Adultery is NEVER OK

[NE GA Pappy]

They are ignoring you......

not ignoring, just nothing to add. Scripture pretty well sums that whole thought process up in just a few words

 

[Artfuldodger]

I absolutely believe in free will. I'm just saying that if God knows which choice we are going to make between 2, then we obviously don't have the ability to make the other one.
Since I believe I have the choice to decide between the 2, I don't see where anyone is going to know which choice every single person is going to make in every single instance.
Furthermore I don't see how anyone could know WHAT God knows. Like its first hand knowledge or something.

I understand what you are saying, the Word was with God before Creation. The plan was already there. God had already seen or caused what was gonna go down in the Garden. It matters not whether He saw it or allowed it. He knew the outcome before hand, the Word was with God, already slain.

Another example, if I go to my closet to choose between my red and blue shirt, God already knew my choice. How could I then choose, at that point, the other color?

The reality is that since God has seen and knows our choices, free will is the same as predestination.

Let's look at who God saves. If God chooses who he sends to the Son or has already seen who chooses the Son, it's the same thing. No one can be saved who God has already seen rejecting him.

 

[Artfuldodger]

Did you ever know that your kid was going to screw up, but let him go ahead and make the mistake?

Was that sadistic?

If you had five kids drowning, would you try or at least wish to save all five or just the ones you knew that you were gonna save before they were drowning?

 

[NE GA Pappy]

If you had five kids drowning, would you try or at least wish to save all five or just the ones you knew that you were gonna save before they were drowning?

wrong question....

God's will is that none would perish, but all would come to repentance.

I really don't see how God knowing ahead what you will choose limits your choice. Just because He knows, doesn't mean the choice is not there for you to make. It's not like He takes the choice away. You still have to choose. God doesn't sit in heaven with an angel marking down on paper, saying 'Innie, Minnie, Minee, Mo, I choose this one, and off to **** you go.'

It is YOUR choice. YOUR decision. God just happens to sit outside the time/space barrier that we dwell in, and sees the future just as you see the past. He knows what you chose before the choice was set before you because for God, the future is already the past.

God was before time began. He created time, so He is not bound by time. For God, next year happened last week, and last week happens today. There is no barrier. God is the ultimate time traveler. That is why He can be everywhere all at once. Your tomorrow already exists in Gods knowledge because God has already been there, done that. Along with your next week, your next month, next year and eternity.

 

[SemperFiDawg]

They are ignoring you......

No Sir. It's already been addressed earlier.

 

[SemperFiDawg]

I absolutely believe in free will. I'm just saying that if God knows which choice we are going to make between 2, then we obviously don't have the ability to make the other one.

How does God knowing what choice you are going to make mean you have no choice. It's still your choice. God knew Adam and Eve would eat of the forbidden fruit, but it was still THEIR choice to do so. Me knowing you are going to speed in your vehicle doesn't make me culpable for your decision to do so. That's what I'm NOT understanding about your reasoning: How does God knowing what choice you will make, make him culpable for your decision. It's still you're decision. You decided.

 

[SemperFiDawg]

I really don't see how God knowing ahead what you will choose limits your choice. Just because He knows, doesn't mean the choice is not there for you to make.

Yeah. That's the line of thinking I can't seem to grasp either. It flies in the face of reason and is totally refuted by scripture.

 

[SemperFiDawg]

19 “Yet you ask, ‘Why does the son not share the guilt of his father?’ Since the son has done what is just and right and has been careful to keep all my decrees, he will surely live. 20 The one who sins is the one who will die. The child will not share the guilt of the parent, nor will the parent share the guilt of the child. The righteousness of the righteous will be credited to them, and the wickedness of the wicked will be charged against them.
21 “But if a wicked person turns away from all the sins they have committed and keeps all my decrees and does what is just and right, that person will surely live; they will not die. 22 None of the offenses they have committed will be remembered against them. Because of the righteous things they have done, they will live. 23 Do I take any pleasure in the death of the wicked? declares the Sovereign Lord. Rather, am I not pleased when they turn from their ways and live?
24 “But if a righteous person turns from their righteousness and commits sin and does the same detestable things the wicked person does, will they live? None of the righteous things that person has done will be remembered. Because of the unfaithfulness they are guilty of and because of the sins they have committed, they will die.
25 “Yet you say, ‘The way of the Lord is not just.’ Hear, you Israelites: Is my way unjust? Is it not your ways that are unjust? 26 If a righteous person turns from their righteousness and commits sin, they will die for it; because of the sin they have committed they will die. 27 But if a wicked person turns away from the wickedness they have committed and does what is just and right, they will save their life. 28 Because they consider all the offenses they have committed and turn away from them, that person will surely live; they will not die. 29 Yet the Israelites say, ‘The way of the Lord is not just.’ Are my ways unjust, people of Israel? Is it not your ways that are unjust?
30 “Therefore, you Israelites, I will judge each of you according to your own ways, declares the Sovereign Lord. Repent! Turn away from all your offenses; then sin will not be your downfall. 31 Rid yourselves of all the offenses you have committed, and get a new heart and a new spirit. Why will you die, people of Israel? 32 For I take no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Sovereign Lord. Repent and live

Regarding free-will: it doesn't get much clearer than this.

 

[Spotlite]

wrong question....

God's will is that none would perish, but all would come to repentance.

I really don't see how God knowing ahead what you will choose limits your choice. Just because He knows, doesn't mean the choice is not there for you to make. It's not like He takes the choice away. You still have to choose. God doesn't sit in heaven with an angel marking down on paper, saying 'Innie, Minnie, Minee, Mo, I choose this one, and off to **** you go.'

It is YOUR choice. YOUR decision. God just happens to sit outside the time/space barrier that we dwell in, and sees the future just as you see the past. He knows what you chose before the choice was set before you because for God, the future is already the past.

God was before time began. He created time, so He is not bound by time. For God, next year happened last week, and last week happens today. There is no barrier. God is the ultimate time traveler. That is why He can be everywhere all at once. Your tomorrow already exists in Gods knowledge because God has already been there, done that. Along with your next week, your next month, next year and eternity.

I agree!!

“And if it seem evil unto you to serve the Lord, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.”


“I call heaven and earth to record this day against you that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing. Therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live”

 

[SemperFiDawg]

I agree!!

“And if it seem evil unto you to serve the Lord, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.”


“I call heaven and earth to record this day against you that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing. Therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live”

That word poses a big problem to a select few who are strict predeterminism.

 

[Spotlite]

That word poses a big problem to a select few who are strict predeterminism.

The problem with predeterminism is this -
The Lord told David that IF he stayed in the city of Keilah the people of that city would hand him over to Saul. David did not stay in Keilah and Saul did not capture him.

Jesus said that the cities of Tyre, Sidon, Sodom and Gomorrah “would” have repented IF had they had seen Jesus' miracles. He knew what would have happened if the miracles would have been performed in those cities.

In each of these instances God showed his knowledge of potential events. Although these events did not happen they would have happened had circumstances been different.


The problem with predestination is this -

We are all predestined, chosen and selected - “ALL”, every man is created in His image. He chose man to commune with. Unfortunately, deception exist. A space for repentance is given for a reason.

When all scripture is used as should be, they’d learn that an all knowing God is just omniscient, not pre programming or predesigning some to fail or picking the ones to burn. To push that doctrine requires many scriptures to be overlooked.

 

[Artfuldodger]

I think what we may see as a problem is not what God sees as a problem. If I had foreknowledge that my son was going to have a wreck and die on his way to camping, I would stop him from going.
If God does it, it would be for His glory and His plan. He did know who would choose Him and who wouldn't. He did know that Adam would introduce sin into the world and therefore send many to eternal death. God did know that Israel would follow through with Rome to let him send His only Son to die for our sins.
To us having foreknowledge seems terrible but to God, it's just part of His job description.

 

[LittleDrummerBoy]

Am I the only one out here who is meeting more and more men who are involved in ongoing adultery who consider themselves Christians?

 

[Spotlite]

Am I the only one out here who is meeting more and more men who are involved in ongoing adultery who consider themselves Christians?

No you’re not. But it’s more than ongoing adultery that folks are involved “ongoing” who consider themselves Christians.

 

[NE GA Pappy]

Am I the only one out here who is meeting more and more men who are involved in ongoing adultery who consider themselves Christians?

and more and more women.

and more and more people are fornicating with no thoughts of it being wrong, unwise and unhealthy. We have raised a generation that proclaims ' If it feels good, do it' and ' Why not, everyone else is doing it' . They have no thoughts of the perils that they subject themselves to every time they jump in a bed.

I tried my best to warn my sons and daughters about these traps. Some listened. Some didn't. One in particular now understands that because they have a child together, they are tied together until either they pass away, or the child passes away. They can no longer live an independent life. Everything they wish to do has to pass the tests of....

1. is it good for the child

2. do I have the child during the time I wish to do this

3. if I don't have the child, will the other parent allow me to have them

4. what happens when the other spoiled parent changes their mind at the last moment and their selfishness hurts the child.

 

[gemcgrew]

Am I the only one out here who is meeting more and more men who are involved in ongoing adultery who consider themselves Christians?

I see sinners everywhere. Especially when I am by myself.

 

[gemcgrew]

That word poses a big problem to a select few who are strict predeterminism.

No problem at all. The select few that worship the Creator are not deterred by the select many that worship the creature.

 

[Artfuldodger]

The problem with predeterminism is this -
The Lord told David that IF he stayed in the city of Keilah the people of that city would hand him over to Saul. David did not stay in Keilah and Saul did not capture him.

Jesus said that the cities of Tyre, Sidon, Sodom and Gomorrah “would” have repented IF had they had seen Jesus' miracles. He knew what would have happened if the miracles would have been performed in those cities.

In each of these instances God showed his knowledge of potential events. Although these events did not happen they would have happened had circumstances been different.


The problem with predestination is this -

We are all predestined, chosen and selected - “ALL”, every man is created in His image. He chose man to commune with. Unfortunately, deception exist. A space for repentance is given for a reason.

When all scripture is used as should be, they’d learn that an all knowing God is just omniscient, not pre programming or predesigning some to fail or picking the ones to burn. To push that doctrine requires many scriptures to be overlooked.

Would you say Romans 9-11 shows more Free will or God's will? Starting with “Yet I have loved Jacob but Esau I have hated. Then in Romans 11, a remnant was chosen by grace and the rest blinded. God will have mercy on whom He will have mercy. Reading all three chapters sounds like a well orchestrated plan by God to blind the Jews and make his plan come about.
Maybe after the Cross, God's plan was finished and he no longer needed predestination and switched at that point to Free will and happenstance.

 

[BeerThirty]

Am I the only one out here who is meeting more and more men who are involved in ongoing adultery who consider themselves Christians?

I mean, technically you can be a sinner and a Christian. A sin is a sin. The sins deemed severe by the holy roller crowd are no greater in the eyes of God than the sins those same holy rollers deem as petty. And no Christian is perfect.

 

[Artfuldodger]

I mean, technically you can be a sinner and a Christian. A sin is a sin. The sins deemed severe by the holy roller crowd are no greater in the eyes of God than the sins those same holy rollers deem as petty. And no Christian is perfect.

One of the reasons for mentioning lust is for that very reason. I don't have trouble not committing adultery, gambling, fighting, over drinking, stealing, etc.

The sins that I suffer from and are just as bad are sins of the heart. Hate, anger, not forgiving, lust, pride, greed, etc.