's 1st part of that answer as that is mybelief also. But the 2nd part hurts my braian logically.
If the Lord knows which choice we will make, we are limited to that choice. That denies free will.
Are you saying we could make the choice he didn't know we would make. That would make him not omniscient.

 

[SemperFiDawg]

Agreed for the most part, but why make people to act like they do, then light them on fire for acting exactly like you designed them to? Sounds pretty sadistic to me. I don't buy it.

Oh, and I agree completely that adultery is wrong, btw. It's not the man or the woman by themselves who is at fault, either- it takes both.

Agreed for the most part, but why make people to act like they do,

Again, speaking from MY experience, nobody every made me act like I did. In fact, in my experience, it's a very, very rare individual that acts out of anything but self interest. Adam and Eve had literally everything provided for them. It wasn't as if they ate the fruit out of hunger, it was selfishness/self-seeking. The way I see life is very simple: I either do MY will or God's will. They don't alwaaaaays conflict, but in the things that matter they do and too often I've made the selfish/self-serving choice.

then light them on fire for acting exactly like you designed them to?

Come on NC, this is getting a little over the top. You don't, and never have, struck me as the type who blames all his circumstances on someone else, a victim, so unless you really deep down believe everything everyone does is God's perfect will and we're all just pre-programmed automatons carrying out our programs then the your statement is a straw-man. I don't think you believe that. I certainly don't believe it. It flies in the face of reality, but let's put that aside and dig under that altogether.

What's the difference between God destroying someone by "light(ing) them on fire" and that person destroying themselves. Take for example a heroin addict.....it's killing people left and right these days. In your opinion what's worse: God "lighting them on fire" or them destroying themselves and in the process, everyone who loves and cares about them" The end is the same. One just has more casualties.

And you know all that kind of side tracks me from where I was going with my initial train of thought which is this: You can't fix perfect. Even God, He can't make perfection.....more perfect. Things have to be broken/wrong in order to be corrected or fixed. Likewise miracles don't exist in perfection. They can't. Miracles only exist when something/someone is broken and can be fixed. So even if you make the argument that we are "pre-programmed" to fail and have no free-will, then I would say that something "had" to be broken for God to demonstrate his love for us which he does through miracles. There was no other way.

Adam and Eve proved living in absolute perfection didn't demonstrate His love to them. They had to make that mistake, suffer from it, and have God come in and rescue them from it to actually comprehend and feeeeel His love. I had to make the mistakes I've made in my life, suffer the consequences of those mistakes, and have God come in and do the miraculous in order to comprehend His love and commitment to me......and believe me, there's certainly NOTHING special about me, but if He done it for me, I have to believe He will do it for anybody.

 

[SemperFiDawg]

Do you mean NO ONE and you mean NO ONE?

As in root from which corruption inevitably must grow?
(and lust is not limited to sexual concupiscence)

 

[SemperFiDawg]

Does God forgive us for our sins or does he send off send us off to Hades for them? I get confused with all the double talk...
If God is omniscient and omnipotent, he knows we are going to make the choices that we do. To me, that implies we don't have the free will to do what we want anyway.

Is that what you think or is God just putting words in your mouth?God knowing what's going to happen and having the power to stop it doesn't mean we don't have free will. Knowing that my son is going to walk out in traffic and grabbing him to keep him from doing it doesn't mean he never had the will to do so. It's the 'will/intent and not the act that we possess.

Just a side note, but for all that believe we have no free-will, I ask this, "If a person harms your loved one, where do you get off feeling hurt or angry? Why any emotion at all?" If you believe that everything is pre-ordained, natural disasters, the murders, rapes, child abuse, all the pain and suffering is just God's divine will, why do we experience any emotion at all? Isn't it our revulsion to these things that betrays this belief, literally screaming out to our conscious that something is wrong/broken/unjust? I guess it's a good thing our raw emotions betray our lofty philosophical notions and point us to reality and truth or the entire earth would be nothing but a mass of pontificating zombies.

 

[1eyefishing]

Is that what you think or is God just putting words in your mouth?God knowing what's going to happen and having the power to stop it doesn't mean we don't have free will. Knowing that my son is going to walk out in traffic and grabbing him to keep him from doing it doesn't mean he never had the will to do so. It's the 'will/intent and not the act that we possess.

Just a side note, but for all that believe we have no free-will, I ask this, "If a person harms your loved one, where do you get off feeling hurt or angry? Why any emotion at all?" If you believe that everything is pre-ordained, natural disasters, the murders, rapes, child abuse, all the pain and suffering is just God's divine will, why do we experience any emotion at all? Isn't it our revulsion to these things that betrays this belief, literally screaming out to our conscious that something is wrong/broken/unjust? I guess it's a good thing our raw emotions betray our lofty philosophical notions and point us to reality and truth or the entire earth would be nothing but a mass of pontificating zombies.

I still don't get it. Are you saying we have the free will to make the choice other than the one God knows we will make? If we are going to make the bad choice and he knows we will, why is he going to punish it for us. He made us to make that choice if he is omnipotent and omniscient.

 

[NE GA Pappy]

I can accept the 1st part of that answer it's 1st part of that answer as that is mybelief also. But the 2nd part hurts my braian logically.
If the Lord knows which choice we will make, we are limited to that choice. That denies free will.
Are you saying we could make the choice he didn't know we would make. That would make him not omniscient.

no, I am saying that just because He knows in advance what you will choose, doesn't negate your ability to choose.

It is like choosing a route to drive to a destination. You can go the short way with less traffic, or you can go the much longer route with heavy traffic. Your wife knows which way you are going to choose to drive, but she asks anyway. When you tell her your choice, her knowledge that you would go that way didn't hinder you at all from making the other choice if you wanted to. She just knew you where going to drive the shorter route with less traffic. You could have driven the longer route. It was a choice you could have made.

So, her knowledge of knowing before she even asked which route you would take didn't mean you couldn't have gone the longer way

 

[NE GA Pappy]

I still don't get it. Are you saying we have the free will to make the choice other than the one God knows we will make? If we are going to make the bad choice and he knows we will, why is he going to punish it for us. He made us to make that choice if he is omnipotent and omniscient.

He is not responsible for your bad choices. You talk like you think God is going to smack someone up side the head and force them into a bad decision. That is not what is happening at all.

God lays out 2 choices for you. Life or Death. He has told you 'choose you this day who you will serve. Choose life'

However, even if He knows you are going to make a choice that is not good for you, He still offers you life. That is not a God that is forcing you into a bad decision. That is a loving, merciful God that even though He knows you are gonna screw up, graciously offers you life anyway.

God isn't punishing anyone by offering an alternative.

If you offered someone $100 dollars or $5.00, you know that person is going to choose $100. But are you punishing them if they choose the lesser amount? No, it was their decision.

 

[NE GA Pappy]

I ask this, "If a person harms your loved one, where do you get off feeling hurt or angry? Why any emotion at all?" If you believe that everything is pre-ordained, natural disasters, the murders, rapes, child abuse, all the pain and suffering is just God's divine will, why do we experience any emotion at all?

which is what a lot of Hindu teaches. That is why you have people living in such dire squalor, and no one will reach out to help them. They believe that person is being punished for something in a past life, and if they intervene, the person will have to suffer more in a future life.

 

[gemcgrew]

Just a side note, but for all that believe we have no free-will, I ask this, "If a person harms your loved one, where do you get off feeling hurt or angry? Why any emotion at all?" If you believe that everything is pre-ordained, natural disasters, the murders, rapes, child abuse, all the pain and suffering is just God's divine will, why do we experience any emotion at all?

Our emotions are according to God's divine will.

 

[1eyefishing]

I absolutely believe in free will. I'm just saying that if God knows which choice we are going to make between 2, then we obviously don't have the ability to make the other one.
Since I believe I have the choice to decide between the 2, I don't see where anyone is going to know which choice every single person is going to make in every single instance.
Furthermore I don't see how anyone could know WHAT God knows. Like its first hand knowledge or something.

 

[SemperFiDawg]

I still don't get it. Are you saying we have the free will to make the choice other than the one God knows we will make? If we are going to make the bad choice and he knows we will, why is he going to punish it for us. He made us to make that choice if he is omnipotent and omniscient.

God fore knowing that you are going to make bad choices doesn’t make Him culpable for your choices. They ARE yourrrr choices. I can’t understand how you reason that God MADE you do anything. We are created in His image as Beings:Beings by definition have the ability to to think, WILL and act. The Bible is crystal clear in that each man is responsible for his actions/ will.

 

[gemcgrew]

I absolutely believe in free will.

Then your belief is absolute and you are not free to believe differently.

 

[1eyefishing]

Somehow, yall are getting me wrong. I never said God-made me make any choices. You're just saying if he knows what choice I'm going to make then I don't have any choice. As far as I know, I don't believe God has made me do anything. I'm arguing for free will, not against it.

 

[1eyefishing]

I will say that I believe that 1 thing God has possibly made me do is live this life on this rock. Beyond that I'm not sure of much.

 

[Lukikus2]

The Bible says if you look at a woman to lust you have already committed adultery with her in your heart. You don't have to have physical contact.

They are ignoring you......